C3C Training succession game

Hawklord

Sonic Warrior
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Nov 21, 2004
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*Game Starting*

C3C Rise of Rome Training succession game

Playing as Rome

Order is:
Noldodan - In the wings
Alneyan -
Hawklord -
Niveclough - Up
1 slot open

Level Monarch

Stratergy Summary(first draft)
Initial Aims
1 Take three big islands.
2 Conquer Celt city NW of Rome
3 Build Temple of Artemis in Ancona
4 Diplomatic moves to: isolate Carthage
Befriend Macedonia
5 Create Kill Zones where Cartheginians land troops on Islands and Come up from Spain. (So we can extend in other directions while building up forces)
Intermediate Aims
1 Conquer Celts by taking a few cities and demanding others in peace deals.
2 Extend towards Mecedonia
3 Extend down Iberian Peninsular
Longer Term Aims
1 Later same war with Goths
3 Conquer Carthage
4 Conquer Macedonia
5 Also Syths if possible.
Long Term Goals
Win
Kill everybody :ar15:

Research goals still open for discussion. But finish the one you get unless there is an important reason to change.

Suggested reporting format would be something like this:

Starting Overview Where you find yourself. Comments.
AI Moves What does AI do?
TurnsYear + (turn No)
Trades
Other Stuff
next turn----
Turn Summary
plus Suggested Next Objectives

Screenshots are useful :)
 
I would like to sign up for a Rise of Rome game; that would be my first SG though, so put me as a novice. I played that conquest once as well (with Rome), but that was on Regent, so.
 
Your very welcome Alneyan. Let's give it a little while to see if any more show up.
 
ok i'll join, just note that today i wont b able to do anything... 20 page report due monday, was assigned today! one question, what level? i have one on chieftain on warlord, and on sid (bit of a skip) chieftain and warlord as rome and carthage as sid...

ok but assuming rome as was initially stated, here are the main objectives:

1. Control Sicily! This is very important, and i cannot stress how much! Sicily is a great staging area for attacks against rome or carthage. Whichever controls this is on the offensive, a huge advantage ;) (and a neccessity for success as carthage!)

2. Expand up to the North and West! Rome starts off, well, small... :rolleyes: As rome we need to expand and expand quickly, (note there is one spot on the pennisula i always settle as well (it gives access to one extra gold, with produces 6-7 gpt, a big help as rome)) Expanding to the North increases production and pressures the barbarian tribes. Expanding to the west helps slow carthagian counter attacks from the Iberian (learned this the hard way, when 35 war elephants show up on your nothern border right after you stripped your home garrason to attack carthage with your fleet of ships... not good) At the least we must set people there to sentry for coming attacks!

3. Get Macadon's goodwill! Pay for it if need be! :blush: if Macadon attacks you, you cant wage a successful war against carthage and it means that they aren't hurting your number 1 competetor!

4. Either buy Egypt's goodwill and have them fight carthage, or attack and conquer them! Eitherway Carthage now has to watch 3 directions for attack. Remember what fighting on 2 fronts did to Hitler? Watch Carthage try to fight on 3 and laugh! :lol: :eek: :lol:

5. Get tactics very quickly! this opens up legonary IIs and that is a big help! :goodjob: Legonary IIs have the same defense as the elephant's attack, manage to cox and elephant to attack you across a river etc and they lose very quickly, then counter attack (5 attack vs 2 defense) and they die faster! :spear: if we make Legonary IIIs it may be time to actually persue as war against macedons... they cant fight that kind of power, and this almost insures victory! :hammer: :hammer:

well i'll come up with more later! now i must write my report...
 
I'll join up. I won a Monarch RoR game as Rome by domination with 2 turns to go, then it turned out I would've won by points anyway (by 19 out of ~6500!). Level: Monarch's fine for me as Rome or Persia, but Regent for Macedon or Carthage. Civ: Rome's easy. But anyone else would be good too.
 
OK I'll go with that.
Since Noldodan has won he must be the "expert".
niveclough never said if he won or lost :)
However, I concur with niveclough in the objectives. I had come to a similar conclusion in my own first attempts.
I took all of the islands and the Celtic town NW of Roman lands.
AI Carthage tries to retake 2 big islands so it can be a killing zone if you have enough troops and cats there. Any Carthage forces coming West from Spain pass Celtic town (can't remeber the name of it) so it too can destry troops while builds Rome up hers. Also I found that attacking their shipping mostly resulted in lost transport for us. :(
Another useful tactic. When plausable, conquer a couple of bigger Celtic cites and offer peace, they will give you all of the size 1s that they have. A quick way to expand north.
Same with Goths, but later.
Politics seems to be important in keeping Persia down so we can win, so I'm with you on that niveclough.

Suggestions for initial stratergy. How many turns, 10 would seem appropriate here.

I feel that If this is "training" we should:
1 agree overall stratergy.
2 report turns
3 then comments van be made on mistakes, always the best way to learn. Probably not the best way to win

Alternative is to: discuss tactics and aims first and then do 2 and 3 above.

I'd prefer the first as it will be more informative and more fun. But we may not win.

I'd suggest order would be:
Noldodan
Alneyan
Hawklord
Niveclough
"1 other (if forthcoming)"
Reasoning is that Noldodan (who has won at this) can start us in the right direction.
Then Alneyan and me can give it a go.
niveclogh has more experience than us 2 on this scenario so he can clear up the mess we leave :)

Suggested reporting format would be something like this:

Starting Overview Where you find yourself. Comments.
AI MovesWhat does AI do?
TurnsYear + (turn No)
Trades
Other Stuff
next turn----
Turn Summary
Suggested Next Objectives

Maybe 4 is enough on a limited turn game? What do you think?

Can we agree overall winning stratergy that we will follow. (As best we can)
Plus any suggestion to order etc.
 
lol notice i mistyped and put one instead of won, so i have one, as both sides here... all i will say about my carthage victory as learning for rome, defend iron with extreme predjudice!

nice idea on the celts, just forgot to post that, limited wars with all barbarian civs is an easy way to grow (and neccessary for that pop requirement!) sounds fine by me about the order!
 
I certainly agree with the military targets of the islands and the Celts; the islands could be fairly annoying to take later on. I would also agree with expanding into Iberia rather quickly, but would also like to try to box Macedonia in in the east (settling immediately on their northern borders).

As for diplomacy, is this conquest bugged in the first turn? (As the Napoleon one) Other than that, I am fine with trying to get Egypt against Carthage. They will unlikely be able to do much, but they won't help Carthage while they are fighting them.

On research, I am not sure if the upgraded legionaries are actually much of an improvement. Their stats are: 4/3/1, 5/4/1, 6/5/1, for 50 shields, 70 shields and 90 shields respectively; would +1 offence/defence be worth the extra 20 shields? We will probably be unable to avoid the Legionary II though, as it comes with Tactics, needed for Heavy Cavalry, but it might be needed to avoid the Legionary III. Of course, their added survivability may be worth the added cost, but I am no expert in maths.

Lastly, should we try to get a wonder in this game, and if so, which one? I built the Temple of Artemis in my previous game with this Conquest, but I am not sure it was really worth the trouble.
 
Alneyan said:
Lastly, should we try to get a wonder in this game, and if so, which one? I built the Temple of Artemis in my previous game with this Conquest, but I am not sure it was really worth the trouble.

I built the Temple of Artemis straght off in Ancona (highest shield city), than used that to spam cities everywhere for territory. Cheap, fast settlers + free border expansion = HUGE amounts of territory. Worth every shield.
 
I'm not so sure about boxing in Macedonia. Can we do every direction? There are horses over that way. But it's open to Syth and Goth attacks if we overextend too soon.

I thought legions upgrades were useful, even necessary as Mac and Carthage troops get better too. So we need better stats to counter them.

Temple of Artemis idea sounds good.
 
Stratergy Summary(first draft)
Initial Aims
1 Take three big islands.
2 Conquer Celt city NW of Rome
3 Build Temple of Artemis in Ancona
4 Diplomatic moves to: isolate Carthage
Befriend Macedonia
5 Create Kill Zones where Cartheginians land troops on Islands and Come up from Spain. (So we can extend in other directions while building up forces)
Intermediate Aims
1Conquer Celts by taking a few cities and demanding others in peace deals.
2 Extend towards Mecedonia
3 Extend down Iberian Peninsular
Longer Term Aims
1 Later same war with Goths
3 Conquer Carthage
4 Conquer Macedonia
5 Also Syths if possible.
Long Term Goals
Win
Kill everybody :ar15:

Any important Research goals?
 
ok as for the upgrades, at least legonary IIs are neccessary! keep in mind their defense is as strong as the elephant's offense! this makes defending cities way easier if they counterattack successfully!

research tactics quickly, gives legonary IIs, which will be a major turning point, a legonary II is almost as strong as heavy calvery, and with it you can succesfully wage war against civs with calvery...

also the first settler the is built in core cities has a specific place that must be settled, it give way more gold and requires only base protection as its on the penisula already... next time i post i'll have a screeny of where to build the city

ToA is a good idea, always worth the effort!

I vote against commiting to many troops over by our northern expansion early, keep one troop in each city as a place holder and move our troops to wipe the iberian clean of carthagians, later we can use these cities as a staging area against macedon, but make sure one cities is closer to macedon then others so that we can use that city as a kill zone as well (an AI fault is they seem to always attack the closest city first! try to always give them one city to focus on, then sidestep them and charge to their heartland, skipping cities if neccessary!

Make sure to defend iron against carthagian raids... that's how i beat rome on sid, without iron we're defenseless!
 
OK should we start? We can sort other stuff out as we go.
Noldodan do you want to play 10 turns and see where we go?
I'll put the order in the first post, so it can be found. :)
 
Hawklord said:
Do you think 5 is better than 10. You might be right as it is a limited turn game.
4 turns was suggest, but 4 is a weird number, so I chose 5. Anyway...

Preturn - Lotsa Wonders begun, including 3 ToA's.
Turn 1 - Begin researching Tactics. Ancona begins Temple of Artemis, ETA 62 turns (don't worry, it won't be that long). Trade contact with the Persians to the Celts for World Map, 50 gold and 2 Workers. Suckers! Found Gondolin.
IBT: Brennus wants us out, I agree to.
Turn 2 - Found Himling, Nargothrond, and Mount Dolmed. Finish loading Vet Legions into Caesar Augustus. Attack Syracuse, taken with no casualties, destroy a Galley in harbor. With GA, Tactics due in 9, ToA due in 42.
IBT: Lose Archer on Sicily. Brennus demands we leave, I refuse, causing war.
Turn 3 - Attack Massillia, no casualties, promotion to Elite. Renamed to Alqualondë. Sack Barb camp up North.
IBT: Carth Galley sailing around South of Sicily.
Turn 4 - Kill Celt Spear W of Massillia, promotion to Elite. Attack Marsala, capture and 1 promotion to Vet.
IBT: Carth Galley sail around to wst of Sicily.
Turn 5 - Carth Galley killed, no casualties. Celt Archer killed up north.

Suggestions: Capture Corsica and Sardinia, then go on to Carthage. Keep at least 2 Legions W/NW of Alqualondë to deal with Carthaginian incursions. Get those Spices!After founding/capturing a city, have it build a Garrison, then a Barracks, then military units. Finally, keep the 4 cities producing Citizens, and the rest should fall into place. Of course, you're welcome to do otherwise if you prefer, this is just what I did last game (except no Citizens). Then again, I had a VERY close victory.
 
Got it. I am considering selling Mathematics to Persia this turn; they are willing to offer 200 gold now, and 35 gold per turn in exchange for it (oddly enough, as 40 gold per turn will get them mad). This may be somewhat useful for them though, but with any luck, they will research Construction and the following technologies afterwards. The other civilisations do not have a lot to offer for it, and refuse to accept a "gold per turn" agreement (I would have loved having that one with Macedonia).

Other than that, I will keep on cranking Citizens out of our cozy boot, as expanding seems the best way to get to those 50% population. The military operations will otherwise go as planned, though I will probably only be able to take the islands in my turns.

I should have done my turns tonight (GMT), or by tomorrow in the evening at the latest.
 
I like how you settled close to Rome. I supose this gives a lot of troop production from high production cities. A close packed core makes sense in this game. Not something I thought to do myself. :p
It's a steep learning curve when you've not got much rope :crazyeye:
 
*Grumbles* I may need until tomorrow morning to play my turn (before 11 am GMT or so). I may manage to get my turns in this evening though, but I would rather spend a bit more time to avoid these silly mistakes I am wont to make.
 
It looks like I didn't need any more time after all. Feel free to ask me if I have forgotten something important in my report (which is more likely than not).

Turn 5 (330 BC): A few citizens were switched to other tiles, to avoid losing shields/food when production/growth was done in one turn. Mathematics sold to Persia for Dyes, 209 gold and 27 gold per turn. Science rate increased to 80% (was 70%), allowing for +24 gold a turn and Tactics to be completed in four turns.
Inter-turn: one Celt warrior and one Archer seem to be heading for Nargothrond (north of Pisea).


Turn 6 (325 BC): Little of notice. A few citizens were completed this turn, and most of them were sent north of the boot. Besides the usual production (Citizens, Garrisons and Legionaries), I build one Worker in Neapolis and another one in Sicily. I am not sure if we have an appropriate worker factory among our cities though.

The Legions are marching north to conquer the Celts, while the sea expedition is ready to try to retake the islands. Tactics is to be completed in three turns (still 80%), and the treasury is filled with Sestertii.
Inter-turn: one Roman archer is ambushed in the mountains by the Celt rcher, and killed in battle. The Celt warrior is killed with attacking a Barbarian camp (defended by a mere warrior), and the Celt archer soon meets the same fate. A Scythian cavalry appears near our scouting archer in the east. The Celts have dared built a city literally next to our legions; a shame this lovely city will have to be put to the torch


Turn 7 (320 BC): Scythia is contacted. They appear to be fairly backward people, with no knowledge of Masonry or the Alphabet. I sell Alphabet and Writing in exchange for communications with Persia (they are so close to them they will make contact very soon), while taking all their gold in the process (193 more gold). Persia buys our Currency for 250 gold or so, and an additional 12 gold per turn.
The armies are otherwise still on their way to conquest, and little else happens.
Inter-turn: one Carthaginian galley is spotted. Macedonia demands Contact with the Scythians, or else... Since they are Angry, I give in; they would soon make contact with Scythia on their own, so no need to venture a war with Macedonia.


Turn 8 (315 BC): Gergovia has fallen to Caesar; there was no Vercingetorix to save the down. The town the Celts had just founded has been razed, though one legion was almost killed by a lucky spearman. Another legion kills another spearman in La Cene, taking one hit in the process. Four legions land in the isle south of Corsica (whose name I have forgotten).

None of our neighbours has anything worth selling or buying. Scythia now seems to have caught up in tech; they weren't so backward after all. The Celts, following the seizure of several of their towns, are willing to accept peace in exchange for all their towns, their world map, and all their gold. I take on their offer, leaving them with Alesia as sole property. As a side advantage, the population of these towns immediately becomes Roman, though one of them is Unhappy (Burgalia).

Lugdunum is founded on the Spices site, and incidentally near Alesia. With no direct access to Iron, things aren't looking too good for them. They are willing to offer us one Worker in exchange for Iron, our World Map, and miscellaneous presents; I turn down their offer. We are still leading in technology, and Tactics will be completed on the next turn (60% science, +72 gold).
Inter-turn: Carthago fortifies Caralis (the first of three Carthaginians towns on the islands) with one Spearman and two Workers.


Turn 9 (310 BC): Caralis has fallen without any casualty for us, though two Legions took a few scratches in the battle. And two more workers for us. A galley sent to Carthago noticed little on their lands, so we should be safe for a while at least. A Legion took down a barbarian camp in the Alps, while our troops are trying to scout the North East.Tactics was reached, so we will now be able to build Legionaries II, or upgrade our existing Legionaries. Nobody else has Tactics, and they do not offer enough for a trade to be worthwile (Persia offered 500 gold or so, but I would rather not allow them to strengthen their military).

I picked Military Planning as the next technology to get Heavy Cavalry, and to get closer to Republic/Imperialism. The ETA for this technology is seven turns at 90% science.
Inter-turn: Virtually nothing happened, except the odd Celt roaming about (but we are at peace now).


Turn 10 (305 BC): A few more settlers were built. Some of them are heading for Iberia, a few others for Macedonia, and one city was founded on the eastern coast of Italy. It might be useful to build galleys directly in Macedonian territory, and could be a prime target for the AI, when/if we are at war with Macedonia. Most citizens have not been deployed yet, so the decision will be up to the next player. Science was set to 100% (five turns before Military Training is done) as gold does not seem really needed now.


What next? There are a couple of ideas I had in mind, but decided against making any move in these directions (if I could at all do anything).
- Making sure we have an healthy lead in our Temple of Artemis production. There are a few cities building the same wonder, so doing some espionage may be worth the money (about 60/80 gold per city spied on). Alternatively, we could count how many tiles these cities have, and how high their productions are.
- Consider a switch in government. There are several other governments in the game, and getting the Legionaries III will require doing part of this research. Imperialism is the best government available, but the Republic should be roughly on par. Going with such governments would give us a nice edge, and would allow to pay gold to hurry production, and gold is something that should not be so difficult to get.
- Upgrading units. The Legionaries I can be upgraded to Legionaries II for 60 gold, and I think the price will be the same for Legionary II => Legionary III. I am not sure if it is worth the price tag, but then, hoarding gold is unlikely to do much. I have also queued an Horseman or two in Roma to upgrade to Heavy Cavalry once the technology is available.
- I am not sure if getting Macedonia and Egypt against Carthago would be a good idea, as Persia seems to be the bigger threat to us. Macedonia should be focusing on Persia instead of the dying Carthagenians, and Egypt... Well, they will need all the help they can get against the Persian juggernaut. I only agreed to a 20-turn agreement with Persia because we are very unlikely to pick a fight with them until then; other countries, especially Scythia, were another matter.
- I very likely did poorly with workers and citizens (not that I did amazingly well in the other areas of the game), so there will probably work to be done in this field. I feel we could use a few more workers in Italy, and of course more will be needed in the taken territories. On the other hand, Conquests are much shorter than Epic games, so workers may not be so important, especially if we can get an early lead.

On a last note, we are now up to 4% of the territory and 19% of the population; Persia has 6% of the territory and 23% of the population if memory serves. (Persia had 25% of the population during the first turn, and we were around 15%)
 
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