So guess what happened to me today...

Well I was playing in my first game with the new patch as Rome. Everything was going well I had about 5 cities at turn 100 all with pretty good locations. I make a declaration of Friendship with Germany who is to my west, he had been spamming cities and building up his military. Ethiopia to my south was spreading their religion pretty early and it was actually getting quite annoying as he converted 2 of my cities and most of the German cities. Everyone on the continent (England, Egypt, Songhai, Spain) starts to hate on Germany as he steamrolls over Ethiopia; Egypt who has been bi-polar the whole game asks for a dec of friendship one turn after yelling at me for being friends with Germany, I decline as to not anger everyone else.

So about 20 turn latter both Germany and Egypt build up a military around my north and south border. I start to panic as I just spent about 700 gold on religious building in my smaller cities in order to build the grand temple to get rid of the Ethiopian religion. Both DOW on me on the same turn even though I had an active dec of friendship with Germany and had a military about the same size as Egypt. All my defensive(2 for each border) composite bowmen get taken out on the first turn after the DOWs. The northern city gets taken on the second turn of war; meanwhile Germany has about 5 catapults and a handful of Landsknecht and knights. Egypt has 5 war chariots and 3 pikes.

So my question is do Declarations of Frienships mean anything anymore? Germany declared war on me with an active dec; Egypt offered at least twice in the 60 turns before the DOW. Is it just a by chance that Germany is being weird or is this the way the AI is going to be?

Pre-patch Germany was notorious for backstabbing. Have only played one war filled game so can't tell if this is the new normal.

If Germany is near you, they will never be your friend. They will fight you until every single German in their nation is dead.

Warmongers like Attila, Alexander, Bismark and Monty play agressive early games. It's a combination of early UU and warmonger factor.

There's also a 2nd tier of Civs like China, Babylon, Persia who can be very prickly because they have an early UU advantage. China I would almost consider as a closet warmonger. They're not nice Civs to be friends with. America is in the same boat.

Most civs will look for a target around the time they get a UU, so always be weary.

What does this mean? Warmonger next door = guaranteed war.

The only way to avoid it is to get them to war someone else, on the other side.

But warmongers can be good if they're a civ or 2 away. They can be bribed to keep your neighbours busy while you build up and wait for the perfect time to attack someone.

It's is also possibe that egypt asked germany to declare war despite the DoF.

I am always weary of befriending neighbor civs, especially warmongers like Bismark and Alex. They are backstabbing SOBs. They are OK to befriend if they are on the other side of the world though.

Lol . Funny post . They clobbered u really quick bud .

I find that Bismark is always "talking up his game". As soon as I find out he's my neighbour I start planning to take his Capital, before he does it to me.

I've never played for a diplo win, so starting wars doesn't bother me if it's going to help me in the longer term.

bismark is just a stand-in for hitler, expect him to behave much like hitler

Bismark is a backstabber. Its normal. What you saw happened a lot to me and probably everyone. Watch out as well for Rome, Greece, Aztecs, the Huns, and Genghis. Ive had the most experience with Greece and Genghis, but all of these are pretty much the same.

I always try and keep meatshields in front of my ranged units. That way, you don't lose everything in the first strike

I also believe a standard Bismarck has a fairly high deceptive rating, which would make him the backstabbing SOB people describe above.

Wow, and i thought i was safe when signing a declaration of friendship. I havent been backstabbed like that yet. (it happened to me but not after g&k came out, but havent played it that much)

Guess 2 composite bowman issnt much defence

StrategyMaster4 said:

Bismark is a backstabber. Its normal. What you saw happened a lot to me and probably everyone. Watch out as well for Rome, Greece, Aztecs, the Huns, and Genghis. Ive had the most experience with Greece and Genghis, but all of these are pretty much the same.

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Actually Genghis is from my experience and by looking at his flavors, a loyal warmonger. His flavor for loyality is the highest for any warmonger, 7 I think?
And if I remember correctly his flavor to be deceptive is quite low.
So you could ally him without being afraid of being backstabbed.

Yeaa, you probably shouldnt have cbs sitting on the border. Also, you were Rome. Where were the legions? I play Rome all the time, legions crush anything in that era, its kinda a joke.

I've rarely, if ever, seen an AI DOW on me with a DOF. Keep in mind if they denounce you you're not in DOF anymore.

Not sure if this is a post-patch thing.

RohirrimElf said:

Wow, and i thought i was safe when signing a declaration of friendship. I havent been backstabbed like that yet. (it happened to me but not after g&k came out, but havent played it that much)

Guess 2 composite bowman issnt much defence

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You were definitely never safe. Lucky in the past? Probably. No, a couple ranged units against melee as frontline defense is a losing proposition when your enemy gets the first strike.

Smokeybear.

What i like to do is put a few military units on the borders. Preferably just far enough so that the enemy cant kill them at the same time as going to war. When i see a huge blob of units coming my way ill retreat my units from the borders to the citys. Sometimes a scout with 1 sight promotion is a lifesaver and worth the extra 1/2 gold just to get good information about the enemy.

But i must admit i would have been in serious danger multiple of times when i made a declaration of friendship with a neighbor and neglect my military on that front. Because i felt so safe

In my last game against montezuma i made a good defence with babylon. Rush buying a wall just in the nick of time and defending with only 4 archers. I felt like i was safe but a good human player would just attack my weakest point. capture a city and pillage all around the place. Still monty attacked with like 6/7 jaquars 2/3 archers and 1 horse archer unit (forgot the name of the last unit). and i survived without much harm done to me.

Germany loves war, you can't avoid it.

fuzzatron717 said:

It's is also possible that egypt asked germany to declare war despite the DoF.

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That couldn't of happened, Egypt denounced Germany multiple times during the game leading up to war.

My question was answered though. I probably could of answered it myself but I was to mad at the game to do so; it was probably was one of my best games to that point.

It just surprised me how many siege units the AI had, but its probably a result of the patch.