I don't see the point of adding in civs like Assyria....

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The Egyptians had soft metals like copper and the stone was limestone which is quite soft. The difficulty is moving the blocks into position, but with enough labor and labor-saving simple machines, it can be done.

A real "blow your mind" monument is Gobekli Tepe. It is comparable to Stonehenge in its difficulty level, but they stepped it up and carved animal reliefs in the megaliths as well. Oh, and it predates agriculture. So they essentially devised quarrying, simple rollers or sledges, heavy ropes, and levers without the benefits of metals or being able to support a huge labor pool.
 
Eagle Pursuit said:
The Egyptians had soft metals like copper and the stone was limestone which is quite soft. The difficulty is moving the blocks into position, but with enough labor and labor-saving simple machines, it can be done.

A real "blow your mind" monument is Gobekli Tepe. It is comparable to Stonehenge in its difficulty level, but they stepped it up and carved animal reliefs in the megaliths as well. Oh, and it predates agriculture. So they essentially devised quarrying, simple rollers or sledges, heavy ropes, and levers without the benefits of metals or being able to support a huge labor pool.
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So pretty much you're not saying it was aliens...but it was aliens. [/sarcasm]

Edit: Sarcasm made apparent.
 
Mmm. No. I'm saying humans can accomplish some pretty amazing feats even when lacking optimal technologies, logistics, and infrastructure.
 
I've heard of several different theories on how the pyramids were built, with some of them having been somewhat testing - enough evidence, I suppose, that if we today could figure out ways to build it, ancient folks would have too.
 
But seriously, the game starts in 4000 BC at the "beginning of civilization", yet there are all sorts of ancient ruins to be found.

This means (at least the game is saying) that there must have been civilizations prior to 4000 BC, and their ruins (which are more advanced than your current civilization) are left behind for you to find.

Who's to say that this is not true, and there were advanced civilizations in the far far past that for some reason collapsed and humans basically had to start over. Maybe these civilizations are the ones who built the pyramids and stone henge.

At least as far as the tech chronology of the game goes, you can build the pyramids before iron working or horseback riding, which in my opinion is ridiculous from an engineering and scientific standpoint. To say the Egyptians were capable of building the pyramids because they "somehow managed to figure it out with primitive technology", is like saying that medieval England was capable of building a space station if they really put their minds to it.
 
You don't need iron to carve on limestone. It's super soft. Copper chisels are more than adequate and they frequently used fire to make it brittle and even easier to work with.

Moving big rocks isn't an issue either when you have levers, ramps, and a lot of workers.

With regards to design, the pyramids are far from sophisticated. There are no arches or pylons or buttresses. The Egyptians were known to have a good handle on surveying mathematics based on the layout of their agricultural fields and irrigation. That same knowledge could stack rectangular blocks in a preconceived fashion. It's not like their minds were lesser than ours. They had the same capacity to organize as we do.
 
aluelkdf said:
To say the Egyptians were capable of building the pyramids because they "somehow managed to figure it out with primitive technology", is like saying that medieval England was capable of building a space station if they really put their minds to it.
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But they did, and they were successful. It is well accepted that the "burning wheel" seen in the sky over England in November 1387 (and reported in "Knighton's Continuator") was the remnants of the secret English space station falling from orbit. The event was such a spectacular failure that the English abandoned their space exploration efforts in favor of armed rebellion against the reign of Richard II (victorious at the battle of Radcot Bridge).
 
I recently read a book that made the argument that the human brain was just as developed 6,000 years ago as it is now. The reason why it took so long for technological advances was due to information being lost every generation (lower life spans, lack of being able to record and share learned information, disease, etc.).

I see no logical reason why that shouldn't be true. There are folk who thousands of years ago could make some pretty damn accurate calculations of the Earth's size, distance between stars, etc. The average person today would struggle with those things if it weren't for records telling you exactly how to do it. On the flip-side, if you were to transport a group of people back to 4,000AD, I'm sure they could do some impressive things without the proper tools.

I suppose it could be aliens, but I think it more likely that we take for granted how much longer life spans and the ability to share information has influenced technological advances.
 
In my current game I am playing as Russia. That name means nothing to me, they are just the yellow/black civ with a good set of traits. Why make it any more complex than that for current and future civs?
 
Don't even say the word Aliens. If I could ban one thing, it would be any "Alien conspiracy" theories :lol: and the assumptions that our ancestors were too dumb to do anything

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if our ancestors minds were just as capable or even more capable than our minds now. Knowledge builds up over time, it takes generations of establishment to build up new information on past principles
 
Humans 6,000 years ago were anatomically identical to humans today. In fact, I bet that the average ancient Greek was a lot smarter than the average modern American.

And the actual structure of the pyramid may not be complicated, but their massive size does make a "simple" structure complicated to construct. And the pyramids were constructed almost perfectly, they don't lean to one side or anything. The pyramids were built closer to perfect than any modern skyscraper is.

If 21st century humans were transported back to 4000 BC and we were left to our own devices most of us would probably die within a month. Most people don't know how to grow wheat, milk a cow, use herbs for medicine or anything. We are completely dependent on "the system" to stay alive.
 
aluelkdf said:
Humans 6,000 years ago were anatomically identical to humans today. In fact, I bet that the average ancient Greek was a lot smarter than the average modern American.

And the actual structure of the pyramid may not be complicated, but their massive size does make a "simple" structure complicated to construct. And the pyramids were constructed almost perfectly, they don't lean to one side or anything. The pyramids were built closer to perfect than any modern skyscraper is.

If 21st century humans were transported back to 4000 BC and we were left to our own devices most of us would probably die within a month. Most people don't know how to grow wheat, milk a cow, use herbs for medicine or anything. We are completely dependent on "the system" to stay alive.
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As to the Pyramids, let us not forget the "reject" pyramids that were not so successful and predated those at Giza. i.e. the "bent pyramid" of Snefru. Not only that, but the Egyptians started with stepped pyramids.

Aliens have to engage in trial and error as well. :crazyeye:
 
Browd said:
But they did, and they were successful.
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They did according to who? A bunch of Harvard and Oxford elitists who were no there when the pyramids were built, they really have no clue and are just making an educated GUESS. Nobody knows for sure with 100% certainty where the pyramids came from. Its not as well documented as the Romans building the coleseum.

I think the idea that the pyramids came from some other source (maybe even an advanced human civilization that predated the Egyptians), is just as plausible as the idea that the Egyptians built it.

When the mainstream historical community comes to a consensus through thousands of years of repetition it becomes de facto fact, whether it's true or not. And anybody who dares to challenge the establishment gets laughed at and their career is destroyed. So even if some historians disagree with the official story, most will not dare publicly question it our of fear of ridicule.
 
Dark_Jedi06 said:
As to the Pyramids, let us not forget the "reject" pyramids that were not so successful and predated those at Giza. i.e. the "bent pyramid" of Snefru. Not only that, but the Egyptians started with stepped pyramids.

Aliens have to engage in trial and error as well. :crazyeye:
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There is no way to know exactly when each pyramid was constructed. Professors just created a chronology of events based on their best guess (see my post above). And it seemed logical to them that the reject pyramids came first, because it was assumed the Egyptians were the origins of all of them. So they had to create a chronology of events that would make their theory work.

But the great pyramids may very well predate the reject pyramids. And those awkward pathetic exuses of a pyramid could have been the Egyptians attempting to imitate the great pyramids (which were a mystery to them) without success.
 
There Assyrians were more important and influential than any other African civ (because Ethiopia and Mali/Songhai are already in), and also more than most of the European civs.
I think that the significance or the importance of a civilization is a higher factor than the empty slots on the earth map. The earth map is not the whole game.
I support adding Hittites and Medes and Mughals and and Mamluks and as many new civilizations as possible even though they wound't cover any new land.
Not to mention that if they plan to add the Hittites to the already announced Ur and Assyria and to the existing Persia and Egypt, a Mesopotamian mod must be in, and that is really a dream coming true.
 
aluelkdf said:
But by 4000BC standards, both Rome and America are pretty much modern civs. And I also think its strange to see a civ like Babylon in 2000AD.

But we shouldn't over analyze too much. This is a game that spans human history from far ancient times all the way to the space age. The game has civs from every era, and every era has civs that don't really "belong".
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My problem is about having them on a "real world map", not a fictional/random map.
 
steveg700 said:
And what in what way would you gauge this intelligence of disaprate eras?
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There are differences in knowledge, due to 2500 years of separation. I am talking about a person's natural ability. The Greeks were relatively enlightened considering the age they lived in. When you look at 2013 America by contrast, most Americans probably can't even find Greece on map.

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