Doc Tsiolkovski
Deity
During development of the ‘Rise and Rule’-Mod I ran into a Barbarian-related issue I didn’t understand at first: I never got any unit from a Goody Hut.
Upon further testing it turned out that my previous assumption, was plain simply wrong:
Wrong assumption:
“At a certain percentage, you can get the basic offensive unit (Warrior) from a Goody Hut”
(Chances vary depending on the level, and if you play an EXP Civ; further information can be seen here here. Note Oystein already mentions some vague facts about Skilled Warriors.)
So why don’t you get a Skilled Warrior in RaR (and DyP) ever?
Starting Theory:
“You can get a Barbarian unit from a Hut, but only if that unit is enabled for the Civ you play.”
Since the same issue applies to Sumeria as well (Enkidu Warriors instead of Warriors), and applied to the Aztecs pre-c3c (Jaguar Warrior), I asked on the ‘General Questions’ forum if someone ever gotten a Skilled Warrior with one of those Civs. Not many answers, but at least, nobody could prove me wrong.
Test Setup:
I made a debug map with 100+ Goody Huts next to my start, and placed the other Civs on a different landmass.
1st run:
Sumeria; Scouts enabled, Scout has 100 movement to make the handling easier. Sid level, since a non-EXP Civ will get only Maps and Units here.
Gave me a Scout; no military.
Result:
50 Huts, 50 Maps
2nd run:
Netherlands; same settings as above.
Exactly 25 maps and 25 Skilled Warrior (of course, I always disbanded them immediately)
This led me to the conclusion, your Civ must have the basic Barbarian unit enabled, but here comes the oddest part IMHO:
3rd run:
Imported the RaR ruleset, and enabled the basic Barbarian (Barbarian Raider) for the Civ I play (since the percentages so far turned out to be as expected, I didn’t care about them any longer):
Zilch. Only Maps
4th run:
Enabled Barbarian Raiders for all Civs:
Bingo!
By enabling the Raider for more and more Civs, I finally figured out the requirements:
To be able to get the basic Barbarian unit from a hut, your Civ must have be able to build that unit, and 4 more Civs as well.
Well, nobody claimed Civ is easy to understand
What about ‘Skilled Horseman’?
I had exactly one in my Civ3 career, and that was ptw with the Aztecs.
Standard c3c again, Sumeria:
As already shown, only Maps on Sid.
Maybe you need to know HBR?
Tested, same result.
Horses connected:
Tested, same result.
HBR to Sumeria and 4 more Civs:
Bingo! The very first hut gives a ‘Skilled Horseman’.
HBR as starting Tech for 5 Civs, but not Sumeria:
Only Maps again…
Another question: Does this mean Sumeria (or any Civ in RaR) has a higher chance to get Barbarians from a Goody Hut?
Say, standard chances are 7:1:1:1 for Barbarians/Maps/Gold/Skilled Warriors. Since Skilled Warriors are not possible for Sumeria at all, this should result in a 7:1:1 ratio, or 77.7…% instead of 70%.
Because of the small numbers involved, I simply couldn’t conclusively figure out if that is true; if someone more analy fixated than me feels like fiddling this out, here’s the scenario file
(A debug map with gazillions of huts, standard rules except Scouts have movement 100; pick Sumeria, and any other Civ to compare against).
Conclusion:
To get a unit from a Goody Hut, the following needs to be fulfilled:
1) Your Civs must have at least one of the two Barbarian units enabled
2) At least four more Civs must have that unit enabled as well (doesn’t matter if those Civs are in the game!)
3) If the Barbarian unit requires a Tech (HBR for Skilled Horseman), your Civ and at least four Civs must theoretically know that Tech; as odd it may sound, but four Civs not in the game but having this Tech as starting Tech works as well as four more Civs researching it.
4) You do not require resources.
Also, not confirmed (but likely): If you cannot get a unit from a Hut, your chances to get the other items are increased.
What does this mean for Sumeria?
1) If you play a ‘Pacifistic’ game with zero military, you cannot get unwanted units from a hut before you and 4 more Civs know HBR.
2) It may be occasionally worth it to head for HBR and trade it around, or wait for the AI to research and spread it, before you pop huts – you then will get ‘Skilled Horsemen’ when other Civs would get ‘Skilled Warriors’
3) Most likely, you have a slightly higher risk to get Barbarians from a hut.
What does this mean for Modders:
Unfortunately, if you somehow hoped to give actually useful, non-buildable units via Goody Huts – forget it. The Civ that pops the Hut needs to know the Tech for the unit, and needs to also have the unit enabled. Well, that sucks
.
Comments?
Upon further testing it turned out that my previous assumption, was plain simply wrong:
Wrong assumption:
“At a certain percentage, you can get the basic offensive unit (Warrior) from a Goody Hut”
(Chances vary depending on the level, and if you play an EXP Civ; further information can be seen here here. Note Oystein already mentions some vague facts about Skilled Warriors.)
So why don’t you get a Skilled Warrior in RaR (and DyP) ever?
Starting Theory:
“You can get a Barbarian unit from a Hut, but only if that unit is enabled for the Civ you play.”
Since the same issue applies to Sumeria as well (Enkidu Warriors instead of Warriors), and applied to the Aztecs pre-c3c (Jaguar Warrior), I asked on the ‘General Questions’ forum if someone ever gotten a Skilled Warrior with one of those Civs. Not many answers, but at least, nobody could prove me wrong.
Test Setup:
I made a debug map with 100+ Goody Huts next to my start, and placed the other Civs on a different landmass.
1st run:
Sumeria; Scouts enabled, Scout has 100 movement to make the handling easier. Sid level, since a non-EXP Civ will get only Maps and Units here.
Gave me a Scout; no military.
Result:
50 Huts, 50 Maps
2nd run:
Netherlands; same settings as above.
Exactly 25 maps and 25 Skilled Warrior (of course, I always disbanded them immediately)
This led me to the conclusion, your Civ must have the basic Barbarian unit enabled, but here comes the oddest part IMHO:
3rd run:
Imported the RaR ruleset, and enabled the basic Barbarian (Barbarian Raider) for the Civ I play (since the percentages so far turned out to be as expected, I didn’t care about them any longer):
Zilch. Only Maps
4th run:
Enabled Barbarian Raiders for all Civs:
Bingo!
By enabling the Raider for more and more Civs, I finally figured out the requirements:
To be able to get the basic Barbarian unit from a hut, your Civ must have be able to build that unit, and 4 more Civs as well.
Well, nobody claimed Civ is easy to understand
What about ‘Skilled Horseman’?
I had exactly one in my Civ3 career, and that was ptw with the Aztecs.
Standard c3c again, Sumeria:
As already shown, only Maps on Sid.
Maybe you need to know HBR?
Tested, same result.
Horses connected:
Tested, same result.
HBR to Sumeria and 4 more Civs:
Bingo! The very first hut gives a ‘Skilled Horseman’.
HBR as starting Tech for 5 Civs, but not Sumeria:
Only Maps again…
Another question: Does this mean Sumeria (or any Civ in RaR) has a higher chance to get Barbarians from a Goody Hut?
Say, standard chances are 7:1:1:1 for Barbarians/Maps/Gold/Skilled Warriors. Since Skilled Warriors are not possible for Sumeria at all, this should result in a 7:1:1 ratio, or 77.7…% instead of 70%.
Because of the small numbers involved, I simply couldn’t conclusively figure out if that is true; if someone more analy fixated than me feels like fiddling this out, here’s the scenario file
(A debug map with gazillions of huts, standard rules except Scouts have movement 100; pick Sumeria, and any other Civ to compare against).
Conclusion:
To get a unit from a Goody Hut, the following needs to be fulfilled:
1) Your Civs must have at least one of the two Barbarian units enabled
2) At least four more Civs must have that unit enabled as well (doesn’t matter if those Civs are in the game!)
3) If the Barbarian unit requires a Tech (HBR for Skilled Horseman), your Civ and at least four Civs must theoretically know that Tech; as odd it may sound, but four Civs not in the game but having this Tech as starting Tech works as well as four more Civs researching it.
4) You do not require resources.
Also, not confirmed (but likely): If you cannot get a unit from a Hut, your chances to get the other items are increased.
What does this mean for Sumeria?
1) If you play a ‘Pacifistic’ game with zero military, you cannot get unwanted units from a hut before you and 4 more Civs know HBR.
2) It may be occasionally worth it to head for HBR and trade it around, or wait for the AI to research and spread it, before you pop huts – you then will get ‘Skilled Horsemen’ when other Civs would get ‘Skilled Warriors’
3) Most likely, you have a slightly higher risk to get Barbarians from a hut.
What does this mean for Modders:
Unfortunately, if you somehow hoped to give actually useful, non-buildable units via Goody Huts – forget it. The Civ that pops the Hut needs to know the Tech for the unit, and needs to also have the unit enabled. Well, that sucks
.Comments?
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