Supply

frekk · Nov 24, 2004

Tracing Supply Lines

Supply lines are traced just like resources are, by roads, harbours and airports. However, supply lines differ in several key ways:

-supply lines can be traced back to any friendly city or airfield, rather than the capitol.
-supply lines extend offroad or into enemy borders for a limited distance, perhaps 3-4 tiles. However, they may not be traced through enemy units of any kind, cities, or Zones of Control.

Effects of Supply Lines

Units may function without supplies for a variable number of turns. Generally speaking, this figure drops as technology progresses. A Warrior or Spearman is capable of foraging for food and can go without supplies for a long time, but a Modern Armour unit is dependant on constant supplies. Exceptions occur to this rule, for instance Guerillas are capable of functioning without supplies for a much longer time than comparable units.

Units that find themselves out of supplies are reduced to a movement of 1, and attack and defend at half strength.

Display of Supply

Supply is displayed in two ways. First, a button at the main map level overlays the map with shaded tiles depicting the range of supply. Second, in the unit display box (where the remaining moves etc are displayed) the supply status of the unit is shown. Statuses displayed are:

-Supplied.
-Unsupplied: turns remaining.
-Out of Supply.

Aussie_Lurker · Nov 24, 2004

So Frekk, you've seen MY model for supply, do you like either of them?

My ideal model would most probably be a 'fusion' of the two I mentioned. Basically, that a unit can go freely into enemy territory UP to its operational range. After this, it begins to suffer from degredation. If you capture a city or build a fort in enemy territory, then your operational range is calculated from this new point. Where the fusion occurs, though, is that you also have to always be able to trace a direct line between the unit and some kind of friendly territory. The 'supply points' just make it much easier to do this, as they represent a 'shortening' of your supply lines. If your unit ends up 'out of supply' then it might end up highlighted in either red or black to warn you.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

frekk · Nov 24, 2004

Wouldn't it be difficult to model degradation in a simple way?

Rod · Nov 24, 2004

Hello,

at least it can function like following.
Every unit has some different supply points. A jet fighter has only one point (so it has to come back to its airport, like now) an infantry unit has e.g. 5-10 points. A unit with zero supply points is either immovable (land, naval) or crashes (air).

You have something like a new supply unit. It represent e.g, the tross after the medival armies or the mobile petrol stations of modern warfare.

All your cities, harbour and airports can refill a unit as the supply units can refill units (so when unit is standing on the same field like a supply unit it will be filled automatically).

This refilling is functioning quite easy. Every supply unit has 20 or more supply points. When another unit is coming on the same field then supply points of the supply units are decreased and supply points of other unit are increased.

So in gameplay you just have to build supply units, move them to your cities and move them behind your units. When a fighting unit is tending to have to less supply points then you move it to your supply unit or your supply unit to the fighting unit - quite easy, but very realistic. When fighting units are conquering opponent cities they can also refill their supply points there, as they do when you want to repair them.

Aussie_Lurker · Nov 26, 2004

Hi Frekk,

Simulating degredation can be done VERY simply. For every hex your unit is beyond its optimal range, it suffers a 5% reduction to its morale, firepower and, most likely, its attack and defense strengths. In addition, this is also the chance, per turn, that the unit will suffer damage from attrition. The chance to suffer damage will also change according to terrain factors AND the amount of damage the unit has already suffered! Secondly, a unit outside its OR can NOT heal-even after battlefield medicine.
If your units performance is degraded, it will undergo some kind of 'graphical' alteration to inform you this is the case!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

frekk · Nov 26, 2004

5% is a too-small increment, given current stats used for ADM which I doubt very much will change.

Aussie_Lurker · Nov 26, 2004

I confess that I just picked a number out of the air. The main issue is that the further you get beyond your optimal range, the worse your units perform, AND the more likely they are to lose hps due to hunger, disease, desertion and/or breakdowns!

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

Dreadnought · Nov 26, 2004

In Rise of Nations you need a supply wagon or something to keep your units from loosing health in enemy territory. There could be something like that, right?

searcheagle · Nov 26, 2004

There absolutely could be a resupply unit, especially if units will take hits for being outside of resupply limits.

I like the idea of a supply unit that can be moved by truck (a new unit with the ability to transport infantry units or supplies on the the ground), and helicopters and airplanes which can drop supplies for ground units.

Samoht_Okpoh · Nov 26, 2004

But shouldn't pillaging resupply the unit, at least a little?

Zeekater · Nov 26, 2004

Samoht_Okpoh said:
But shouldn't pillaging resupply the unit, at least a little?

Before WW2, yes.

Another cool thing would be applying 'scorched earth'

Spatula · Nov 26, 2004

I'm a little sceptical.....although the current system of having all resources and luxury connecting through your capital isn't good. There's coal in the North right? I doubt it has to go all the way through London to get to any other place.

To gain a resource or luxury you should have to be connected to the city that has them in their radius, not the capital.

douche_bag · Nov 26, 2004

frekk said:
Tracing Supply Lines

Supply lines are traced just like resources are, by roads, harbours and airports. However, supply lines differ in several key ways:

-supply lines can be traced back to any friendly city or airfield, rather than the capitol.
-supply lines extend offroad or into enemy borders for a limited distance, perhaps 3-4 tiles. However, they may not be traced through enemy units of any kind, cities, or Zones of Control.

Effects of Supply Lines

Units may function without supplies for a variable number of turns. Generally speaking, this figure drops as technology progresses. A Warrior or Spearman is capable of foraging for food and can go without supplies for a long time, but a Modern Armour unit is dependant on constant supplies. Exceptions occur to this rule, for instance Guerillas are capable of functioning without supplies for a much longer time than comparable units.

Units that find themselves out of supplies are reduced to a movement of 1, and attack and defend at half strength.

Display of Supply

Supply is displayed in two ways. First, a button at the main map level overlays the map with shaded tiles depicting the range of supply. Second, in the unit display box (where the remaining moves etc are displayed) the supply status of the unit is shown. Statuses displayed are:

-Supplied.
-Unsupplied: turns remaining.
-Out of Supply.

Their stats shouldn't decrease but i like the foraging idea.Maybe after a certian amount of turns they have to stop for a turn to get food or ammo.If you're following a road that is connected to you're capital,you should never have to do this

frekk · Nov 26, 2004

Spatula said:
I'm a little sceptical.....although the current system of having all resources and luxury connecting through your capital isn't good. There's coal in the North right? I doubt it has to go all the way through London to get to any other place.

To gain a resource or luxury you should have to be connected to the city that has them in their radius, not the capital.

That's not how it works now. You connect to the resource itself already. The only time you connect to the capitol for resources is for foreign trade. Eg, say you have coal and a bunch of cities in the North, and London and a bunch of cities in the south, but no roads between them. If you connect to the coal, all your cities in the north will have coal, but not those in the south (unless you build a road joining north and south). Your capitol doesn't come into play, unless you are importing the coal - or hoping to export it.

frekk · Nov 26, 2004

douche_bag said:
Their stats shouldn't decrease

If their stats don't decrease, what is the point of supply?

A melee-type army with no food really doesn't fight so good, a modern army with no bullets or oil can hardly fight at all.

Jon Shafer · Nov 26, 2004

Dreadnought said:
In Rise of Nations you need a supply wagon or something to keep your units from loosing health in enemy territory. There could be something like that, right?

The problem is that in a game like RoN, you can easily target enemy Supply Wagons and slow him down. In Civ you're dealing with large stacks, so any units at the "bottom" of the stack are pretty much invincible.

douche_bag · Nov 27, 2004

frekk said:
If their stats don't decrease, what is the point of supply?

A melee-type army with no food really doesn't fight so good, a modern army with no bullets or oil can hardly fight at all.

Well i dont think they should just slowly increase by 1,if their out of ammo or gas,or food then their stats should all be decreased to 0 and then that way they can be captured.

Pook · Nov 27, 2004

frekk said:
Tracing Supply Lines
Supply lines are traced just like resources are, by roads, harbours and airports. However, supply lines differ in several key ways:
-supply lines can be traced back to any friendly city or airfield, rather than the capitol.
-supply lines extend offroad or into enemy borders for a limited distance, perhaps 3-4 tiles. However, they may not be traced through enemy units of any kind, cities, or Zones of Control.

I like both the Operational Range and Supply Lines ideas. To simplify calculating the range, why not just use movement points as a basis? In order to be in supply/op range, a unit must be within so many movement points of a friendly city. This would take into consideration the effects of terrain, building roads, and enemy territory.

frekk · Nov 27, 2004

Sure ... that is one way you could do it.

You could even allow certain techs to let you be further MPs away from the source. Motor transport for instance should give a bonus.

Spatula · Nov 27, 2004

frekk said:
If you connect to the coal, all your cities in the north will have coal, but not those in the south (unless you build a road joining north and south).

That north-south road will usually be connected to the capital anyway, which is why I perceived it to be the way I said.

Supply

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