Communication and Supply lines

GeneralX

Warlord
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I’ve tried to find if this topic has been dealt with elsewhere, but I can’t see if that is so. Therefore, at the risk of covering ground already surveyed I have some ideas about communications and supply links.

1. Infrastructure - I would like to see the game require the construction of relevant infrastructure before strategic resources can be exploited. Already there needs to be a road/rail connection, however I would like to see a mine built for mineral resources, a farm for agricultural resources, and perhaps a pump for oil.

2. Oil pipelines – Before there can be trade in oil there needs to be a pipeline (as many as you like) connecting the oil supply to a city with a port (or an airport, as a concession to land locked civilizations, or perhaps another civilizations oil pipeline). The same principle can be applied to water, whereby you can pipe water from a river into arid areas and establish irrigation networks.

5. Telecommunication lines – There may be some wonders (such as the internet) which require telecommunication lines. Outside of this, telecommunications increase commerce as the ability to transmit information lends itself to the placement of orders, transmission of funds etc. There is also a need to have good telecommunications for an integrated national defence system, radar network etc. Effective telecommunications are also a necessity for science as they allow a rapid and accurate transmission of ideas.

6. Roads - I like the idea that others have put forward that there needs to be highways, as well as ordinary road and rail networks. There is a military point though in all this. Roads are essential for the mobility of forces. The best example I am aware of is Gettysburg. The town was significant because it was the junction for a number of roadways. Somehow this concept of transportation hubs and nodes needs to be incorporated into the game. As it is now, if a city is captured the road system can be robust enough that mobility by road or rail is still easy. In warfare it is not always so. Perhaps we need to have different types of road (dirt, sealed, highway etc) so that this concept or critical transportation links exists within the game

7. Nationalised energy grid – As the game stands each city can have some form of power station built in it to improve productivity. Yet in the real world nations have a national power grid. Some cities, like the one I live in, don’t have a power station, yet major industry exists because power is drawn from elsewhere. A similar scenario could be incorporated into the game through the construction of power lines linking cities and power stations built as required to meet the increasing energy demands. Perhaps one city could have several power stations, or you might want to spread them about. Either way, there needs to be some way of graphically presenting the demand for energy, and the energy produced by a power grid. There may even be the possibility of connecting to another civilizations power grid and selling/buying power. This could work also for oil and water.

8. Strategic communication/supply nodes – The creation of a network like this will create strategic cities. For example, if one city has five major roads, three power stations, four power lines and three telecommunications links, and two oil pipelines extending from it as well as a port and an airport, then that city is of strategic importance, certainly of more importance than a city with only a local road/rail network, one power line etc. This has implications for national defence, and the strategic placement of cities. Imagine the problems that could come from having a major strategic city like this right next door to an enemy civilization. It would change the way you structure your armed forces, where you deploy them, even foreign policy. There is also an obligation on the player to plan and construct a robust communications/supply infrastructure that can handle pillaging/warfare.

Again, I’m sorry if all this has been covered before, but if not then I hope it at least gives food for thought.
 
It seems quite SimCity-ish. Not that that's a bad thing, but it would have to be implemented correctly. If they could do it, it would give a lot more depth to management. If not, it would be a nightmare to play.
 
I like the pipeline and different road types best. Road and rail dont always cut it. Rail should be perhaps + 5 extra movement, while highways would be unlimited.
 
Your ideas are correct, but civ is from a strategic point of view at a higher level of control. In my point of view there is enough city and unit MM now, adding more tactical depth as you describe would make games too long and probably boring. These details are more important for tactical games than for civ, imho.
 
rbis4rbb said:
I like the pipeline and different road types best. Road and rail dont always cut it. Rail should be perhaps + 5 extra movement, while highways would be unlimited.


I'd have it the othe way. Roads suffer from haf more congestion than rail and are generally slowy. And rail is a lot lot lot more efficent for shipping things.
 
I agree with Mr. Blond. As I do like this idea, maybe adding highways is good, but not more. If you want all your cities to be connected with everything, you have to build roads 1, highways 2, railroads 3, pipelines 4, telecommunication 5 and electricity 6. Non less that 6 different "roads" !!! If you have palced your cities they way it should (4 tiles from one to another) it would take 24 turns (for 1 worker, not counting those of the beginning when there's nothing) to link them with all this !!!

No, it is simply unimaginable. And please, STOP WITH THIS UNLIMITED MOVEMENT FOR EITHER RAILROADS OR HIGHWAYS !!! It's really unrealistic. No limits means you could make 100 rounds of the Earth in 1 turn. A greec taxi has done it in 23 years (4 mio km or 2.5 mio miles), wheeling 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.
 
Although I'd like to see supply lines for units, this is too much micromanagment IMO :)
 
I'm a bit concerned that the theory of what I was trying to say didn't come across as well as I hoped. The theory goes something like this:
1. Before you can exploit a resource you need to build the relevant infrastructure (mines, pipelines etc).
2. Any unified nation, especially in a post-industrial world, is integrated. At the moment each city in a civilization is a bit like a city-state. Each functions independently of another. The idea I have is to create an infrastructure that reflects the interdependent nature of modern nations.
3. It is a bit Sim-Cityish, but I didn’t want people to get the idea that it meant more micro-management. Theoretically you should be able to build the infrastructure and let it run itself, building more infrastructure as required.
4. The game is a mixture of tactical and strategic concepts. I was trying to convey the idea that if you have to plan your infrastructure (it would take a mammoth effort to build highways, pipelines, power lines, and telephone lines everywhere) you have to make strategic decisions about the layout of the infrastructure, how many links you have, what sort of links etc. For me this would enhance the game because the challenge would then be to create a robust system capable of withstanding an attack and affects my decisions about where I place troops (eg. Guarding a pipeline as in Iraq at the moment, or putting troops permanently on an oil deposit to prevent its destruction by paratroops sent on a suicide mission).
5. There is more than one way to win a war. Infrastructure that enables supply, communications, and productivity is the sinew that keeps the fighting forces operational. Under this system if an enemy civilization were to attack me and I could cripple their economy, or capture a strategic city, I could bring the whole thing to a successful conclusion (without the mass slaughter and resultant resource waste that currently exists). To do this all I might need to do is destroy an oil pipeline, or capture a key city that is a transportation hub.

I don't like micro-management either. I just want to see the game come a little closer to the real world. In a modern communication/transport infrastructure you don't have major roads everywhere. Pipelines don't go everywhere, only where they are needed. The same goes for power and rail.
 
Hmmm, rather than 'oil pipelines' as a seperate lot of infrastructure, how about you have an 'oil refinery' improvement. This would allow the oil trade IF that city is connected to the trade network via a RR AND would give you a commerce/wealth benefit to that city (the downsides, of course, being pollution and increased maintainance cost for any RR's leading into that city to reflect the fact that their is a pipeline there too!)
Similarly, rather than BUILD telecommunications, why not have 'telecommunications-based' improvements that require a RR to be within the city radius, and which grant a corruption reducing benefit (and/or small wonders which count as these improvements in every city). Again this would increase the maintainance value of these RR's, and might increase WW (instant information?) in cities which have these improvements.
That said, though, I would not object if they put new tile improvements into the game, and I would DEFINITELY love to have the capacity to add/edit tile improvements in much the same way you can do with city improvements!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.
 
Aussie_Lurker said:
Hmmm, rather than 'oil pipelines' as a seperate lot of infrastructure, how about you have an 'oil refinery' improvement...Similarly, rather than BUILD telecommunications, why not have 'telecommunications-based' improvements...

You could do it that way I suppose. Not my preferred option though. I'm sort of taken with the idea that in a war I could attack a pipeline (as in Iraq at the moment), rather than taking pot luck with an attack upon a city. Your suggestion fits in very well with the structure of the game at the moment. I feel it would take away from interconnectivity though. I would like the game to reflect this concept more than it does at the moment.

What about combining the two ideas. Infrastructure in the city, and on the tiles, and the resource/technology can't fully be used until it exists?

PS - The Lions lost, but the sun still shines on in Queensland. :cool:
 
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