HNDY08 - AWDG Babylon - Small Pangaea

Always War Demi God C3C 1.22 As the Babylonian Cultural Snobs
Grumpy Old Men of Always War

Patch: 1.22 C3C
Level: DG
Variant: Always War
Civilization: Babylon
Water: Max water to promote chokes
Map Type: Pangaea
Size:Small
Age: 5 Billion
Temperature: Warm
Climate: Wet
Barbarians: Roaming
Rivals: Hittites, Egypt, Sumeria, Persia, Arabs
AI Aggression: Normal
Victory Condition: All are enabled.
Culturally linked starts: Off
Respawn: Off
Preserve Random Seed: On
Cultural Conversion: On

Roster and Order of Play
Handy
Sir Bugsy
Greebley
Yom
grs
Northern Pike



Lucky candle to light the way.

Always War Boilerplate as we play it
You may only trade when you first meet a civilization, and must declare war on the same turn after trading is complete. If you see a new AI unit, you must make contact & declare war that turn. Absolutely no turn based trade (such as GPT) allowed. If you see a new face on F4, you are obligated to declare war that turn (after trading). Players must declare war if they are exploring and see AI units, but are not required to actually attack the units they come in contact with. No peace treaties, ever. You may check F4 as often as you like to spy on the AI's tech, resources, luxuries & city count. We are not allowed to build embassies .

Discuss any move that seems exploitive before doing it with the team. Although there are not too many exploits available in AW, we’ll follow the forbidden blatant exploits banned by GOTM and RBCiv such as no "Free Wealth". Other normal game exploits such as "Baiting the AI" with an empty city to create a kill zone are an AW tradition and are allowed. Also, you ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle. This is considered an exploit in RBCiv rules, but is okay in our AW games. In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it. We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves. You may whip at will, including captured cities or cities where all citizens are unhappy.

SG Stuff
You have 24 hours for an "I got it" and 72 to play. If you need a one day extension, then mention this before the 72 hours are up. Players can work out skips between themselves, just post a message to the thread. If you can't play within 72 total, switch places or ask for a skip. We will play 10 turns at first, and possibly fewer later (5) if the turns begin to take too long.

Considering placing a restriction on this that we cannot build or capture wonders. Let me know what you think about this limitation, and whether it's better suited to an AWE small map game.

I like that restriction. On Handy 6, by capturing the Great Library, we pretty much sealed the Mayans' and Russians' fate.

I am not opposed to tryin this. I do want to state the other option in this thread:

Land units cannot bypass a city without destroying it first.
Sea units can go anywhere and drop off land units on any coast. The land units must then destroy the cities before passing them either inland or along the coast (though they can bypass the coastal city by getting back on the boat).

Click to expand...

The idea here is to lessen the AI weakness of leaving armies completely alone and allowing massive pillaging. If it didn't have this weakness, you could pillage coastal resources by using boats, but inland resources would require fighting your way there. Its not exact because you can drop off a smaller force and get away again instead of being killed.

The no wonder rule means more pillaging and the second means less pillaging. The reason I like less pillaging is that we would have to learn to face and fight knights and cavalry. If the AI has only speed one units, it is a lot more predictable and easy to deal with.

Well, we need to pick one or the other, but not both.

Land units cannot bypass a city without destroying it first.

Click to expand...

Does this mean we can drop some units off next to the coast to pillage a resource on the coast, but we could not pillage a resource if it is 2 tiles from the coast?

Maybe units can pillage anywhere (like the AI does with spears), but armies are restricted. Not trying to change your idea, just thinking out loud.

I'd like to join.

handy900 said:

Maybe units can pillage anywhere (like the AI does with spears), but armies are restricted. Not trying to change your idea, just thinking out loud.

Click to expand...

I like this restriction, although we would probably never go pillaging. That kind of leaves it to a conquer as you go type of restriction.

I was thinking that you could go to any of the border cities worked tiles, so yes, you can pillage a lux two squares away, and you could starve a border city by taking all its worked land. You just couldn't go past it into the interior.

This gives a penetration of 3 or 4 or so squares but no more.


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Or your rule will work as long as we don't build "pseudo-armies" - large stacks of defenders that are just like an army that romp around pillaging.

grs said:

I'd like to join.

Click to expand...

Welcome grs.

Okay, we'll play this as Greebleys Anti-Sherman's War.

I was thinking that you could go to any of the border cities worked tiles, so yes, you can pillage a lux two squares away, and you could starve a border city by taking all its worked land. You just couldn't go past it into the interior.

This gives a penetration of 3 or 4 or so squares but no more.

Click to expand...

Okay, we'll play the cannot pillage beyond a border cities tiles restriction. But we can build and capture wonders for this game.

I'll try to kick this off tomorrow. Should we move W next to the coast to settle?

Glad you can join us Grs.

Ya, I would move to the coast.

Glad you can join us Grs.

Click to expand...

Wait and see, I have a good history of losing Babylonian games - ask Sir Bugsy

Should we move W next to the coast to settle?

Click to expand...

I'd do worker to cow (obvious) and look for fish or whale and if not, maybe move nw for less coastal tiles.

Checking in.

Well folks, it's been fun, but I won't be playing this one. Between a fairly flaky computer, a bunch of other stuff I want to do, and general Civ burnout, I'm going on hiatus for a while. (Since we're old men, maybe I should say retiring. )

I'll probably keep lurking the series and reserve the right to throw in sarcastic comments.

Bye.

Turn 0 4000 bc
Worker moves to cow
Settler to forest. Nothing good there. No hills, no BG’s. Will move W & settle on the coast next turn.

Turn 1 3950
Move W & see dyes.
Mine cow.

Turn 2 3900
Found Babylon in a crappy spot. We always talk about moving the palace. We may actually do it this game.
Select masonry @ max.

Turn 3 3850
-
Turn 4 3800
-
Turn 5 3750
-
Turn 6 3700
Warrior – warrior

Turn 7 3650
Begin to explore

Turn 8 3600
-

Turn 9 3550
-

Turn 10 3500
Lux has to go to 10%
Road done – off to chop a barracks
Bummer. See purple borders. I was hoping to expand a little first before we were discovered. Going to make a retreat here and try to sneak around the border to avoid contact.
We are going to get pinned down in a corner of the map in this one. Perhaps we can go one on one early with bowmen and break these guys.

Turn 11 3450
Border expansion. We have cow, 3BGs & 2 forest (soon to be 1 forest)
Food to the SE is spotted.

Turn 12 3400
-
Turn 13 3350
Two game and 1 whale to our east.

Turn 14 3300
-
Turn 15 3250
-
Turn 16 3200
-
Turn 17 3150
Dyes hooked up.

Turn 18 3100
-
Turn 19 3050
-
Turn 20 3000
Declare war on Arabia
They have 3 cities and Masonry, Pottery, Wheel, WC

Notes:
Well, In hindsight I should have picked WC so we could build bowmen. I elected masonry for walls, hoping to avoid a 1 city GA.

Wide lens picture is below.

Going to need a Greebley archer push with Bowmen like we had in the Sumeria AWS game.

T_McC said:

Well folks, it's been fun, but I won't be playing this one. Between a fairly flaky computer, a bunch of other stuff I want to do, and general Civ burnout, I'm going on hiatus for a while. (Since we're old men, maybe I should say retiring. )

I'll probably keep lurking the series and reserve the right to throw in sarcastic comments.

Bye.

Click to expand...

T_McC, I salute your skills and I'm sorry to see you go. Come back anytime you wish.

3000 BC

It has been a fun series of games with you TMcC. I can understand burn out - it will happen to me one of these days too.

Not the best of starts, but at least we have a corner and are not in the center like HNDY07.

Greebley said:

Not the best of starts,

Click to expand...

You are the master of understatement.

Roster and Order of Play
Handy
Sir Bugsy UP
Greebley
Yom
grs
1 spot open due to a scatch

Handy,
Just one note on your turn:

I think I would have pulled the warrior in rather than trying to go around the border. We aren't going to be settling out there any time soon and it just risks meeting Arabia like you did or worse another civ. So it is a risk with little to no gain this early. We might have gotten a second city down before meeting them.

It will also give us one less defender in the capitol.

Got it. Sorry to see you go T. Welcome aboard grs. Looks like we get to have fun time with Babylon again.