Declare war on C3B ? redone

The previous Poll was posted, but new info came available. Hence a new poll.

Conditional:

We need to establish embassy and investigate Sao Paolo prior to the attack, since this is the last chance to do so. We cannot establish an embassy until a peace treaty is signed.
So, as long as we establish an embassy to get the Brasillia Map, and then investigate a couple of important cities, I fully support the war. However, I am against the war if it is just started of the bat with no last minute adaptations.

I am still for the Fortaleza Sao Paolo gambit.

If we declare war on C3B, then we will be seen as the team who not only attempted to discredit a neighboring team, but also initiated an attack on that team as soon as they were permitted to do so. Justifed or not, I do not want to become this game's GCA in the public eye.

Vote NO WAR, and make the proper preparations to counter a C3B attack. The opportunity should come soon enough, especially if we settle north.

We've given C3B very agreeable terms for a Non Aggression Pact and other very sweet deals.... Deals that are even counter to our national security. Yet we've recieved no reply.

There is no longer a reason to stay at peace. If we want to move on to the next game we must fight.

I don't think I can hold the save much longer.

@DZ: We have waited the agreed 20 turns of punishment + 5 extra. I don't consider that "as soon as they were permitted to do so". I do agree we can be seen as "the team that discreditted a different team" but I do not think that that will ever go away. It is allowed to declare war, you know.

Myself: I prefer to wait with a war declaration until it is certain we can trade or not trade. If that means 1 more turn, fine. If that means: now; fine.

I'll hold the save for a few more hours; only 4 citizens have voted.

@Rik: I'm sure you can hold the save as long as we need to decide on the matters which might be at least another 24 hours. Recently C3B were holding the save without any warning just because they don't feel like playing on Christmas and CDZ messed a lot with their site migrating to new domain.

Actually, according to constitution, there is no need to wait for the poll to finish but the required decision must be reached by the government.

@DZ: having no opinion is also a good opinion. I'm sure public opinion matters but not much especially if we happen to win. And the war is purely defensive since it is the C3B troops which continuously threaten our national security.

OK. If we can hold the save as long as we need, then we do so. I'm glad I didn't specify the time in the UN.

Its just making c3b sweat so who cares how long we keep it??? Plus they should respond to our negotiations....Perhaps they think we are holding the save waiting for them to respond?

Well, that isn't so far off. We are discussing whether to declare war or not. Trades are involved in that decision.

2 things:

1) IMHO we should play the turn and make ourselves ready for war... and all the time be alert if there is a risk the warrior is disbanded: thenn we must attack.

2) Rik, shouldn't you update your avatar? It's soon february...

Bah. I just posted this in the previous thread:

You have an enourmously good point, DZ.

But if we let them attack their Warrior will disband, and I fear we will not get our Golden Age.

Surely, we can use diplomacy to give us a legitimate reason to start the war?

But we can't attack next turn.

Rik: I suggest we hold the extra JT for now and pass on the save. But in a few turns we should have built up enough of a reason to attack C3B. Call it an "Pre-emptive strike".

magnusmarcus said:

We've given C3B very agreeable terms for a Non Aggression Pact and other very sweet deals.... Deals that are even counter to our national security. Yet we've recieved no reply.

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You have to give C3B some time, it has only been four days

akots said:

Actually, according to constitution, there is no need to wait for the poll to finish but the required decision must be reached by the government.

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It needs to last 48 hours also

Could someone contact CDZ and get their opinions on a war with C3B and how it would affect our image with them?

We've explained our feelings about C3B to CDZ in all the chats well enough. They know war will come one day or the other, Goonie.

WE MUST NOT START A WAR NOW! We are not ready. All it will do is give C3B war happyness, and will stop the effects of us getting the gradens from them. We must wait for a better time. That will most likely come when they attack us. If we attack now, we will have to build more ships to protect our troops, thus stalling the war to later and later, allowing C3B to build up. A decisive attack on their homeland is much better.


I know the fallowing will get many people to lose faith in me, but I really do belive that it is the best thing.

I will repeat what I have been saying for a while: An Alliance with C3B is still possable! All we need to do is keep up with what we did back when we started the alliance. It is not good that we are going to war RIGHT AFTER we proposed a treaty. That is dishonourable! If they reject it, that is different. We could win a war with the other alliance, all we need it to try. A combined effort from the two of our nations can win it. Not only will this attack win us a spot in the finals, but also a good ally to come with us. CGN is also a wild card, they might help C3B if they get to them first, and they will thanks to the geographical locations of the two teams. For the sake of our nation, we must not go to war now. If you want to go to war later that is different, but let us focus on now. We are not ready!

VOTE NO ON WAR WITH C3B!

Vote yes to war. Even when relations were the best with c3b we always got the short end of the stick in negotiations. Does anyone remember the..."there are no horses on the whole island bit"? or the "you guys are too insulting bit"? or the whole "There president was a spy in our forum bit"
To think we can muster enough forces and project them to a foreign land to attack a civ thats been unmolested for so long and prevail is utter foolishness. Even with our "ally"

Its not like they (c3b) have even replied to the most basic of treaties. A non-aggression pact. Hello! what makes anyone think they will even go for an alliance. As for "its dishournable to go to war right after we offer them treaties". Thats bullcrap.. its the same handful of crap theyve been shoveling to us since the game started. Every one of the treaties we've had with them has worked to there benefit except for the one enforced on them due to a member of c3b screwing us for the majority of the game.

If we "turtle" any longer we will die. Its that simple.

An Alliance with C3B is still possable!

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no it is not.

They have shown again and again and again that they are far from trustworthy.

They are more likely to backstab us than to help us.

Emp.Napoleon said:

All it will do is give C3B war happyness, and will stop the effects of us getting the gradens from them.[/B]

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I will crap my pants if we get the Hanging Gardens before theit war happiness wears out.

My vote, after much debating since the beginning of this thread, is still up in the air. I'm all for war, but am worried that we'll lose CDZ on minimum friendly terms. I don't want them against us in the finals, or when astronomy is researched, whichever comes first.

magnusmarcus said:

Its not like they (c3b) have even replied to the most basic of treaties. A non-aggression pact. Hello! what makes anyone think they will even go for an alliance.

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They have not replied because it takes a while for things to get though their goverment! Not even us could get a non-agression treaty passed that fast! It has been less then a week.