Jotnar - Giant Civ for Fall from Heaven. Download Here.

A delay on the religion spreading ability is definitely required in my opinion. Or a fairly large Miscast probability. Otherwise you could achieve a fairly easy religious victory by rushing to a religion and then opening your borders and spreading it to all cities in the world as fast as you can run. Could even have workers out laying roads for you while rushing the religion to literally pave the way for victory.

EDIT: Alternativel, you could make the spell to spread the religion be bInBordersOnly, making it impossible to spread religion outside of your own cities. Or have an autoacquire promotion for the Religious Unit which offsets the hefty Miscast chance while in your own borders (so 100% chance to spread in your own city, but only a 20% chance to spread in another player's city). This would require that the spread religion ability is the only spell they can cast though, otherwise the hefty bonus against miscasting might cause funky results elsewhere (not that many spells right now HAVE much of a miscast chance....)


Hrm... you could also make it spread the state religion of the owner of the city. That allows them to spread religions in other player's cities without being able to force a personal religious victory. But it'd be wierd for an Order following Jotnar to wander through Sheiam lands spreading AV.
 
xienwolf said:
A delay on the religion spreading ability is definitely required in my opinion. Or a fairly large Miscast probability. Otherwise you could achieve a fairly easy religious victory by rushing to a religion and then opening your borders and spreading it to all cities in the world as fast as you can run. Could even have workers out laying roads for you while rushing the religion to literally pave the way for victory.

EDIT: Alternativel, you could make the spell to spread the religion be bInBordersOnly, making it impossible to spread religion outside of your own cities. Or have an autoacquire promotion for the Religious Unit which offsets the hefty Miscast chance while in your own borders (so 100% chance to spread in your own city, but only a 20% chance to spread in another player's city). This would require that the spread religion ability is the only spell they can cast though, otherwise the hefty bonus against miscasting might cause funky results elsewhere (not that many spells right now HAVE much of a miscast chance....)

Hrm... you could also make it spread the state religion of the owner of the city. That allows them to spread religions in other player's cities without being able to force a personal religious victory. But it'd be wierd for an Order following Jotnar to wander through Sheiam lands spreading AV.
Click to expand...

How about two spells, one with bInBordersOnly and the other with ehm.. bOutsideBordersOnly (does that exist?) one of them have no miscast chance and the other one have a 30% miscast + a 1% chance of loosing caster?

I never do religious victory so I didn't think about that one. Thanks :)

However this unit would not be useful until you have (1) A religion (2) Priesthood (3) An available Jotnar Citizen and (4) The coins to upgrade him.
 
I am also considering adding a spell similar to Magisters 'Challange' to my Troll units. They can fight another Troll for experience. Due to the fact that Jotnar units are finite, and cannot just be built it would work something like this.

A. Unit one challanges Unit two and looses three (or five) turns of activity.
B. Battle is rolled, the loosing unit have 10% chance to die, otherwise looses 90% health.
C. Winning unit gains some xp.

Remember that other civs, would simply build a new unit in less then three/five turns if lost. And its no XP farming machine that can be compared to the vampire's city grinding.

Perhaps.. only to Cyclops.. to give them something unique?
 
yeah, that would be nice indeed. I believe there's nothing about how trolls behave in FFH lore, so I guess you're free to handle them as you see fit :D
 
Tarquelne said:
Are Cyclops a type of Troll? I think it sounds perfect for Trolls. (Any of them.)
Click to expand...

Trolls are the recon line. However trolls replace scout --> hunter --> beastmaster where cyclops replace the ranger and stand outside the 'promotion' line. So the Cyclops really should get something extra, because you can never promote them up further to Beastmaster/Troll Elder.

Basically you can go Jotnar Citizen -> Cyclops and that is that, of course they age and grows stronger as all other giants.

But yes. It felt 'trollish'. Trolls for me are a sub-species of primitive giants, so is Cyclops?
 
Eh, there are different types of Cyclops. If you want the Greco-Roman style, yeah, they're pretty much dumb man-eating freaks. The Norse version is nearly an equal with the gods, and is often much more intelligent... But still not a really good fit. However, since most of the Gods in the game are based, at least loosely, off of Celtic mythology (Dagda, Lugus, Cernunnos, ets), you should probably rely more on their version... The ancient Irish had a myth about a race called the Fomorians, who were usually depicted with one eye, and were intelligent but evil, and ruled with an iron fist. They ruled all of Ireland until the arrival of the Tuatha Dé Danann, who are the celtic gods that were borrowed for the game. The leader of the Fomorians, Balor, was a cyclops whose gaze was powerful enough to kill, but the leader of the Tuatha Dé Danann, Lug(us) shot out his eye with a sling, turning it on the Fomorian army to decimating effect and conquering the island. Of course, the Irish also described the Fomorians as Goat-men at times, or occasionally as one-armed and one-legged as well as one-eyed, but I still think they'd fit the lore better than the Greco-Roman variety.
 
Valkrionn said:
Eh, there are different types of Cyclops. If you want the Greco-Roman style, yeah, they're pretty much dumb man-eating freaks. The Norse version is nearly an equal with the gods, and is often much more intelligent... But still not a really good fit. However, since most of the Gods in the game are based, at least loosely, off of Celtic mythology (Dagda, Lugus, Cernunnos, ets), you should probably rely more on their version... The ancient Irish had a myth about a race called the Fomorians, who were usually depicted with one eye, and were intelligent but evil, and ruled with an iron fist. They ruled all of Ireland until the arrival of the Tuatha Dé Danann, who are the celtic gods that were borrowed for the game. The leader of the Fomorians, Balor, was a cyclops whose gaze was powerful enough to kill, but the leader of the Tuatha Dé Danann, Lug(us) shot out his eye with a sling, turning it on the Fomorian army to decimating effect and conquering the island. Of course, the Irish also described the Fomorians as Goat-men at times, or occasionally as one-armed and one-legged as well as one-eyed, but I still think they'd fit the lore better than the Greco-Roman variety.
Click to expand...

So... you'd really want the cyclops perhaps to be a little more 'evil'. Perhaps with some sort of powers? Intelligent. A little 'Fomorian'?

Right now they are pretty Greco-Roman.

Getting down to the practical stuff. How would you like the cyclops to work?
 
I like the greco-roman style better actually. your idea of challenging each other would then fit them well. and I'd support having them able to consume livestock resource and eat living units to replenish health. (cannibalism?) :D
 
[to_xp]Gekko;7356253 said:
I like the greco-roman style better actually. your idea of challenging each other would then fit them well. and I'd support having them able to consume livestock resource and eat living units to replenish health. (cannibalism?) :D
Click to expand...

Actually, since the Fomorians were tribal it would fit them too.. And it's not so much that they were evil, just more capable of evil. Some were kind, while others demanded food/children as tribute. Rather than idiots, they were more like the Greek Titans, an older set of gods displaced by the new pantheon. Mostly, I just don't want to see a cyclops as the kind of idiots portrayed in the illiad. :)
 
Valkrionn, are you talking about the illiad or the odissey? I can't remember any cyclops in the illiad but I remember very well the one that ulysses blinded :lol:

I've read a philosophy book and one of the issues it talked about was the story of the cyclop in the odissey... basically the cyclop wasn't so dumb, it was just portraited that way by the guy who wrote the epic to make a stark constrast between "them" and "us" ... of course this was just the opinion a random guy, but I think it was a quite interesting interpretation :D
 
[to_xp]Gekko;7357827 said:
Valkrionn, are you talking about the illiad or the odissey? I can't remember any cyclops in the illiad but I remember very well the one that ulysses blinded :lol:

I've read a philosophy book and one of the issues it talked about was the story of the cyclop in the odissey... basically the cyclop wasn't so dumb, it was just portraited that way by the guy who wrote the epic to make a stark constrast between "them" and "us" ... of course this was just the opinion a random guy, but I think it was a quite interesting interpretation :D
Click to expand...

lol oops. Meant the Odyssey. They tend to blur together in my mind...
 
Ok. Currently we are having problems due to a crashed windows and some mystical hardware issues. But hopefully I will have time to do some finishing toutches this weekend. Then its testing to be done.

If Vehem doesn't come out with a 0.34 suited Fall Further in the near future I might cough up a 'middle-version' just to get some testers.
 
Hmm. Various things have delayed this, among other we lost a lot of work in a computer crash. And have kind of been too lazy to redo it until we can base it on a Fall Further for 0.43.

Could perhaps an board administrator toss this thread into the Fall Further section, since me and Vehem agreed on adding Jotnar to FF?
 
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