Indochinese units or suggestions?

Hey folks,

I'm working on a generic Indochinese civ for my personal mod, and I want to add as many flavour units as I can. I can't find many units specifically made for the nations of Indochina, however. Am I missing any (see my list below)? Are there other units that other modders are using for stand-ins? If so, I'd be obliged if you'd let me know.

Here's what I've got so far:

utahjazz7's Siamese Swordsman:



Dom Pedro II's Elephant Rider:



Dom Pedro II's Elephant Archer:



Dom Pedro II's Elephant Cavalry:



Sween32's North Vietnamese Infantry:



Sween32's Viet-Cong:



Are there any other units or stand-ins that I'm missing?

Second, I'm not clear on where I should slot these units in. I'm relying primarily on the Oxford Atlas of World History, but I don't get much in the way of military history with that route. How might these units map onto entities like Nam Viet, Angkor Khmer, Sukothai, Pagan, Annam, Burma, and Siam? When did the Siamese kingdom (which avoided colonial domination from 1782 to 1932, I think) start using firearms? Where would utah's Siamese Swordsman fit in? If any of you have some handy tips, I'm all ears.

Thanks!

Viet Minh -- here's some history: http://members.lycos.co.uk/Indochine/vm/early.html

Basically the guys who threw the French out of Indochina. As they arose in the 1920s/30s, Sween's units could be given bolt action rifles and you'd have Viet Minh.

-Oz

Very interesting, thanks for the reply and the link. And it looks like the first of the two Sween units does have a bolt-action rifle, so I could make it Viet Minh without too much difficulty.

I never understood where this siamese swordsman was coming from... expect for Siamese twins/swords kind of idea. Siam, as all others in the region, should have lot of light infantry and some war elephants for the longer part of the game. Firearms, although not much used until recently in thw 20th century, were introduced by Portuguese by the time they captured Malacca. It was even frequent for Siam to have Portuguese mercs to serve them in their wars vs. Burma or the northern kingdoms. I don't have any detailed information here, but I could dig for it once at home.

pinktilapia said:

I never understood where this siamese swordsman was coming from... expect for Siamese twins/swords kind of idea.

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Funny, previously I had been using the graphic for an Assyrian! Anyhow, I'd be very much obliged if you were to dig up some of that more detailed information you say you've got at home.

All I was able to dig up last night perusing the web was the "Khmer or Cham 605-1400AD," "Annamese 939-1527AD," and "Burmese 500-1526AD" DBA Online army lists. I think at this point I'll try to use Khmer units (i.e., whatever I can find that aproximates such) from roughly 500AD-1500AD (if I knew what early Thai units looked like, I might then use Thai-style stand-ins from 1300-1500AD), then Annamese units (again, whatever I can find that aproximates such) from roughly 1500-1600AD. From roughly 1500-1800AD I'll try to find some units that aproximate Burmese units, and then I'll have Chakri Siam units (no clue what these are like) and sween's Vietnamese units rounding out the 19th and 20th centuries respectively. No idea what I'd use for Nam Viet or Funan units, which I would like to slot somehow into the 500BC-500AD period...

Depending on if you use it somewhere else maybe you could use the Tibetan Footman as spearman/pikeman?

What do you call the civ? Indochina?

Yeah, I'm calling the civ Indochina. I'm moving more and more towards geographical names for a lot of my "civs," at least at a World Map (or random map) level of scale, sort of like Steph's mod. I know it's impolitic, but I accept that as a result of game mechanics and of the way I like to play with counterfactuality.

Good idea on the Tibetan footman. I'm presently using him as a stand-in for a Ming Chinese soldier, but I think him and several of the other units I'm using for China (including Dom's "samurai musketeer") could be used for at least Vietnamese-style Indochinese units. Sometimes I get so carried away with civ-specificity that I forget to allow for some regional continuity. (Sometimes, anyway! )

Mithadan said:

...Good idea on the Tibetan footman. I'm presently using him as a stand-in for a Ming Chinese soldier, but I think him and several of the other units I'm using for China (including Dom's "samurai musketeer") could be used for at least Vietnamese-style Indochinese units. Sometimes I get so carried away with civ-specificity that I forget to allow for some regional continuity. (Sometimes, anyway! )

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I'm much more interested in the looks of a certain unit than for the original purpose. For example I use the egyptian warrior for all the "darker skinned" civs, and the mesoamerican warrior for those with a little lighter skin. A Roman warrior shouldn't look like a germanic warrior, and it's not as if I called the unit Mesoamerican warrior in the game. (Actually it's called Warrior**, where * = space)

Indeed. Funny, just yesterday I was educating myself a little on Indian military history, and noticed how similar many of the pictures Indian soliders of various sorts looked like Egyptians, Assyrians and even Celts (save for darker skin...sometimes). How hard is it to "recolour" units' skin tones, anyway? I think a darker-skinned and darker-haired Gallic Swordsman (maybe with white pants instead of the Celtic plaid, too, if possible) would do great as this Medieval Hindu swordsman:



And that reminds me, I'm thinking about using Kinboat's "Otomo Swordsman" for an Indochinese unit somewhere (perhaps an Annamese swordsman?), seeing how I didn't need to use it for the Japanese...too bad he doesn't have a shield, though.

Indochinese Infantry (1904-1920s)

I might make one some time...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2298016#post2298016

That's great, even if it takes forever for you to make them!

Mithadan said:

...How hard is it to "recolour" units' skin tones, anyway? ...

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Not very hard, but boring. I'd just mod the palette. But, it's frowned on from Firaxis to mod the expansion pack units.

the japanese Siege Crossbow would work more for the Khmer than the japanese
i Would like to see more Khmer and Saim units

W.i.n.t.e.r said:

Indochinese Infantry (1904-1920s)

I might make one some time...
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?p=2298016#post2298016

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yes!

mrtn said:

But, it's frowned on from Firaxis to mod the expansion pack units.

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I was worried about that.

ShiroKobbure said:

the japanese Siege Crossbow would work more for the Khmer than the japanese

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Good idea. Thanks for the input! (Edit: what would be better to use for the Japanese in terms of pre-gunpowder bombard units, then?)