diplomatic victory has ruined science victory

Dralix said:

Not sure about, but winning by diplo certainly isn't satisfying to me. After I won by diplo once I started disabling it.

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There's your answer, disable the diplo victory.

kamikazees said:

A lot of the VCs really encourage late-game war. You almost need to DOW to protect yourself from Diplo wins if going Science. You almost need to DOW at least your leading cultural rival if you are going Cultural. If you are going Diplo yourself, you may need to DOW if someone is puppeting your CS friends. And of course you need to DOW if you are going Domination...

The days of turtling up and winning are becoming things of the past. But overall, is that a bad thing?

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I don't mind late game war. Problem is that this game is a race and the finish line for diplo simply is much shorter.

Also every game of bnw I have ever played I accidentally won diplo before the VC I was originally going for and I play on to see if I can complete my intended vc before anyone else does.

Js_9001 said:

There's your answer, disable the diplo victory.

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Given the numer of bonuses some Civs have in working with City-states, disabling the Diplomacy VC seriously cripples some popular Civs. In order for this not to feel like quasi-cheating I would like the option to remove Civs from the pool when choosing random opponents.

So, while disabling the Diplomacy VC is definitely a viable option, it's an unsatisfying one... for me at least.

Diplo victory is broken. So I simply disable it. Most of the time I ended up getting most CSs & then it was quite hard to not vote for yourself in the world leader proposal.

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It's definitely broken. I've never managed to win a science victory because I always end up winning a diplo victory instead. While there is the option of abstaining from voting, as someone has mentioned earlier, that feels like clicking, "Wait, just one more turn..." after you have already won.

I don't think pushing back the vote for World Leader is the proper fix for this. That is an artificial limit that unnecessarily delays victory for those who are seeking a diplo victory. A better fix would be this: Only civs should be able to vote for a World Leader, while CS votes would only count towards vetoing a particular candidate. Just like how culture is your defence against another civ's tourism, CSes would become a defence against another civ who is close to winning a diplomatic victory. That way, you can avoid winning a diplo victory yourself while also being able to stop another civ from winning it.

There are threads in the ideas and suggestion forums about this. It's much more than pushing back the voting. My signature has one such thread.

Just Disable Diplomatic Victory truly it is the best thing to do and it's not like in real life we will ever pick one true world leader that's how wars are started *cough* Hitler *cough*.

Matthew. said:

Same thing happens with culture victories. Tough to win by culture before Internet and to get to Internet you need to go through Atomic Era. Last game I tried to win by culture I ended up accidentally winning a diplo victory.

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Not accidentally winning in my case, but it happens quite often that I deliberately give myself less votes to NOT win the diplomatic victory if I'm going for a different victory type.
Yes, diplomatic victory can happen too soon and can be too easy.

Diplomatic victory is definitely the easiest one at the moment and it also happened to me a lot, where I got it before the actual planned victory by accident. However the solution is really easy - make the AI's actually either compete for the CS (peaceful AI's) or conquer them (militaristic AI's). There was a patch in G&K where the AI's were spending lots of gold to get the diplomatic victory and that victory type was the most common one, so it shouldn't be that difficult to program.
The situation OP describes is actually a rare example of how it should work, but unfortunately it does not happen with BNW (at least I haven't seen a single game, where the AI was somewhere near getting diplo win - not even once did they have more than half of required votes). However there are multiple ways of dealing with this - easiest one - steal the AI's in one turn and DoW the previous owner the same turn. Then he either conquers them and loses votes permanently or it will last for the vote itself. Other option would be conquering the CS - but here you need more time and planning, cause if you do multiple conquers in short time you'll be considered warmongoer. And there is always the standard option of allying the CS by yourself from beginning of the game - if you do that correctly there is no way an AI is going to get them for the vote.

I feel like the base number of votes needed for diplo needs to be much higher. Even with Attila puppeting all the CS, no forbidden palace, but world ideology in my favor, I ended up with just enough by accident during the first vote. I was going for domination, so I left one vote off, but I had basically won the game and just needed to finalize it. Even with Egypt and Austria buying CS off me in a desperate bid to stop me, the first time I'd ever seen them do that, they never stood a chance. My gpt was at " you" levels because of full Commerce and my massive puppet empire. I had over 350 gpt without golden age, I could buy anything I wanted. I also had levels of faith, so my faith bought merchants got me even MORE gold and influence.

Well, I guess I was -technically- trying not to go for diplo, but I wasn't doing a very good job.

i had that prob with greece last game, he had 34 votes, diplo needed 33 and i was going for a sci victory. had to take 3 of his CS allies to prevent him from winning after realizing it costs to much to gift them every turn. after that i got xcom and stealth fighters so took his capital for fun. that made me realize it`s time to move from prince to king...

Yeah, like the above poster said, I don't disable the diplo victory because that hinders some AI playstyles. (I seem to always have Alex in my games).

In my opinion, with gold being so plentiful in the game now, there should be more weight towards quests and less weight put into buying allies. Granted, I guess that might make Greece too powerful, I dunno.

Maybe I just need to bite the bullet and bump it up to Emperor and just deal with getting my butt kicked a few times until I get used to that difficulty. lol

I really don't get the number of delegates you need to win? I just realized that it's not half of the total votes, but less. Can anyone tell me, how the number of votes you need to be voted World Leader is calculated?

The base # of votes is fine IF the AI competes for votes.

Simple methods..
1. if there is a delegate leader (near the level)..increase the desire to get CS that the Delegate leader has.

2. if the UN has been founded, increase the tendency to try and get CS allies

3. for onyone that is ahead in victory (controlls most of the capitals or a lot of the delegates, or has many space ship parts, or is influential over many civs).. have a "you are a threat to the balance of power" type diplo modifier

4. When at war with a delegate leader, be more likely to target taking their city states.

5. promote good AI gold usage.

Votes needed to win is
X? + number of currently living civs (major AND minor)

The X is somehow based on the original # of civs and/or CS and some constant.. not sure.