Soooo defensive pacts, yeah

Ryu007JP · Apr 3, 2013

Howdy all, new to the forums here. Been playing the heck outta Civ V recently, durn addicting game

Anywho was going for OCC (trying for culture)on king with Siam, got me a great spot, was progressing pretty decently had all but 5 of the wonders and was cranking out some decent culture.

However I was sandwiched between Spain, who decided to be a warmongering meany head, and Germany. I was getting along swimmingly with Germany and had repulsed two Spanish wars against me.

I go into a defensive pact with Germany for some extra protection. Germany came to me to renew, Spain attacked me once again Germany made no DoW on Spain, and with 16 turns left in the Defense Pact attacks me :confused:

That seems a bit off to me, a friend pointed out that well a DP doesn't mean the other party can't attack the other. Still that seems rather wrong. I'll probably be avoiding defensive pacts in the future since they seem to mean nothing.
-Gripe off-

Double Trouble · Apr 3, 2013

If either you or Germany declare war on any other civ (or city state I think) then the defensive pact gets cancelled. That might be what happened to you. I had a couple of defensive pacts with 2 stong military civs in an old game and they jointly declared war on Sweden, and then a turn later America declared on me leaving me a bit exposed. Managed to hold them off but it gave Austria enough time to beat me in the space race

elijahfire · Apr 3, 2013

Ryu007JP said:
Howdy all, new to the forums here. Been playing the heck outta Civ V recently, durn addicting game Anywho was going for OCC (trying for culture)on king with Siam, got me a great spot, was progressing pretty decently had all but 5 of the wonders and was cranking out some decent culture.

However I was sandwiched between Spain, who decided to be a warmongering meany head, and Germany. I was getting along swimmingly with Germany and had repulsed two Spanish wars against me.

I go into a defensive pact with Germany for some extra protection. Germany came to me to renew, Spain attacked me once again Germany made no DoW on Spain, and with 16 turns left in the Defense Pact attacks me

That seems a bit off to me, a friend pointed out that well a DP doesn't mean the other party can't attack the other. Still that seems rather wrong. I'll probably be avoiding defensive pacts in the future since they seem to mean nothing.
-Gripe off-

It's just a chance, you don't want to make DP with an aggressive nation bc they could just declare war on someone else then on you.

Rpger29 · Apr 3, 2013

Ryu007JP said:
Howdy all, new to the forums here. Been playing the heck outta Civ V recently, durn addicting game Anywho was going for OCC (trying for culture)on king with Siam, got me a great spot, was progressing pretty decently had all but 5 of the wonders and was cranking out some decent culture.

However I was sandwiched between Spain, who decided to be a warmongering meany head, and Germany. I was getting along swimmingly with Germany and had repulsed two Spanish wars against me.

I go into a defensive pact with Germany for some extra protection. Germany came to me to renew, Spain attacked me once again Germany made no DoW on Spain, and with 16 turns left in the Defense Pact attacks me

That seems a bit off to me, a friend pointed out that well a DP doesn't mean the other party can't attack the other. Still that seems rather wrong. I'll probably be avoiding defensive pacts in the future since they seem to mean nothing.
-Gripe off-

Is it possible that Germany had been at war during a gap in the defensive pact? If they were, they could have been under a peace treaty once they renewed the pact with you. Being stuck in the peace treaty situation, they couldn't declare war. I think I remember this being possible.

whyidie · Apr 3, 2013

So the AI cannot declare on you if there is an active defensive pact ?

If so I must apologize to Napolean. We had an active DOF and I thought we had a defensive pact as well when he declared on me. Terrific underhanded move on his part as it did eventually result in my defeat, but I didn't realize he would not have been able to do it if the defensive pact were still active.

Zezima · Apr 3, 2013

Defensive pacts are also particularly counter-intuitive when you have one with two civs, and one of those two civs DoWs the other. :cry:

Edit: In retrospect, it's interesting that the allied civ being DoWd takes precedence over the other allied civ making a DoW. Until now, I hadn't considered that the DP could be voided by the aggressor civ DoWing. Hopefully they look into this in BNW, and at least give us the option to choose a course of action.

Ryu007JP · Apr 3, 2013

Well the only thing I can think of is that around 8 turns into the 2nd defensive pact Germany declared war on a city state. Still, if that nulls the DP, I'd still like a notice that ours was ended by Germany's action. But if I remember description of defense pact it states if either nation declares war on another NATION, wasn't aware that a City State would be considered a nation. On the plus side Germany was kind enough to finish the research agreement before declaring war on me <.<

sufficiency · Apr 3, 2013

If you, or Germany, dows someone, the Defense Pact is nulled and you have to renew it.

If Germany, say, moves before Spain, it is possible that Germany will dow someone (thus cancelling the pact), then Spain will dow you - on the same turn. These are the things to keep in mind.

The reality is, Defense Pacts are nearly useless, particularly on higher difficulties. The only thing good about it is that it can be used to test if an AI is interested in dowing you.

Soooo defensive pacts, yeah

Ryu007JP

Chieftain

Double Trouble

Chieftain

elijahfire

Chieftain

Rpger29

Prince

whyidie

Emperor

Zezima

Professional Troll

Ryu007JP

Chieftain

sufficiency

King

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