Research Q&A

Pedrov approached me with an interesting idea, which is to keep a thread going strictly for research questions. At least 10 people have expressed an interest in actively answering questions, so here goes.

The "rules" are simple - post a question and someone knowledgeable and willing will give you a hand. The only caveat is that, if you haven't done at least a simple Google, you might not get much help.

Best Regards,

Oz

... And our first question is from Mistfit:

"Can I get someone to list names of sailing vessels that the English might have used during the Age of Sail so I can google them for images? Example: Man 'o War"

Best,

Oz

Thanks to both Bóreas and pedrov for your answers both were very helpful

Bóreas said:

i'll give you what I know:
-Great Harry(Henry Grace à Dieu)
-Ark Royal
-HMS surprise, HMS victory
Steam ships:
-Sirius
-Great Western
-Great Britain
-Great Eastern(good wonder)
-Warrior
-Devastation(1871)
-Turbinia(1896)
-Dreadnought, Mauretania, Vulcania(1907)

Click to expand...

pedrov said:

Don't know yet if this is the right place to ask, and I'm not a naval person, but I did stumble across a listing of English vessels in the late period (1780-1840) of the Age of Sails (roughly 1600-1850). I also can't vouch for the credibility of the cite... but if you're really in a hurry. We need a volunteer that knows naval & maritime history.

http://www.cronab.demon.co.uk/INTRO.HTM

best-o-luck.

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I agree that the Great Easten would make a great wonder!

alright, as i said on the original thread, here's a list:
Great Harry(Henry grâce à Dieu)
Ark Royal
HMS Victory
and the steam ships:
Sirius
Great Western
Great Britain
Great Eastern(also works as a good wonder)
Warrior
Devastation
Turbinia
Dreadnought
Mauretania
Vulcania

Obs: the last 4 may not be considered from the age of sail

Edit: sorry about the spammin' but you posted when i was typing...

Such a good idea. I have a sort of question, but really more of a general need:

I've been trying to (with little success so far) find some general, but detailed, information about the Adena, Hopewell, Cahokian, and other native cultures from the Mississippian basin.

As you can guess, I want to make a civ out of these guys, so it would be really usefull to have info that can help me determine city lists, leaders, traits, civilopedia, etc.

Thanks for any help anyone can give me.

RedAlert said:

Such a good idea. I have a sort of question, but really more of a general need:

I've been trying to (with little success so far) find some general, but detailed, information about the Adena, Hopewell, Cahokian, and other native cultures from the Mississippian basin.

As you can guess, I want to make a civ out of these guys, so it would be really usefull to have info that can help me determine city lists, leaders, traits, civilopedia, etc.

Thanks for any help anyone can give me.

Click to expand...

I can give you a "city list" but it would mostly be the English language (and a few Native American) names for the sites -- would that be helpful?

-Oz

Anything you can get would be great, thank you.

Cahokia
Utz
Towosahgy
Chucalissa
Hiwassee
Etowah
Ocmulgee
Kolomoki
Aztalan (seriously -- not Aztec; near Lake Michigan)
Kathio
(personally, I also use Native American River names -- Mississippi; Tennessee; Ohio; Chattahoochie)

Non-Native American Names:

Grand Mound
Emerald Mound
Moundville
Winterville
Kings Mounds
Old Fort
Dickson
Huber
Fisher
Moccasin Bluff
Owl Creek
Rock Eagle
Grand Village

... and a host of other such non-inspiring names.

Good for now?

-Oz

RedAlert said:

Such a good idea. I have a sort of question, but really more of a general need:

I've been trying to (with little success so far) find some general, but detailed, information about the Adena, Hopewell, Cahokian, and other native cultures from the Mississippian basin.

As you can guess, I want to make a civ out of these guys, so it would be really usefull to have info that can help me determine city lists, leaders, traits, civilopedia, etc.

Thanks for any help anyone can give me.

Click to expand...

I fired off an email to an anthropologist friend of mine who researches these cultures specifically. I'll let you know (maybe PM) if he comes up with anything else.

pedrov said:

I fired off an email to an anthropologist friend of mine who researches these cultures specifically. I'll let you know (maybe PM) if he comes up with anything else.

Click to expand...

PM RedAlert by all means but also please post -- I'm curious as well.

Thanks,

Oz

It will probably be a few days before I hear back from him. I'll post if he has anything to add.

Does anybody have any information on the military history of the Mississippi Moundbuilders, too?

Mithadan said:

Does anybody have any information on the military history of the Mississippi Moundbuilders, too?

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Others may know immediately, but I'm finding out more about the Mississippi-basin cultures generally. You may want to check this post from time to time in the coming week. I assume you mean the Mississippi mound builders as separate from other mound-building cultures on the Mississippi river (e.g., those at Cahokia).

Well (my ignorance shows) I'm up for information on the military history of any of the moundbuilder cultures of the Mississippi. Pictures would be the best, but rather unlikely, I'm afraid.

Mithadan said:

Well (my ignorance shows) I'm up for information on the military history of any of the moundbuilder cultures of the Mississippi. Pictures would be the best, but rather unlikely, I'm afraid.

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I stumbled across the picture yesterday, in case you're interested in unit making. You can google a bunch of sources on warfare among these various tribes. However, this is a fairly stable period of life for native americans (hence the settling down in cities) in this region... much more outstanding for its commerce than warfare.

The image is from some collection of miniatures (men-at-arms 200-something) and is from the Woodland period, which I believe is the relatively-quiet time most of this settlement stuff was thriving. I've seen other sources that hypothesize that the mound-building cultures were splinter tribes of the groups that settled mexico (such as the Aztecs) and so, the argument goes, their style of warfare would be similar. I'm not sure I buy this personally. The aztec culture was very much a product of its location. Its agricultural practices were very different, relying more on local agriculture than say the Cahokians. Therefore, the idea of wandering raiding parties using hunting weapons interchangeably as war weapons seems less likely for the Aztecs than the mound builders. The style of warfare practiced by the aztecs was far more focused on capturing prisoners for sacrifice than killing enemies in battle. The aztecs developed very specialized weapons for this (e.g., clubs with very shallow blades that could injure with a low risk of killing). As far as I know, the mound-building cultures did not engage in sacrifice killing at anywhere near the level of the aztecs and other south & central american cultures. I understand that some bodies were recovered at Cahokia that showed signs of sacrificial death, but nothing widespread seems to have been associated with this practice.

Seems I know a lot more about aztecs than mound builders. My source is:
"Aztecs" by Inga Clendinnnen, if anyone is interested in learning more about the aztec society, history, religion, and art of war.

Edit: in hindsight, one of these guys has a gun! Must have grabbed the wrong picture.

I found a great site about the Mississippian Era <<<<Here>>>> it mostly covers governments but also had this map
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/mississippian_world_map.jpg
Note the town names

Great stuff, guys! (Too bad that's the wrong picture that got uploaded, tho...and so small!)

As to the Aztec connection, I certainly get a feel for it from seeing the sculpture and what the mounds a actually looked like (I just figgered they'd be more conical lumps).

As to unit making, no I can't do that. The pictures are helpful for me in that I can see what existing graphics we already have, and then try to find some that match (approximately) what they're supposed to represent. Currently I'm using Kinboat's Iroquois Warrior (the one with the ironwood War Club) for that period, simply because I have no idea what their "units" might have looked like.

Here's some more info on our steadily-growing Mississippian culture thread . From what I've been seeing, the closest culture to that of the Mound Builders that still persisted by the time of European contact was the Natchez culture. Apparently, they practiced some of the same rituals that the earlier mound-builders did (sorry, don't know the details). However, if such a connection does exist, one might expect that European descriptions of the Natchez might be the best starting place for understanding the earlier cultures. I'm pretty far out of my element here, but I also think the early Natchez coexisted with some of the late mound-building cultures.

Here's a picture of a Natchez warrior of the Woodlands period (this time without a gun , typewriter, or GPS system).

Awesome! Now I finally know what to do with that native american swordsman.

And thanks for all your help so far, guys. Please, keep it coming!

Question : does naybody have names for good military leaders for Ireland, France, League, North Africa and Netherlands between 1580-1640 ?