The Fate of the Iraqouis Nation

Provolution · Oct 31, 2004

FIRST OFFICIAL MSAV POLL

We are about to conclude the war with the Iraquais nation, and we have several
options. It seems no one wants to eradicate them completely, where some players want to give them cities back. I will cover both extremes in this poll, where one side can give traditional Iraqouis territory back. like Chattanaugha and Salamanca, where the other extreme is to conquer the remaining four cities of the peninsula. I would recommend to take Grand River and Allegheny, as we got forces close there, and we would seal Babylonia away, as well as surrounding both nations totally, as well as opening for diplomatic victory.

So please discuss and poll in this thread what you want to happen.

1. Give back Cattanaugha and Salamanca
2. Give back Salamanca , Yellow
3. Cease Fire and freeze borders
4. Conquer East Coast (Oil Springs and Niagara, larger cities) Orange and red
5. Conquer West Coast (Allegheny and Grandriver, seal Babylon and Hanging Gardens) Green and Blue
6 Conquer entire peninsula and make peace
7. Other
8 Abstain

Sir Donald III · Oct 31, 2004

Although I voted for "Conqure the Whole Peninsula", what I really want, as a Citizen, is to take all the cities in the Peninsula Except Grand River. We can make a good line around that city and still let the Iros have some of their heritage. (Which would become obsolete for us soon.)

That means keep current gains, and also take Allegheny, Oil Springs, and Niagaria Falls. (Allegheny or Niagaria through a Peace Deal if possible, 1 only.)

Oh, and clean your PM box please General.

Civman2004 · Oct 31, 2004

Voted to give back Salamanca - it'll probably flip anyway

Ashburnham · Oct 31, 2004

I am strongly against giving back Salamanca. It contains two excellent Wonders, and we can quickly and safely remove the flip risk with some cultural and garrison support.

As it is, I voted for a Ceasefire. There's no reason to further trample the Iroqouis. We've successfully stopped their attack and crippled their country, they will never be a treat to us again, let's not drive the point home and reduce our standing further in the eyes of the rest of the world. What happened to the doctrines set forth by the MSAV for simple, contained, goal-oriented wars? It seems, for all his talk, Provolution has succumbed to the "embryonic warhawks" he has lambasted, calling for limitless conquests for no other reason but to conquer.

Let us leave the Iroqouis with what is left of their pride, consolidate our gains, and renew the process of diplomacy.

Provolution · Oct 31, 2004

LOL @ Ashburnham, you have right, I change my vote to a ceasefire and freeze borders, I was catched by a "Rouse De Guerre" of Embryonism, and ask for forgiveness.

Moderator, change my vote to "Freeze Borders"

Provolution · Oct 31, 2004

Ashburnham, the doctrines could not be enacted before the 1. November, courtesy consitution, the judicary and the general opposition to the Defensive War Limited Retaliation doctrines. they were not official policy until now.
Conquests last term was a product of a non-doctrinal policy of free reins to MSAV and DP.

Chieftess · Oct 31, 2004

Other - conquer all cities except for the one inside Babylonian territory.

Civman2004 said:
Voted to give back Salamanca - it'll probably flip anyway

And lose the happiness + granary effects???

Nobody · Oct 31, 2004

no one wants to eradicate them completely

are you saying the no person wants to? or that i want to?

.........................................................................................
normally i would say kill them all, but i have had a change of heart. We should make peace as we are because we are not gods who are we to wipe out a race of people. And i also think we should ask for the iroquios city that is in babylon land, then give it to babylon as a sign of good faith.

But soon we will have refining and with that comes oil, what if theres oil under their ice. Its a hard choice take their oil, or be mercyfull. If we make a peace treaty i would not be in favor of attacking later. We are meant to be a nation of Honour.

So i come back to the way i normally look it the demogame, if this was my game and if this was my game i would take them all over.

BUT then again this game isnt to try and win fast and get a big score, its about trying to act like a real nation and i didnt support the american oil war in iraq, and we do have a big desert to the north.

Choice....choices...... I think i will abstain. Because i can't decide war or peace.

Edit: isnt this the forign departments thing anway not military.

snipelfritz · Oct 31, 2004

You know, I think that the Industial Ages is going to our heads.

*snipel shifts his top hat and readjusts his monocle*

I've suddenly decided against being a total warmonger.

Could a mod change my vote to Conquer east coast. Thank You.
Moderator Action: Subtracted 1 vote from option 6. Added 1 vote to option 4. - Rik

Rik Meleet · Nov 1, 2004

Give back Salamanca. It will flip itself and this way we are doing the inevitable "the right way".

Nobody · Nov 1, 2004

Don't give it back if its going to flip burn it the hell down. *little devil on my sholder wispering in my ear again little angel on otherside crying*

Ashburnham · Nov 1, 2004

Minister Provolution,

How exactly will you be interpreting this poll? As it stands now, Option 4 (Conquer the East Coast) is the most popular choice with 4 votes. However, both Option 2 and 3 (Return Salamanca and Ceasefire respectively) have 3 votes. When added together, that's 6 votes against further conquest. I'm not trying to tell you how to do your job, Minister, but wouldn't it make sense to add the votes for Options 1-3 together and compare them to the sum of Options 4-7? That way, we can figure out whether or not we as a people are for more conquest or against it. Then, take the leading Option which agrees with that feeling (ie, if Options 1-3 win, take the leading Option among those 3).

Nobody · Nov 1, 2004

more people dont want option 4 than do want it.

Provolution · Nov 1, 2004

If 1-3 wins, we repoll in one Turnchat what to do with Salamanca.

If 4-7 wins in total , we decide by simple plurality as time is short, maybe even limiting it to one city if the pacifist side is close enough to the conquest side.

blackheart · Nov 1, 2004

I'm kind of split on this. If we keep our current conquered cities the Iroquois will be crippled and never rise up again. If we give back Salamanca we give them a fighting chance and restrict ourselves from 2 very good wonders which would make our game a lot easier. We could also just return all of our conquests except Mauch Chunk, like countries do in real life when they aren't being imperalistic.

Crimso · Nov 1, 2004

Keep what we've got, take no more. They've got the point.

Provolution · Nov 1, 2004

The Conquest versus the Peace side is split in the middle, with 8 on each side, and the two others on each side, where there are two abstains. In this setting, I will make an exectuve decision that allow for some conquest, but only marginal.

Chieftess · Nov 1, 2004

How can anyone be split on not keeping 2 wonders? :/

Strider · Nov 1, 2004

Keep what we got as punishment, but leave 'em alone.

Sir Donald III · Nov 1, 2004

I would just like to go on to say this:

If we freeze borders, it would not do ANY good. Salamanca would stick out like a Sore Thumb.

When I was discussing with Provolution before our term started, I had stated that the tri-city area of Salmanca, Oil Springs, and Niagaria Falls were an All-or-Nothing deal. This was because Oil springs is too close to Salamanca to do any good.

BTW, at this point the Poll would largely read like a Spectrum. Removing Blackheart's and Chieftess' opposing votes, we have 5 people who want to give back Salmanca, 8 people who want more gains, and 6 who want a cease-fire. To me, that would mean a Cease-fire because the Median vote would be a Cease-fire vote. But as I said, holding Salmanca only would be quite untenable.

Also BTW, Blackheart, regardless of what we do with this Wonder City, at least we have also reunited Old Rome. I would like to keep it that way.

The Fate of the Iraqouis Nation

Fate of the Iraqouis Nation

1. Give back Cattanaugha and Salamanca

2. Give back Salamanca

3. Cease Fire and freeze borders

4. Conquer East Coast (Oil Springs and Niagara, larger cities)

5. Conquer West Coast (Allegheny and Grandriver, seal Babylon and Hanging Gardens)

6 Conquer entire peninsula and make peace

7. Other

8 Abstain

Sage of Quatronia

Emperor

Something goes here...

King

Sage of Quatronia

Sage of Quatronia

Moderator

Gangster

Crazy about the Demogame

Top predator

Gangster

King

Gangster

Sage of Quatronia

unenlightened

...aaaaaagh!

Sage of Quatronia

Moderator

In Retrospect

Emperor

Similar threads