HNDY10 - AWDG Regular Pangaea No Pillaging

Always War Demi God C3C 1.22 As the Ottoman Oppressors
Grumpy Old Men of Always War - Our starting position will make even the Grumpy old men smile.

The pillaging restriction did not slow us down in this AWDG Small Pangaea victory. This game will see how it works on a regular size Pangaea map.




Pillaging Restriction: Basically no pillaging by armies is allowed. Land units cannot bypass a city without destroying it first. Sea units can go anywhere and drop off land units on any coast. The land units must then destroy the coastal cities before passing them either inland or along the coast (though they can bypass the coastal city by getting back on the boat). The idea here is to lessen the AI weakness of ignoring armies completely and allowing the human massive pillaging freedom. If the AI didn't have this weakness, you could pillage coastal resources by using boats, but inland resources would require fighting your way there. Thus guerilla type hit and run pillaging by non-army units is allowed. In other words, you can drop off a smaller force by boat, pillage, and get away again instead of being killed.

Patch: 1.22 C3C
Level: DG
Variant: Always War
Civilization: Ottoman Empire
Water: 70% water (middle setting)
Map Type: Pangaea
Size:Standard
Age: 5 Billion
Temperature: Warm
Climate: Wet
Barbarians: Roaming
Rivals: Random
AI Aggression: Normal
Victory Condition: All are enabled.
Culturally linked starts: I don’t remember – probably OFF
Respawn: Off
Preserve Random Seed: On
Cultural Conversion: On

Roster and Order of Play
Handy
Sir Bugsy
Greebley out 11-20 to 11-30
grs
Northern Pike
microbe


Lucky candle to light the way.

Always War Boilerplate as we play it
You may only trade when you first meet a civilization, and must declare war on the same turn after trading is complete. If you see a new AI unit, you must make contact & declare war that turn. Absolutely no turn based trade (such as GPT) allowed. If you see a new face on F4, you are obligated to declare war that turn (after trading). Players must declare war if they are exploring and see AI units, but are not required to actually attack the units they come in contact with. No peace treaties, ever. You may check F4 as often as you like to spy on the AI's tech, resources, luxuries & city count. We are not allowed to build embassies .

Discuss any move that seems exploitive before doing it with the team. Although there are not too many exploits available in AW, we’ll follow the forbidden blatant exploits banned by GOTM and RBCiv such as no "Free Wealth". Other normal game exploits such as "Baiting the AI" with an empty city to create a kill zone are an AW tradition and are allowed. Also, you ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle. This is considered an exploit in RBCiv rules, but is okay in our AW games. In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it. We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves. You may whip at will, including captured cities or cities where all citizens are unhappy.

SG Stuff
You have 24 hours for an "I got it" and 72 to play. If you need a one day extension, then mention this before the 72 hours are up. Players can work out skips between themselves, just post a message to the thread. If you can't play within 72 total, switch places or ask for a skip. We will play 10 turns at first, and possibly fewer later (5) if the turns begin to take too long.

Sign me up! Never had AW experience beyond Monarchy, but what the heck, I'll play.

Let's talk before we play. Since grs finished off the last game we'll just keep going in the same order and I will kick us off.

We are on a BG tile currently. Is it worth moving two tiles NW N to settle on the coast on a regular grass tile so we can pop the hut when we settle?

If we settle red, then blue, these two cities can be MM'd to maximize the cows they would share.

microbe said:

Sign me up! Never had AW experience beyond Monarchy, but what the heck, I'll play.

Click to expand...

OK

I would do blue/red. We do not gain much from a hut in DG, probably maps. If I am not mistaken we will never get barbs from a hut poped be settling a town (not expanding borders). IIRC, that does make blue/red better (less movement), doesn't it?

Red is a very nice spot, but probably not worth moving 2 tiles for our first settler. But I don't quite like blue, as it's not coasal and thus will be stuck with at least 2 1-food tiles. I would probably move to east on the forest and settle, and 2nd settler goes to red. Will it guarantee that we won't pop up barbs at that time?

As long as we have zero military we cannot pop barbs from a border expansion (or from building a city).

I'm not a fan of the forest (or blue dot first) for the capital. I'd like to settle the capital on the lake so we do not have to build an aqueduct in the capital. That may be worth the extra move to red. I place a priority on the capital being able to work all 3 cows, and have fresh water. [Perhaps I have tunnel vision here ] Then we can mine all three and still have 5 extra food which will make the capital a powerhouse city.

Coastal is not real important, but the option to work 3 cows in the capital is way powerful. My @.02, but I'm a team player and willing to go with the flow.

Amazing! I've never seen a start like that!

We don't want three cows in the capitol. I'd go for red dot.

I favour red dot, both for the free aqueduct (so to speak) and because a town there will be able to produce a settler and a warrior on a four-turn cycle in despotism. The latter point may matter less in AW, but having our settler-generating capital produce 10 spt at size five should be useful under any circumstances.

We may not want to settle blue dot at all. If another BG appears in red dot's radius, so that we can afford to lose one, we should probably put our second city where our settler now stands, for the sake of another free aqueduct.

I agree that the red dot should be our top priority. Two turns move is not a big deal in my book (some people feel moving is terrible, but if I look at a game in 1050 BC vs 1000 BC, I can't tell the difference). In any case having two cows with in or first border expansion will actually cause us to catch up and pass a position with only 1 cow - we will get more shields and growth by the 10th turn. If we are not on the lake, then when we are at size 6 growing in 1 and settler in 1 (or 2), we do will not be size 5 the next turn, but size 4 with a full granary, which is annoying - again we will lose more shield by being size 4 all the time than we would save by only moving 1 square.

The other alternative is to settle in place and then settle the red dot as well as our second city. It will be a low corruption city that can also build settlers or units.

I think I'll move.

N Pike said:

We may not want to settle blue dot at all. If another BG appears in red dot's radius, so that we can afford to lose one, we should probably put our second city where our settler now stands, for the sake of another free aqueduct.

Click to expand...

Now that is a very interesting idea. Twin cities on the lake.

I'll play this on Sunday.

Amazing! I've never seen a start like that!

Click to expand...

It was the second one I rolled. The first was in the middle of the mini map. Certain death with a northern & southern front.

We don't want three cows in the capitol. I'd go for red dot.

Click to expand...

Typo

Turn 0 4000 BC
Moving

Turn 1 3950
Start a mine

Turn 2 3900
We got 25 gold from the hut.
Going to begin a barracks that may get switched to a spear.
Research Warrior Code. I chose this in case we get an early contact that wants to pillage our cows.

Turn 5 3750
Mine done. Begin road.

Turn 6 3700
Warrior begins to scout.
Building a barracks

Turn 7 3650
Start on the next cow.
Another cow is located to the NW.
Imagine if we were Sumer in this game.

Turn 8 3600
Very nice land to the north.

Turn 9 3550
We grow, lux gets bumped.

Turn 12 3400
Mime done, start a road, border expansion. Still no sign of ice in the north.

Turn 14 3300
Move to the 3rd cow.
Still cannot tell what the luxury to the south is. Please let is be ivory. J
Lux now 40% since we are size 3.

Turn 15 3250
Barracks done -> spear

Turn 18 3100
spear – spear

Turn 20 3000
We are building a road on the third cow.
The capital has 3 BS’s in addition to the cow.
The spot S of the worker could grab the lux for us, share the 3 cows + 2BGs with the capital and work the fish.
N Pikes’ twin cities on the lake are also a viable option.
Greebley can decide what to do.
Probably should settle toward the AI (South) while we can. We can settle the North later. There is no tundra up north, just grasslands. Hopefully there is a lucky iron mountain up north also, or at least horses.

I’ll be gone Tuesday, Wednesday & Thursday night. If this gets back to me jump over me and I’ll get back in Friday Night.

I have it....

These were so boring, I won’t even write a Early, Middle, Late. I built a spear and two settlers out of Istanbul. Settled Edrine on the west coast in 2630 BC, and Bursa to the south on the last turn next to the ivory. We just discovered WC. I selected the Wheel next, although pottery is cheaper.

We have an extremely defensible position. A lot like Handy 8 without the Arabs right next door.

SITREP


Save: http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/HNDY10,_2550_BC.SAV

Handy
Sir Bugsy
Greebley UP
grs
Northern Pike
microbe

I though it was Greebley then Bugsy

Sorry if my post threw you off Bugs. Greebley is in the drivers seat.

I hope this is not a replay of the Sid game where we were the ironless Australians.

Got it

Preturn: Since we haven't met anyone yet I change to Pottery instead. We probably don't care too much about building chariots at the moment. I would like more rapid expansion while we can get away with it.

Early: Take out the Barb camp for 25 gold.

Mid: Take out a second Barb camp for 25 more.

Late: We get our Granary. I also irrigate a cow for +5 food.

Notes:
Pulled units back in so I could lower Lux. When we get the Ivory we can put them back on sentry.

We have a granary in the Capitol. Lets keep it at 5 food and making settlers. Bursa is only 4 from building a Barracks and can produce our units.

We will need to MM our capitol and Bursa to maximize shields. Istanbul will probably need the +2 food and +2 shields square back.

Nothing new to see so I am not posting a new map.

In a sense, this setup is dangerous in that the AI is expanding unmolested by our units. For that reason, I think we need to push our own growth as fast as we can. I would settle mostly in the unexplored direction. We need to be big enough to fend off 7 Demi-god AI. Keep the capitol on a settler every 4 turns until the lands are full. For backfilling, I would only grab enough so that if the AI sets up some towns we can take them out relatively easily.

Handy
Sir Bugsy
Greebley UP
grs UP
Northern Pike
microbe

Got it and will play tonight.

I am going on a trip for thanksgiving. The dates are in my sig. Skip me for these times.

I think we should found our next two cities on these spots. It's not that they're great sites, but this would be an efficient arrangement making use of every land tile in the area, and allowing Bursa and the two new cities 11-12 land tiles each (not counting their home squares).