Trade $2: Who? Ring? Ourselves Out For Fun And Profit

--RESERVED---
Please do not post until I start the discussion tomorrow.
Unless you are Classical and feel like starting the discussion for your boss, who needs sleep.

Stuck_As_a_Mac said:

--RESERVED---
Please do not post until I start the discussion tomorrow.
Unless you are Classical and feel like starting the discussion for your boss, who needs sleep.

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I will do that boss. Here are the potential deals, discuss.
Here is German Deal #1

Here is German Deal #2

Here is German Deal #3

Here is German Deal #4

Here is German Deal #5

My favourite deals are one and three, because they give us the most benefit.

What I want:
At least 1 contact + perhaps Theology. -> we cal trade for other contacts with that 1 contact and get to know everyone + get a map.

What I don't want:
Give away any of our contacts. I also don't want to trade Chivalry too early; try to get the contact (s) for GPT and straight gold so we can sell Chivalry at a higher price.

Steps to take:
-=> buy 1 or 2 contacts for gold and gpt. Then talk to those new guys and if they are lagging scientifically, sell old techs for contacts first. Else just buy contacts, if possible WM. But do not yet sell our Chivalry yet. When we know all others; assess how we can sell our techs the best. If done well we'll get all our gold + gpt back and more + all known techs + still a monopoly on contacts.

Whatever you do; do not sell contacts !!!!
I'll have a look at the trades I can come up with, later today.

Rik Meleet said:

Whatever you do; do not sell contacts !!!!
I'll have a look at the trades I can come up with, later today.

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I certainly agree with you on that. I would like everyone to see if they can get as many trades that are possible. The more choices will make a better informed public.

Regards, Classical Hero, your Trade Deputy.

Absolutely do not trade contacts. Don't trade Chivarly this TC. I would like to get contacts all around and a WM from the next TC and then call it quits to see what we can get Theo and The Republic for when trading with everyone.

The MOTH plan:
I think we should make the following trades next TC. Everything after the 1st trade is theory, so we need to max out the appropriate trades for further contact.
1. Trade for 2 cheapest Civ contacts using WM and renogotiated peace as bargaining chips:
Germany Gives: Peace, Contact w/ Indians, Contact w/Aztecs
We Give: Peace, WM, 35G.
2. Trade Peace and WM to India for Peace and contact with 2 more civs or 1 civ and WM (obviously the most we can get).
3. Trade Peace and WM to Aztecs for Peace and contact with 1 civ and WM and +++.

If we are still short one contact then step 4; else step 5.
4. Trade with Americans or Russians WM for contact with China. Don't redo peace here as we can't assume that it will be in our favor.
5. Stop the TC so that we can investigate more trades.

Some analysis and reasoning on this is as follows:
Here are a few assumptions:
1. Since the Germans will trade their techs, I am assuming that everyone on the other continent knows these Theo and The Republic.
2. Since the Germans are willing to pay for Chivalry I assume that that no one knows Chivalry.
3. AIs trade maps all the time, so I will assume that we only need WM from one Civ.
4. Our WM is very valuable for one turn only on the other continent.
5. The weakest Civs are the cheapest to buy contacts for.
6. The weakest Civs will give us contacts to everyone else cheaper.
7. Its not good to include GPT in a peace deal as you then have to worry about peace in 20 turns.

Given this, I've done some investigation and the basic GPT contact cost is as follows:
Indians: 12 GPT
Aztecs: 13 GPT
Americans: 18 GPT
Russians: 19 GPT
Chinese: 22 GPT (actually 21GPT +2 G).

Next question: how much will Germany pay for peace? We are culturally superior and militarily and scientifically equal. So not too much.
Using Contact with the Chinese for a test, We could get contact for 15GPT +10G when we renogotiate peace.

Next question: how much for the 2 cheapest contacts with Germany using peace and WM as bargaining chips?
Germany Gives: Peace, Contact w/ Indians, Contact w/Aztecs
We Give: Peace, WM, 35G.

I agree not to sell any contacts. Remember that if you sell our world map or chivalry to anyone, it should be sold to everyone, and that buying contacts one at a time is cheaper. Regarding renegogiation of peace, the power graph should be examined before renegogiating with any newly met civilizations.

There is one other thing I was able to get last night...

We Give: 205 Gold
We Get: Contact with India.

We won't be able to get any "low tech" sales off of them, as India has the Great Library. Given this, though, if there's anyone we should sell Chivalry @ 2nd to, it's them. Of course, if India doesn't have Chiv yet, then hold until we either find someone who does or else have found everyone.

And if they have it, then we sell to Germany @ 3rd-5th.

• Aztecs <-> 291
• Russians <-> 277 + 2gpt
• Chinese <-> 290 + 5gpt
• Americans <-> 277 + 2gpt
• Indians <-> 201

Alternative (and these I really like):

• Aztecs + TM <-> WM
• Russians + TM <-> WM + 22 gold
• Chinese <-> WM + 34 gold
• Americans + TM <-> WM + 22 gold
• India + TM + 8 + 4gpt <-> WM

And then continue to talk to the new civ, buying another contact for WM.

My choice would be: Trade our WM for contact with India + German TM + some gold. Then talk to India to purchase a contact for our WM (+ or - some cash or gpt.) Continue that pattern of WM sales for contact (and TM or WM) until we know them all. When we have all contacts; check for tech trades.

WM is not useful to them; the ocean seems to be big; so they won't come to us. Nor will they meet anyone of our continent.

I wholeheartedly agree with RM's plan. The trades he proposes are far better than anything else in this thread.

Something I forgot to mention earlier. Don't buy theology until we have bought contacts.

Don't forget about renogotiating peace. With renogotiated peace we can get contact with both India and Aztecs for WM and 35 G.

Alternatively we can get the one the Rik really liked upped. It would be:
Peace, India, TM, 15g, 9GPT <> Peace, WM

I stated above that its not usually good to include GPT in a peace deal, so I really prefer the first trade be:
Peace, India, Aztecs <> Peace, WM, 35G
I would be ok with:
Peace, India, WM <> Peace, WM, 91G

TimBentley said:

Something I forgot to mention earlier. Don't buy theology until we have bought contacts.

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: exactly my idea. If we first get to know eachother Theology (and other techs they might have) get cheaper and cheaper. Perhaps there is a civ out there who has Theology, but not a tech we have; better trades.

@MOTH: I think it is a bit exploitive to renegotiate a peace which is the default setting when civs meet ...

Some nice points here

''Peace, India, TM, 15g, 9GPT <> Peace, WM''

This Indian deal seems to be the best option. With or without peace renegotation. Btw, we should once have a discussion about renegotationg peace because it seems a bit as cheating.

Rik.. are you angling for my gig?
I like that deal. I like it alot.
This would be the first, as you suggested and I agree:
India + TM + 8 + 4gpt <-> WM
Then try for a different contact with the same strategy.
IF India has chivalry, it is safe to sell on the other continent. We know that India is the leader there as they have the GLib, so if they have it that means that there is one civ other than us that has this tech on the continent.
Just keep trading. The WM should be worth somewhat the same to each of them as all of them lack it (since they cant trade durring our turn)

Any more suggestions?

SaaM

EXECUTIVE DECISION da da da dum!
We will trade Bismark our World Map for Contact with India, a TM, 8g and 4gpt.
We will then contact Ghandi. We will trade him our world map for as much gold, communication and map as he is willing to give.
We will repeat the process until all contacts have been earned.
We will NOT sell either contacts from our side or Chivalry.
We will research what the tech department tells us to.
We will NOT sell contacts from the new world to our neighbors. If all goes well, we won't have to as they will be dead.

SaaM
Who is reposting this exact thing in the TC thread