kicking yourself in the foot with religion

If I am interpreting religion correctly - you can choose Goddess of Protection (pantheon), that gives a 30% ranged attack bonus to any city following your religion and you can also choose Just War (enhancer) which gives a 20% combat bonus when you are near (2 tiles?) a city that follows your religion.

So as a founder of Absurdism (I like to change the names), for example, and holding the two beliefs above, I would not want to spread my religion to any city I hope to capture at some point, because it would have a 10% bonus against me (30 bonus against me - 20 bonus I have against it).

You could ask - why would anyone combine these two beliefs? Good question. But there is a potential to have conflicting beliefs.

Pantheon will only spread to your cities, I believe...and it will probably be at the stage where you would only have two or three cities before your pantheon is superseded by your religion.

And there are differences between founder beliefs and enhancer beliefs. Founder will only benefit you as the founder. Enhancer will benefit everyone having that religion, CMIIW.

Just to clarify. While founder beliefs only benefit the founder. Enhancers vary, some benefit all people following the religion while some are founder specific. So for example beliefs like just war & defender of faith only work for founder while cheaper missionaries work for every city following the religion.

If u pick up goddess of protection then u probably go for tall peaceful empire. Still if u love to warmonger & spread ur religion as well, then pick just war as a enhancer so that u can take ur foes down easily & overcome the goddess of protection effect .
Anyway it doesn't make Goddess of protection any worse, other pantheon like desert folklore would also help ur foes to gather faith & find their own religion.

Zenstrive said:

Pantheon will only spread to your cities, I believe...

Click to expand...

The Pantheon (meaning the proto-religion represented by the lightning bolt) will only spread in your borders. Once it becomes a religion, the Pantheon Belief is incorporated into the religion and becomes effectively another Follower belief. So I believe it is quite possible for an enemy to benefit from your Goddess of Protection belief, as it will supplant their own Pantheon belief when the city is converted.

Off topic, but oral tradition with religious texts.
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Stupid truth always resisting simplicity.
-John Green

You are interpreting this incorrectly


Just War
Summary:
+20% strength Combat Strength near enemy cities that follow this religion

AKA if you have the Goddess of Protection you are defending while for Just War you need to be attacking.

Yzman said:

You are interpreting this incorrectly


Just War
Summary:
+20% strength Combat Strength near enemy cities that follow this religion

AKA if you have the Goddess of Protection you are defending while for Just War you need to be attacking.

Click to expand...

But Goddess of Protection is a benefit based on the religion of the city, not who holds the city. So if the city is my enemy but is of my religion, it will get Goddess of Protection.

So my religion is working against me, even though Just War is working for me as the attacker.

Umm yes, that is what happens with follower/pantheon beliefs. Everyone that follows it gets the benefits.

You could argue your religion is "working against you" any time it gives a rival civ a benefit. Which it is in a way, however you are also getting the founder belief benefit which is why you would want it to spread in the first place.

Its a game of give and take.

Yzman said:

Umm yes, that is what happens with follower/pantheon beliefs. Everyone that follows it gets the benefits.

You could argue your religion is "working against you" any time it gives a rival civ a benefit. Which it is in a way, however you are also getting the founder belief benefit which is why you would want it to spread in the first place.

Its a game of give and take.

Click to expand...

I think you might've misunderstood what he's trying to say

He's saying, that because of the Godess of Protection belief, it negates 20% of the Just War bonus in enemy cities. Thus, working against him because the Godess of Protection is negating Just War bonus.

Hmm, yes I do see that. I misunderstood a bit. Do we know for sure that pantheon beliefs become a follower belief or do they get mixed in with founder beliefs?

Basically, has anyone actually tested this?

Yzman said:

Hmm, yes I do see that. I misunderstood a bit. Do we know for sure that pantheon beliefs become a follower belief or do they get mixed in with founder beliefs?

Basically, has anyone actually tested this?

Click to expand...

Haven't "tested" this, but I've definitely seen AI Pantheon beliefs in my cities that converted to the AI religion. Specifically, Desert Faith, in a couple of games.