DMan1 - Operation Iron Cross (aka Panzers attack)

I've been toying with this idea on using UUs only in warfare. And since I don't recall when i last play Germans and they have a superior UU i thought it would be fun to do a SG variant...

So...
Here is the game:

Version: Conquests b.1.22
Nationality: Germans
World Size: Standard
Barbarians: Restless
Land mass: Continents 70% Water
Climate: Normal
Temperature: Warm
Age: 5 Billion

Victory type: Conquest or Domination only for us, but all default victory types are enabled so AI can use any to win.

Difficulty level: Demigod

Variant:
We can only use Panzers for offensive war. Before we invent Motorized Transportation all our wars will have to be defensive. Our units can only enter enemy territory to counter attack and pick up AIs units in open field. They must return back immediately. We can not attack AIs cities before we have Panzers.
Until we have Panzers we can not capture nor can we raze cities. The only allowed way to get AI cities if it flips to us or within peace deal.
Once Panzers invented we shall build our armies to conquer the world. We can use Panzers and Panzers only to do offensive warfare… However we are allowed to use all bombardment units including all kinds of artillery, navy and bombers to support our armored legions. We can use all other units as defenders and military police.


This game will emphasize our ability for fast expansion and grabbing the land. It will also emphasize our ability to trade and research at maximum speed in early stages of game.
And at the end we will get all time favorite industrial age warfare with lots of tanks and artillery.

Proposed Startup Picture:




Roster:

1. dmanakho
2. Bed_head7
3. Smackster
4. Tomasjj
5. Dl123654
6. Gozpel

I would like to have players who are comfortable playing on emperor and dg levels.


Standard SG ruleset applies

I'd like one of those two open slots. Panzers are fun.

Give me one turn with those Panzers, that it all I ask, just one turn.

I'll join, although my play time will be spotty until December 30th.

I don't propose wandering too far in this one , but do think we should at least do one turn of scouting, the maximum view I can see with one turn is worker north and settler west. Then we could move the settler south to the hill, and settle there unless something else is seen.

That would mean just two moves and a maximum view seen.

smackster

Ok. I have Smackster, bed_head and myself...
i am opening all the reservations i intended to keep for a while for my SGOTM teammates and i will post in SG registry thread to hire rest of the team.

Hopefully we will be ready soon.
We do need to discuss starting moves...
I wonder what lays on the other side of river W from us.

dmanakho said:

Hopefully we will be ready soon.
We do need to discuss starting moves...
I wonder what lays on the other side of river W from us.

Click to expand...

That is why I was thinking move the settler W. If it sees anything good, then the cattle is still in range upon expansion.

Also if we settle in place we will have 2 sea tiles pretty much wasted after Berlin expands...
Even if we find nothing by moving settler one tile west would be the better place to found Berlin.

OK, how about moving the settler first. Then we see what we have. If we like the land then move the worker to the cow and irrigate that. If we don't like the land, then we can make a worker movement to the mountain just to see what is there.

I believe its worth moving the worker away from where its going to work, to give yourself a chance for better land.

Ouch.. this SG reminded me I never finished my turns in AVS3 SG
about a month ago

Might be worth reading up on that game for you btw since its basically same rules except it was to wait for nukes for offensive war instead of panzer.

I moved settler west and here is what we have...
We have cow and wheat within city radius after Berlin expands...
Looks like a perfect settler factory to me..
We need to think on worker moves.
In order to irrigate cow we will have to irrigate startup tile and then move to cow, irrigate and road it, then move to BG road and mine, then move towards wheat tile.
I will be playing the full set of my turns on either tomorrow night or early Dec. 26th

Gyathaar said:

Ouch.. this SG reminded me I never finished my turns in AVS3 SG
about a month ago

Might be worth reading up on that game for you btw since its basically same rules except it was to wait for nukes for offensive war instead of panzer.

Click to expand...

I believe that makes a big difference, nukes are not as much fun as panzers IMHO and it takes a lot longer to wait for nukes to be invented. I will certainly check that thread! Thank you!

dmanakho said:

I believe that makes a big difference, nukes are not as much fun as panzers IMHO and it takes a lot longer to wait for nukes to be invented. I will certainly check that thread! Thank you!

Click to expand...

We got tanks in 1405AD, nukes in 1505AD.. so was just 20 turns later

What I meant was the similar part was the no offensive wars thou.. us never declaring wars or forming alliances, made the world incredibly peaceful.. there was hardly any wars at all untill early 1400-hundreds.. when the world exploded in a huge world war that never ended.

Dont see anything about not declaring wars, forming alliances or MPP in your rules thou.. so might not be the same afterall

We want to maximise the tech pace to get to MT, so we would want to be selective about wars in any case. With a 4 turn settler factory we should be able to make a good expansion.

Do you want to add another rule to stop settler tunneling, or we could keep squeezing the AI out, or that is kind of trick fair game. Maybe we can win before we get to MT

smackster said:

Do you want to add another rule to stop settler tunneling, or we could keep squeezing the AI out, or that is kind of trick fair game. Maybe we can win before we get to MT

Click to expand...

settler tunneling - what is that???
We can try to squeeze AIs out... As a matter of fact it is totally within the rule if we manage to get a lot of culture so AIs cities flip to us... I don't think it is going to be realistic on demigod level though.

My thoughts on wars:
We can have wars, we can declare wars at any time we want...
We can have alliances, MPPs, etc...
According to the rules we only CAN NOT have offensive wars, we can not capture cities before panzers.
So for as long as wars are made on our own territory it is within the rules..
That is why we need panzers to roll over AI land and pay off all the embarrasment and humiliation we are about to experience in first 5000 years.

I've played a test game already with these rules on Monarch level. It was a lot of fun, but it was way to easy on Monarch. So it is a demigod SG game now.

Our units can only enter enemy territory to counter attack and pick up AIs units in open field. They must return back immediately.

Click to expand...

If this goes for settlers too you wont be able to build cities in enemy territory.. which would make taking over enemy territory by building cities very hard on DG.

You would need to get 2 culture expansions before you can build next city, and you would have to use ICS, or alternatively get another civ to capture or raze cities for you and then build in the gaps.

dmanakho said:

settler tunneling - what is that???
We can try to squeeze AIs out... As a matter of fact it is totally within the rule if we manage to get a lot of culture so AIs cities flip to us... I don't think it is going to be realistic on demigod level though.

Click to expand...

Settler tunnelling is when you settle next to the AI, which steps one space into their land, then put another settler in the next space, abandon the first city and settle again, and repeat. I assume we can't attack their cities even if its next to our land. So maybe this will not really help us.

I knew the trick, but surely didn't know the name

Gyathaar said:

If this goes for settlers too you wont be able to build cities in enemy territory.. which would make taking over enemy territory by building cities very hard on DG.

You would need to get 2 culture expansions before you can build next city, and you would have to use ICS, or alternatively get another civ to capture or raze cities for you and then build in the gaps.

Click to expand...

That is the trick with tunnelling, you push their culture back and move your settler in. Then abandon the first city, at that time your settler is in their territory and can form a new city (requires war of course). Now we might want to ban this in this game. Or maybe just that after abandoning the first city we count that as expansion in their territory and have to move out.

With enough settlers and railroads/workers, you can clear the map in one turn

Now I see why Team smackster has twice as many posts as the other teams in SGOTM5.

My feelings on expansions through settlers is that it is okay to a point. I don't see at the moment how we would "clear the map in one turn" as smackster said, and aggressive settling can be important on higher levels when war is out of the picture. Or maybe I do have it figured out. But how about no abandoning cities for this purpose? We can do some ICS on the border to grab more land, but no tunneling.

Using throwaway cities to push back borders to get combat settlers deeper in is usually banned in SGs, so I didnt consider this

Thou this would still put the settler in enemy territory after the first city was disbanded, for a reason not valid after your rules

bed_head7 said:

Now I see why Team smackster has twice as many posts as the other teams in SGOTM5.

My feelings on expansions through settlers is that it is okay to a point. I don't see at the moment how we would "clear the map in one turn" as smackster said, and aggressive settling can be important on higher levels when war is out of the picture. Or maybe I do have it figured out. But how about no abandoning cities for this purpose? We can do some ICS on the border to grab more land, but no tunneling.

Click to expand...

In theory we could, but I agree its probably not realistic. Lets not do this as its very cheesy. Note that if this was competitive I would be recommending the cheesy tactics.

I note that from our statistics from GOTM5, I had more posts than some entire teams

Anyway, I need to go out and get a life , actually got to buy some presents and get on a flight. Might be off line a little more than usual in the coming days.

smackster