RBO - OSG3 - Hard Rock Cafe

Well, it has been a few months since the folks at Realms Beyond have had a MOO SG, but now we're back with an SG featuring the Silicoids in a large galaxy.

The team has been organized over at Realms Beyond . Anyone interested in MOO1 gaming is invited to pay RB a visit. We're running a tourney, much like the Epics for Civ3, and may continue to host occasional MOO1 succession games if there is sufficient interest.

Parameters:

Difficulty Level: Hard
Map Size: Large
Race: Silicoids
Opponents: Five
Color: Purple
Minimum Victory Level: We must either have 2/3 of the population in the universe so that we can vote ourselves Emperor (aka Conquest), OR we must have AT LEAST 50% of the population AND have triggered the "leaders are preparing to merge with our mighty empire" message.

Premise: We've had an Imperium game with the "rocks" in a small universe, where their slow population growth isn't much of an issue, now lets try a game with them in a Large universe, where it is almost sure to pose a problem.

For this game we'll be going with 48 hours MAX to "got it" and then 48 hours to complete. Most games are 24 to "got it", so the 48 to post you've got it will be strictly enforced. If anyone needs a swap, skip, or a few extra hours to complete, just let me know and I can probably arrange it.

Please use save slot 4 for this event, and name your files this way:

osg3-2320ad.zip for example.
I really do not care what you name your pictures.

Inside the zip file should be save4.gam, of course.

Roster: (Order determined by RNG)

ToddMarshall (20 turns round 1)
Therlun (20 turns round 1)
Zed-F (20 turns round 1)
dathon (15 turns round 1)
AlanSHB (15 turns round 1)
OPEN SLOT - Closing soon.

Everyone please "check in" in this thread so we know you are here.

Here is our start.




I got it , but I won't have time to play tonite . I should have the opening turns posted within 24 hours.

The start file.

-Maniac

Checking in, Should be interesting to see population numbers by my turn

Ok, I'll be the first to say it. Let's ROCK this joint!!

:shakehead

ok im here too.

but this forum is really slow for me!
it takes half a minute for a site to load...

Checking in.

PREGAME ANALYSIS

OK, the first thing to look at as allways is what stars are within 3 parsercts of home. The answer in this case is that there are THREE stars within range. The red and green stars to the north, and the white star to the southeast are all in immediate range.

The next thing to consider is the locaton of other yellow stars. The game rarely starts an AI within 6 or 7 parsects of your start. The yellow star to the south-southwest IS 6 parsects away, so I'm going to guess that there is almost ceartianlly no AI there. The yellow in the nebula to the west is 7 partects away. It MAY have an AI, but I still consider it unlikely to have one on this size map. Other than these 2 yellows, the next yellow is TWELVE parsects out, meaning it is very likely we'll end up with lots of room to expand. The lack of ANY yellows on our northeastern backside means we'll likely end up with a rather large backyard as well, particularly if no one is in that yellow 12 parsects to our southeast.

A quick glance at our opponents reveals it couldn't get much worse. The 3 strongest races (Psilon, Human, Klackon) in the game are present. The only way I see we could have gotten a much tougher slate was if the Kitties were Meklars instead. Even though we are only on hard, the presence of the Psilons and Humans deffinately demands our attention, especially if the Humans get to #1 or #2 in pop (the Psilons could be a threat from #4 or even 5 in pop....).

THE OPENING

2300 - OK, with 3 stars in range, we have options. If we weren't the Silicoids, I would, without a second thought on this map, send the colship to the green star. It isn't only the most likely to be "habitable", as likely as the red to be large, and less likely to be poor, but also right between the other 2 stars. Even if it turns out to be a dud, it wont take 7-8 turns to fly the colship elsewhere.

But we ARE the Silicoids, and we can live anywhere, so I take into account the X-Factor of strategic bridging to other planets. Colonizing either the red or white star appears to me to bring 2 extra planets into scouting range each. The question now becomes, do I think any of those 4 planets appears to be under imminent threat of being settled. The answer to that is no. Therefore, I return to my default plan.

I send the Colony Ship to the green star, and the scouts to each of the other 2 stars so if the green star sucks, I can redirect the colship to the best alternative.

2301-2302- Factory building.

2303 - The Colony Ship arrives at the green star and finds size 85 Jungle Aquilae. I dono what the scout ships are going to find, but I'm going to assume it wont be a whole lot better than this. A big second planet is a really good thing to have as silicoids. I order the ship to settle. Scouts then reveal the red planet to be Tauri, a size 65 Steppe POOR planet, and the white planet to be size 30 Inferno Phantos. Looks like the percentages played out for us afterall.

I whip up a Scout II design, using the arrow down to give it the same pic as the Scout (something you can only do if you have 5 designs in play allready. It might be some sort of bug that allows it, but I've allways done it.) Then I scrap all the other designs and redesign the Colony Ship (It's still called Colony Ship but it IS redesigned).

I order Cryslon to send 11 or its 44 million to Aquilae, and shift it to producing Scout II's. We'll need 8 of them to scout the rest of the stars. It says it will make 6.

2304 - It lied. We make 7 scouts. Scouts fan out to the 7 farthest stars. I order up 1 more scout and some factories. I could send the scout off of Phantos, since an inferno planet is uncolonizable by everyone but us, of course, but decide not to. I send 1 million more to Aquilae, keeping Cryslon at 33mil.

2305 - The last scout heads out. Annother million heads for Aquillae. We're building factories.

2306 - Two million head for Aquilae.

2307 - Two million head for Aquilae.

2308 - Holy cow. Scouts find size 100 Terran Seidon at the red to the west of the poor planet, just 4 parsects from home. Annother million heads for Aquilae.

2309 - Wow, what a start. Scouts find Size 100 Terran Rha at the red star north of Aquilae and Tauri, and it's only 3 parsects from Aquilae. That means we've allready found 3 Huge planets in our first five scoutings

Or, maybe this ISN'T a great start (kill the band). Scouts find Asteroids at Paranar, the Purple star to the south-southwest, at Volantis, the green star south of Cryslon, AND at Exis, the red star in the nebula southwest of Cryslon (OK, so even WE can't live EVERYWHERE). Thats bad luck to draw so many asteroids nearby. Cryslon dispatches annother million to Aquilae.

Cryslon now has 77 factories, more than enough to employ the 33-35 million citizens it now has. With other races, I'd just keep on building factories or grow some pop at this point. But I think that's counter productive with the Silicoids. Pop costs too dang much to grow in the opening with the rocks, and having 100 factories no one is using isnt useful either. Since there are several planets within 3 parsects, I swap Cryslon over to producing a colony ship. When the factories < (pop+2) X 2, I'll take a turn off of the ship to build more factories.

2310 - Or, maybe it IS that good of a start. Scouts find size 100 Terran Ryoun at the yellow star 6 parsects away... I'd recall the band (aka Maniac's Minstrels) but, umm, with all the asteroids between Cryslon and Ryoun, that's unreachable till range 6 or reserve tanks . With Aquilae at 24/85 +2 on the way, and Cryslon at 35/100, I decide to send a final 2 million to Aquilae.

2311 - Building a Colship/Building Factories.

2312 - OR, maybe the start DOES suck. Scouts find MORE Asteroids at Xengara, the northernmost red in our "backyard". Building Colship/Factories.

2313 - The final scout finds Vox, a size 35 Toxic at our backyard purple star. Cryslon takes a turn of factories to keep ahead of pop.

2314 - Cryslon goes back to the Colship.

2315 -

2316 - The Colship pops a turn ahead of expected, as it said 2 turns still when I clicked next turn. There are 3 choices for where to go with the ship. The 2 logical ones seem to be Tauri, to bring Seidon in range, and Rha, to get started filling up that huge planet. I opt for Rha. Cryslon takes a turn of Factories.

2317 - Cryslon goes back to the colship.

2318 - Building Colship/Factories

2319 - Cryslon takes a turn of Factories.

Nothing happened on the Inter Turn.

NOTES:

I probably sent a few too many pop to Aquillae, but oh well. Since our colony ship is going to arrive at Rha next turn, they are available to send there. I reccomend keeping Aquillae at 28 million and trickleing the pop over to Rha from there, but do whatever you feel is needed.

Considering the size of the planets we have near us (mostly either 100 or 0) I'm not sure it's really feasible to not send pop off the homeworld. I'd reccomend to at least 18 to start the poor planet when we settle it.

Then, by the time we settle the other size 100 planet, Aquillae could probably switch to trickeling pop over to it. If we do this, I'd suggest getting Aquillae to a little over 60 factories and starting research from it, at least propulsion for range 4/5. Again, just a suggestion, not my call, and feel free to do whatever you feel is best.

This is definately an interesting start.



In review, all 3 T planets = size 100, the northernmost one will be settled next turn. The S planet is size 65 poor, and the 2 hostile planets size 30-35.

Roster
Maniac - just played
Therlun - Up Now
Zed-F - on deck
dathon - in the hole
AlanSHB - waiting in the wings
OPEN SLOT - closes when Zed is up.

Here is The Save

Good luck on your 20 turns Therlun.

Dear Diary,
what a crap! The poor colony was founded and scouts were sent to explore new worlds. What did they find? A twin of that worthless piece of dirt...
I refuse to send any colonistst to that POOR thing that calls itself planet though.
Every Silicoid that excesses half the population maximum on my homeworld is send to a REAL colony.


Not long after that (only 2 or 3 years, i had only time to eat twice, and grow once)
Scouts found an unknown ship. However it immediately retreated.


A small planet was found there too.


A 2nd Colony Ship was launched, and the Budget of the Scientist was increased. He now has half a billion Assistents at his dissposal, and will surley be finished shortly.

Dear Diary,
my colony at Aquitane is growing nicely.
The Silicoid of the Homeworld and Aquitane that excess half the maximum are always sent to the new colonies in small and slow ships, but that that are allowed to remain on their planet have a good life!



The scientist told me he is nearly finished, and a breakthrough could happen at any time, so i gave order to him to use his spare time for research in other areas.



Dear Diary, time flows!
It seems the days of my reign are already over!
However in the last month two breackthroughs where made. With cheaper factories and greater range the Empire can grow faster and larger!
I ordered new projects to be started.




Here are some maps of my realm, if i want to remember the status in a milennia or so....



->save<-

sorry for the tripple post, but picture limitation per post, and VERY slow connection to this site (for me at least, and ONLY to this site ) really made that a pain.

there is a colony ship at seidon waiting for orders...
i did put up tax to 2%, research currently only in propulsion and construction.

as i said i only transported the pop that excessed 50 (42 on aquitane).
the pop growth is biggest when half the planet is populated, right!?
i normally tend to negelct poor planets, this time i didnt even send any colonists.
they are too precious for silicoid to be wasted there....

Hey, looks like a pretty good set of turns. You did some things diffrently than I would have, but that doesn't mean that it's bad. It could be better. That's a really nice map at the end.

Don't worry about the tripple post. I've quadruple posted civ reports before. It is slow here sometimes, but they have a LOT of traffic. With all the bandwidth this place uses, I've got to hand it to Thunderfall for just keeping the lights on here.

I don't have time to look at the save right now, so I'll withold further comment till I have time for that tonite on most things. I do notice that the size 30 Inferno planet was in range (3 parsects) so I suspect we should have sent the Colony Ship at Seidon there, but thats a minor issue since that planet isn't really under threat to be colonized, and maybe this works out better anyhow as we can now grab the minimal planet ahead of the Sakkras.

Zed is now Up for 20 turns.

-Maniac

Fighting off the lizards in the nebula isn't my idea of a good time--If we're going west lets try to get to just past the nebula for the solid front line. That green 40 just gained high priority in my mind as the pointgaurd of our western front. Presumably the Sakkra are at one of the two yellows in the northwest corner.

This brings up an unfortunate corollary - With 5 yellows coreward and 6 along the rim I'd expect a somewhat even break on AI placement. In order to avoid early diplomatic embarassment we might want to start pressing coreward--If the humans started in one of the 5 central yellows we do not want them getting a chance to play diplomacy without minders around to prevent unfortunate council votes.

Now looking at possible paths to the center, we come back to the Green 40 + range 6 or the end around the east side of the asteroids. Should be interesting to see what Zed makes of it

Tough call.

Range 6 would seem on the surface to be the better choice. We get a VERY nice planet, and it is the most direct route to the core. However, there are 5 yellow stars somewhat close to that planet, probably 2-3 AI's. Beyond those asteroids, that makes the planet stick out like a sore thumb, and it might be VERY hard to defend if the Klackons or Psilons end up nearby and really want it. Besides that, at that tech price, Range 6 will take a very long time to come in, possibly stunting our growth in other areas. And, if either the Psilons or Klackons are in range of that planet, they may nab it before we can, setting us further behind in making contacts. The worst case would be them getting it after we research the tech, build a ship, and it's on the way.

However, the end around is not without problems. It will require a minimum of two col ships, probably more. It could also take a fair amount of time, as col ships heading for the fringes will take awhile to get there. Plus, we have no way of knowing what those "bridging" planets heading southward are. Could be more asteroids On second thought, that's unlikely, given the 4 systems we've already discovered; my experience tells me the game doesn't go overboard with those in map generation. But, they could also be Poor (or Ultra Poor ) worthless dust balls, or very small hostiles, and not worth that much.

So basically, it's a gamble either way. Up the middle, you're gambling that you can make it in time, and if you do, that you can hold the system. End around, you're gambling that there are decent planets over there AND with a range chain to reach the middle (looks to be a good possibility given our current range and eyeballing it, without seeing the save).

Now, what am I recommending? I'm not. Not my turn But this will probably be a critical decision, and I wanted to put in my strategic two cents worth in analyzing the alternatives.

Good luck Zed! May the Geode Deities Smile Upon You

-dathon

So I tried downloading the attached save to get names to go with the lovely dots and I got the Invalid attachment error--Anyone else get that?

AlanSHB said:

So I tried downloading the attached save to get names to go with the lovely dots and I got the Invalid attachment error--Anyone else get that?

Click to expand...

Me, too. It looks like Maniac used the upload server for his savegame, and presumably NOT an in-line attachment. Therlun, it doesn't look as if the savegame has worked properly, contrast your link with Maniac's savegame link.

Can someone who knows what they are tallking about (I don't) steer us newbies through using the upload server, or provide a link to a tutorial?

Maniac and co, best of luck with your game, I may join the next one. Therlun, that map is indeed a work of art.

Cheers,
Factoid.

->save<- on MY webspace no comment....

i like maps...
wait until you see the ones with enemy empires and strategic movement on it!

ps how did you like my Rha-colony comic?(the "secret link")? it was my first try of "humor" (or kind of) in english

Okie, I'm home from work and downloading the save. My impression is that I'm going to like most of what you did, even though it was diffrent from what I would have done. One of the great things about MoO is it gives real options. Not just bad options (like revolting to Communisim in Civ ) , but real alternatives with no clear best answer.

Expect a long winded breakdown of my take on things in a bit. I'm sort of infamous for that....

In a civ SG one time, meldor, Ridgelake and I (with a little help from Reagan and CB)discussed a between turns situation for like 3 pages (about 50 posts). This completely made poor Charis, who had posted the roster saying he was up, forget he was up and we had to remind him . We became forever known as "The Endless Discussion Crew" after that.

-Maniac

First Edit:

Addressing the comments of Alan and dathon: As regards our frontline being in the nebula, that could be bad later on, but this early it just means we'd have to defend the planets with fighters, making it no worse than if they were, say, poor planets. Also, since neither of them is any great prize, we won't be hurt TOO bad if we lose them, other than possibly losing access to planets further onward.

I still haven't looked at the save, but I don't think I'd crash range 6. If I was going to crash any techs, and I'm not advocating that, it would be Duralloy and whatever we have in Planetology. This should allow us to fit reserve tanks on a Colship (I think... Maybe Zed could run that through Selentines spread sheet?) giving us settling range 8, more ship space, and better ship hulls and combat armor.

Second Edit:

Regarding the Uploads Server, CivFanatics does make it hard to find . It's out of the way of normal viewing. I had to ask when I first came myself. Down at the bottom of the page in a red stripe is a link called Upload File. That's what you are looking for.

i think i dont play in the league some others do.
micro is not my strenght(mainly because i simply dont like it and dont spend too much time with it that way), and while it is less important in moo1 it still is a big part.
i dont care much if i can save a tick of production or two at my homeworld for a turn...

i also have a preference for propulsion, and slitghly less for construction.
even with inferior tech a fast an agile fleet has a strategic advantage.... (in moo only to a certain degree of course)
i simply like my fleets zipping around the map, with no or little range restrictions

when the colony ship was done "range 5" was not yet ready. i had the choice of settling that 30 inferno or not. that wasnt a priority on my list though. (esp since we would get new systems to scout in the east with range 5 no matter if the inferno would be colonized or not)
so i sent it to sidon, to be used for the hopefully rich planets in the nebula north [ok there werent any rich or even very valuable planets in that nebula as it showed...] and increase the range so we could possibly settle west of it for a stable front.

i neglected the building of another colonyship a bit from then on, to fasten up research. there were only hostile, small planets with little or no danger of being taken, so i judged range to be more useful.

there is not one turn of research spent in the new propuslion or construction choices right now since both fields did hit exactly in my last turn.
range 6 would allow us to grab that yellow coreward 100 planet though. (and would probably bring us in contact with some of the other civs. if that would be good or bad....)

WARNING

THE OPINIONS EXPRESSED BELOW REFLECT THE VIEWS OF MANIAC, AND THEREFORE MAY NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS OF A GOOD PLAYER . MANAGMENT WILL CONSIDER REPLY TIME FOR THOSE WITH OPPOSING VIEWS. (Or in other words, I could be wrong on some or all of this)

OK, I've got the save open now. That yellow minimal planet looks like it is NOT in the nebula (the red one is, but its pretty far back from the Sakkra at present. It's also poor making it a really sucky planet.), so no biggie there. I think the yellow is where the colship should head.

The empire wide tax... I'm not particularly fond of that, especially because we are the Silicoids. The odds of us NOT geting a few Rich planets in this size universe is pretty long against. Rich planets are the best way to get reserves because they get arround the issue of the 50% loss that universal taxation causes. I'm not going to order that we stop that, but I'm asking for input from others on that. Is that something the rest of you usually do? I think we should either all agree to keep it or agree to dump it and stick with that.

Getting range 5 was critical, and I'm glad you got that for us on your turn. It's hard luck that we got only Range 5 then only Range 6, but that's the way it is sometimes. Getting cheaper factories this early is a big shot in the arm too, so good job there for sure.

Not sending ANYONE to the poor planet... I won't say thats awful, and I could be totally wrong here, but I don't like that. Not sending a big wad there given our population challenges, I'd say ok, and that may be the best way to go (although I'd probably have automatically sent 20 million, that may not have been wise of me). But not sending anyone... I think you should have at least sent 8 or 10 to get it 1/6th full, even if it meant sending them from Cryslon. It takes FOREVER for those first few pop points to start growing. As it now has 8 million, I'd probably just let it be now though.

Don't underestimate the value of poor planets. While they do take a long time to max out, and they aren't ever going to build you a huge space fleet, they ARE nice places to research off of after they get maxed out. Large poor planets can eventually become very valuble (ok, this one isn't exactly large and may never ammount to much...). The size 100 or so poor planet I had in Imp 7 was one of my most valuable planets in the long run because it was able to do a lot of research.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is how I probably would have played it. NOTE: This MAY NOT have been best.

When Rha was settled, I'd have sent every colonist in excess of 1/3 of 85 (28 for those keeping score at home ) from Aquilae to Rha, then sent 1-2 million over every turn till Rha got to about 30 pop.

When the 2nd colship reached the poor planet, I'd have sent it 20 million from the homeworld to get it 1/3 full.

Then when we settled the next size 100 planet, I'd have sent every pop point in excess of 1/3 (until we had 31 at least) from the other planets in this order - Poor Planet, Rha, Aquillae, Cryslon.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, here is WHY that ISN'T the difinitive approach. The Home planet and "2nd planet" are special cases for us. Cryslon is the colony ship builder, and Aquillae is our researcher. In this case, I can not fault keeping those planets half full as we needed the range tech and the colony ships ASAP. Therefore, your approach may actually be the equal or better of mine.

However, I do wan't to point out that, though it may seem ilogical, keeping/filling planets to half full is NOT the most efficient way to grow pop in the early game. The key # to pop growth efficiency is actually ONE THIRD. I'd try to explain why, but there is no way I could do a better job of that than Charis did in This Thread

*I just saw your latest reply as I was pasting this up from notepad, so I inserted a few comments here at the last minute*

It isn't for me to judge who's a good player and who isn't, especially on one set of turns. I know I'm not the best player arround. That's not an issue anyway. As long as a player is trying his best and having fun, I'm happy to have him on the team.

For what it's worth, I wish I was a bettet report writer. You're clearly better at that than I am.

Your also clearly having fun . Isn't that what really counts? (It is to me.)

At the end of the day, micro isn't that big of a deal in MoO except on small maps. I can be a bit anal about it since I usually play small maps . Please don't let it bother you.

I don't think any fields in MoO are uber, nor should any be neglected. I just feel in this case, Duralloy is better than range 6 because it gives our colships range 8. That isn't my call though, and I might be wrong.

All in all, a pretty good set of turns I think.

I really enjoyed reading your "diary reports". I really wish I had the ability to write good in character reports.

That picture of us settling Rha was really funny.

You accomplished a lot for the Silicoid Empire. Now its up to Zed to keep up our momentum.

Notes for Zed whos up for the next 20. (Not that he needs my advice really....)

Consider opening the other research fields.

We really DO need annother Colship ASAP to grab that size 30 Inferno planet. We can't neglect expansion in that direction either. If somone is at that nearest yellow in the southeast, they could threaten our "backyard". *good explanation about the colship Therlun, and it WAS the best move, even though the nebula didn't pan out for us*

We have more planets to scout than we have scout ships to send (not counting the ones "defending" planets), and making scouts off Cryslon isn't a good option right now as we pop 17 just in the current colship overun. We probably should have looked ahead when we started range 5 and counted planets and made some extra scouts and sent them to the outlying planets so that that'd be ready to head out when range 5 hit, but I admit to having not allways (read in lots of times ) remembering to to that myself.

-Maniac

empire tax does only count as 50%?
i thought that only apllies to planets using the industry->reserve option.
then it is of course some kind of a waste....
but as i stated im not into mirco.
2% per round wont have any influence ->I<- notice, but it will accumulate to a nice bolster over time. the micro-cracks from our group will surely adjust it if they need to. but thats also why i said it and even made a "boring" screenie of the tax.

i dont "ignore" poor planets, but i neglect them.
our population was(and still will be) much better used in the two 100 planets IMO.
i wouldnt (and i didnt ) sent 20mio from 50 mio as silicoid...
the growth of 4 planets on 33% pop might be larger then the growth of 2 planets on 50% pop, but normally i prefer to keep a good production base at home for faster colship production. my growthcurve starts later but rises faster in the end. and on this map it may even pay off
if that thread you linked is correct the growthrate-change is smaller then i thought, and it might indeed be a mistake to keep at 50% pop though...
ironically i only used this 50%pop-shipping with silicoids until now.
with all all other races my colonies get a 12-16 pop start at least.

good luck zed, treat our empire well

Ok. I'd like to vote against the empire wide tax--it really hurts developing planets, much easier to use the reserves via rich/ultrarich planets later to move production about.

As for the poor planet--It's a great source of low oportunity cost population. I much prefer med-large poor early on than a small rich. The majority of our production is worker based, so larger worlds make for faster population--even with the slow-growing rocks.

Alan