Immigration to the USA throughout history

"Not reported" doesn't answer what ancestry they are, it just says they don't strongly associate with that ancestry. Hell, "American" says the same thing (it also says that you're statistically more likely to be a southerner). That doesn't answer whether German ancestry is the largest or not.

Speaking anecdotally, I know people with last names like "Miller" who were originally German (last name Mueller).

Speaking anecdotally, I know people with last names like "Miller" who were originally German (last name Mueller).

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Miller, Meller and Mueller could as well be Polish people. Miller and Millar are also common surnames in Scotland.

My mother's maiden name is Meller. One of Poland's former Prime Ministers is Leszek Miller.

Here is a good website using which you can check distribution of surnames in several countries:

Mueller in Poland: http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/mueller.html
Miller in Poland: http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/miller.html
Meller in Poland: http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/meller.html

German version of this website is verwandt.de: http://www.verwandt.de/karten/

German surname doesn't mean you are German, Polish surname doesn't necessarily mean you consider yourself Polish.

For example among the top current leaders of German minority in Poland are: Gerhard Bartodziej, Herbert Czaja and Herbert Hupka.

In case of Mr Bartodziej he has a Polish surname and a German first name. But this name also has a Polish form - Gerard.

My late grandfather was Henryk, if he was Heinrich you would think he was German, as he had a "German" surname.

To summ up - ancestry reports aren't perfect, but they are still a much better source than looking at surnames.

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One of Poland's former Prime Ministers is Leszek Miller. (...) Miller and Millar are also common surnames in Scotland.

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I don't know what is the origin of Polish Miller surname and family, but it could as well be Scottish not German:

There was a considerable Scottish settlement in Poland:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/josephd.ross/index.html

The number of Scots in Poland which Lithgow quotes (30,000 families) is accepted in principle by T. A. Fischer

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On the other hand, a lot of Millers can also be found today in Southern Germany (check the map from verwandt.de). So hard to say.

And when it comes to surname Meller - it seems to be much more common in Belgium (Flanders) and in the Netherlands than in Germany.

But all of my Meller relatives' ancestors identified themselves as ethnic Poles as long time ago as the oldest of them can remember.

So I don't know where did this surname come from. I suspect so called Hollanders (Olędrzy), who settled in Poland during the Early Modern Era.

Oh my god, shut up. No one is a Pole. No one cares.

You're going to ignore all the evidence and push your assbackwards Polish determinism on America. Get out of here with that crap.

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Luckymoose said:

Oh my god, shut up. No one is a Pole. No one cares.

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I'm Polish! Spiritually I mean. We are all Poles.

Luckymoose said:

Oh my god, shut up. No one is a Pole. No one cares.

You're going to ignore all the evidence and push your assbackwards Polish determinism on America. Get out of here with that crap.

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This. In most cases, they're German. And ultimately, nobody cares anymore.

German first ancestry was reported by 30,165,672 people in 2000.

Out of 281,421,906 total population of the USA in 2000.

Non-Latino White population numbered ca. 200,000,000 in 2000.

While 30 million is a lot, it is nowhere near "most cases".

"Not reported" doesn't answer what ancestry they are

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Going by this logic - if someone reports German ancestry it doesn't mean he or she really has it.

Thus I suggest DNA testing to check how large percent of matches you have in Germany.

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BTW:

Among the "not reported" group most people are very likely not even from Europe.

Genetics and ethnicity are not the same thing.

Genetics can tell 1) where did your ancestors come from and 2) to which populations they are related.

Louis XXIV claimed that among "not reported" may also be "Germans", so he apparently means genes.

Anyone can be among "not reported" group, but most of them are probably not even Non-Latino Whites.

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Of course thoroughly researching family records and history is still much more reliable than DNA.

But for obvious reasons getting your DNA tested for ancestry is an easier and faster method.

I don't mean genes. I mean ancestry - the country or identity their ancestors identified as when they came to this country. If you want to argue that this is a uniquely (or mostly) American concept, that's fine. It's particularly weird with Germans because we're talking pre-unification (unlike Italians who came mostly post-unification).

In my experience, a lot of Millers have German origin and changed their name. Sure, some could be Scottish, some could (theoretically) be Polish. But that doesn't change my point.

It's particularly weird with Germans because we're talking pre-unification

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Most of Germans came post-unification.

This is what a user from Germany posted on another forum (link: http://historum.com/american-history/11698-american-ancestry-10.html).

Number of immigrants from Germany (post-unification years highlighted):

Beorna said:

1820-1829: 5.753 Personen
1830-1839: 124.726 Personen
1840-1849: 385.434 Personen
1850-1859: 976.072 Personen
1860-1870: 723.734 Personen
1870-1879: 751.769 Personen
1880-1889: 1.445.181 Personen
1890-1899: 579.072 Personen
1900-1909: 328.722 Personen
1910-1919: 174.227 Personen
1920-1929: 386.634 Personen
1930-1939: 119.107 Personen
1940-1949: 117.506 Personen
1950-1959: 576.905 Personen
1960-1969: 209.616 Personen
1970: 10.632 Personen

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He did not explain the exact nature of this data, though. And now he is no longer posting on that forum so I can't ask him.

But it was later discussed that this is the number of immigrants from German states (?), not the number of German immigrants.

Immigrants from Galicia (Austria-Hungary), Prussia (Germany) and Russia included for example Poles:

JoeGlidden said:

I find it interesting that Polish Immigrants are not listed in the first chart. With Poland having been divided into three sectors, most immigrants listed themselves as German-Poles, Austrian-Poles or Russian-Poles instead of Polish-Germans, etc. etc. The numbers presented, especially for Germans in the 1880s-90s, I can guarantee, are largely Polish immigrants. My Polish ancestors immigrated in the 1880s, all from Prussia and listed themselves as German-Poles in government records. It makes it hard to differentiate how many of those people truly are German, Austrian or Russian. The inclusion of Poles might explain why numbers seem to double or triple in the later decades.

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So not all immigrants from Germany were Germans.

But on the other hand, some immigrants from other regions were Germans.

For example Volga Germans from Russia.

Here you can also find data on geographic distribution of immigrants, rather than ethnic composition:

http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/immigration-statistics.htm

Anyway - geographic distribution of immigrants is not going to answer questions about their ethnicity / identity.

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Minorities in the German Empire during the late 19th century (soon after the unification):

Domen said:

Of course thoroughly researching family records and history is still much more reliable than DNA.

But for obvious reasons getting your DNA tested for ancestry is an easier and faster method.

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It's not that it's more reliable, it's that it is actually capable of giving you the information you want. Genetics can only tell you the broad region your ancestors came from, but it doesn't tell you anything about their ethnic identity. At best, there may be correlation, but that's not going to be particularly reliable.

Genetics can only tell you the broad region your ancestors came from, but it doesn't tell you anything about their ethnic identity.

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I agree.

It can also tell you to which of modern populations your ancestors were most closely related.

At best, there may be correlation, but that's not going to be particularly reliable.

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Of course it is not going to determine what was their ethnic identity.

But it will give you some sort of probablity / correlation.

Wacław Kruszka, "Historya Polska w Ameryce", Vol. I, Milwaukee 1905, page 65 - estimated the number of Poles in the USA in 1900 as:

http://liturgicalcenter.org/media//pdfy/Polonia/Polonia/POL_1.pdf

- 650,000 "German" Poles
- 580,000 "Russian" Poles
- 200,000 "Austrian" Poles
- 20,000 "Unknown" Poles
- 450,000 - 550,000 Poles born in the US

In total he estimated 1,9 - 2,0 million Poles, 810 Polish settlements, 517 Polish churches.

Total U.S. population in 1900 was 76 million, of whom 12 million Roman Catholics.

BTW - I'm surprised by low proportion of Poles from Austria (Galicia) among the total. I thought it was more.

Perhaps emigration from Austrian Galicia (and Austrian Silesia) greatly intensified only after year 1900.

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Kruszka collected data for his 1905 book from various local authorities in the U.S. - for example:

CITY OF BUFFALO
Mayor’s Office
Erastus C. Knight, Mayor1.
Frank W. Hinkley, Secretary.
June 8. 1903
I, Erastus C. Knight, Mayor of the City of Buffalo, County of Erie, State of New York, United States of
America, do hereby certify that, to the best of my knowledge, information and belief, there are now
resident in the said City and the immediate suburbs about seventy thousand (70.000) persons of Polish
natiyity or origin.
Witness my hand and the seal of the sald City of Buffalo this 8-th day of June, 1903.
Erastus C. Knight, Mayor. [L. S.]

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Kruszka cites this letter in his book on page 60 (see the link I posted above).

This still doesn't change the fact that literally NOBODY in the United States cares about Poland, even people with Polish ancestry.

That being said, this thread has turned into an attempt by Domen to convince Americans that they are secretly Polish.

http://www.businessinsider.com/largest-ethnic-groups-in-america-2013-8

Yes I know that most of Americans don't care about anything except for America.

But why are you even saying this? Do you think I started this thread to talk about Polish Americans?

I posted a graph showing ancestry - which did not even mention Poland, but Western Europe, Eastern Europe, Sout-East Asia, etc. - and then you came and started to teach me that "there are not many Polish Americans". This is how the discussion about them started.

Before that I was talking about British ancestry. Now I do agree with Pangur Ban that British ancestry is most common.

Within European ancestries, British ancestry is followed by German and German is followed closely by Irish.

NOBODY in the United States cares about Poland, even people with Polish ancestry.

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Oh really?

So this is why I received a PM from one of Polish-Americans on this forum, asking me to send him traditional Polish Easter recipes ???

Thanks for explanation, because I didn't know what was his motive.

Domen said:

Yes I know that most of Americans don't care about anything except for America.

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But seriously, no. I'm rather enjoying being a sarcastic ass today.

I'm rather enjoying being a sarcastic ass today.

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I sometimes also enjoy this and I'm Polish. So you probably have some Polish ancestry.

Or it might be just a coincidence.

to convince Americans that they are secretly Polish.

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White Eagle! Symbol of Poland. Black Eagle is German - you guys need to fix your CoA.

I'm going to have to defend Domen, here. Polish-Americans are one of the major groups to migrated to the United States, so they're a perfectly legitimate case study in how demographic data is collected. It's hardly tangential to the topic, and if it was anybody else, even somebody with a noted interest in ethnic history- Park posting statistics for Irish-Americans, for example- it would not be objected to.

Domen said:

White Eagle! Symbol of Poland. Black Eagle is German - you guys need to fix your CoA.

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Don't you dare compare the American Bald Eagle to your Eastern European Wimpy Eagles.

Don't you dare compare the American Bald Eagle to your Eastern European Wimpy Eagles.

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Considering how much Anti-Polish sentiment is there in the U.S., I'm surprised 10 million Americans are bold enough to report their Polish ancestry. I wonder how many more Americans also have Polish roots but are so intimidated by Anti-Polish attitudes, that they are reporting some other ancestry (for example German, Russian, etc.) or not reporting any. Surely a lot of Polish-Americans also changed their surnames to English-sounding ones, just like German-Americans during WW1 and WW2. But while Germans only used to be disliked in the USA during WW1 and WW2, Poles have been disliked in the USA for a longer time.