Shall we Revolt to a Feudalistic Government?

Should we revolt to a Feudalistic government?

  • Yes, right away!

    Votes: 5 38.5%
  • No, Monarchy and the Golden Age will suffice

    Votes: 7 53.8%
  • Abstain

    Votes: 1 7.7%

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .

Donovan Zoi

The Return
Joined
Oct 22, 2002
Messages
4,960
Location
Chicago
People of Fanatica,

Most of you have heard me ranting about the benefits of a Feudalistic government. And though the timeliness for a revolution is not the best, I feel the topic must at least be raised.

So, should we or shouldn't we?

This poll will run for 3 days.
 
For your convenience, here are most of my rantings on this subject. Please read carefully......

1. We have access to one luxury in the foreseeable future, nullifying the quick happiness fix of Marketplaces.
2. We have to set the Lux rate to 10% just to get most cities to Size 6!
3. To get most cities to Size 7, we will need to build an Aqueduct and a Temple.
4. We have a woefully obsolete military, and possess the techs to modernize it.
5. We are willing to attack with this motley band to start a war we are not ready for.
6. Every new unit we build will put us further in the hole.

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They made [Feudalism] for us! We are the embodiment for why Feudalism was created. No domestic policy or future? Stuck with small cities? Then create a mighty army by turning a negative aspect into a positive one.

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Unit Support

Feudalism: 5 units per town(size 1-6); 2 units per city (size 7-12)
Monarchy: 2 units per town(size 1-6); 4 units per city (size 7-12)

Our situation: We currently have 75 units, yet can only support 46 of them under Monarchy. That is 29g thrown out the window each turn! Under Feudalism, we could support 99 units at the present time, giving our military the opportunity to grow without hurting our pocketbook.

And since we are a nation stagnated by unhappiness and lack of infrastructure, we may as well use our small city status to our advantage!

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Now the only drawback I can see is this: why should we risk the government switch (and accompanying Anarchy) during this uncertain time? Beacuse it will be well worth it in the long run.

Feudalism: 5-7 turns of Anarchy --- we lose 250-350g plus 5-7 production turns
Monarchy: maintain the status quo

Our situation: Yes, we lose the production at a time we need it most, but the gold gets paid back in 10-12 turns --- and continues to keep on giving even as our military grows to 100. And with each new city we build comes support for five more units!


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As I have stated above, poprushing is a non-factor in this proposal. I included it for the sake of completion.

What good is cash-rushing if we continue to fritter away 30+ gold per turn on unit support, and have to curb the growth of our army to keep from making that number worse?

When will we have the appropriate funds to cash-rush expensive things like Temples and Aqueducts for 20+ cities? And why should we have to when we can enter a government that actually allows us to benefit from our small cities?

Why should the cash rush even be an option when we have 23 Warriors running around and 7 spearmen ready to be upgraded? Without our complimentary ACs, we would be in sad shape indeed. All this and several of you think we are ready for war!

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My goal for the nation in its current state? I truly believe we need to embrace our true essence in this game. We are devoid of luxuries, and almost everything costs the full amount to build. We have inherited a land that will not afford us the grand lifestyle of a CDZ or CGN, with their Size 12 cities. We are wedged between a crumbling relationship to the north and the uncertainty of the intentions of the puppetmasters to our west. In other words, we ain't got much.

This is where my dream for this nation comes in, though it is only my opinion as well. Let's protect our land to the fullest with troops one hundred strong. Let's use our gold to upgrade all of our troops, leaving a few Warrior MPs behind. Let's use our cities to build only military units and Settlers. Let's march through the Tobacco fields, 30 MI-strong with Pike reinforcements, toward the Brazucan fortress, leveling every greencloth in our path and settling the neutral playground once and for all. Let's table the dreams of becoming a more enlightened people and just put our all into this one battle. We can do it with Feudalism; the numbers tell me that it can.
 
We cannot going into anarchy... Its like a big "Hey c3b, come attack us while were vulnerable!" and how exactly do we pass that off in a diplomatic sense? "We went to feudelism so we can support more units to NOT attack you with. Really. You can trust us."

I want to attack c3b but I don't want us to tip our hand that we are going to shortly.
 
Diplomacy is dead at this point, so that's no argument.

The period of anarchy is. That could be devastating. Not to mention the fact that we'd be unable to pay stuff. I can imagine that after we have Chivalry we want to use every penny to buy knights.
 
Matrix said:
I can imagine that after we have Chivalry we want to use every penny to buy knights.
We could use our excess cash to upgrade the horses running around. Plus, if a city gets above size seven, we might be able to use the extra guy to buy a knight.
 
Matrix said:
Diplomacy is dead at this point, so that's no argument.

The period of anarchy is. That could be devastating. Not to mention the fact that we'd be unable to pay stuff. I can imagine that after we have Chivalry we want to use every penny to buy knights.

Arranging trades and establishing treaties is quite dead.... but they don't need to know it...

I'm just saying lets not show our intent
 
RegentMan said:
We could use our excess cash to upgrade the horses running around. Plus, if a city gets above size seven, we might be able to use the extra guy to buy a knight.
I think this point is important; we can keep cities below size 7 by pop-rushing.

The "we don't want them to see it" is a not so good argument. We can see that the north area is free of C3B's (except 1 warrior). We block the Western passage and have sufficient galleys in KD to prevent an Eastern landing. The Choke works magnificently (with pikes) and fast units. We are not vulnerable now. If we wait till (a lot) later, C3B will be more ready.

I'm not sure about Sengoku Feud ; what is different about it compared to normal Feud?
 
I voted yes. Feudalism will give us the oppurtunity to sustain a larger army and have more gold available to research mono + chiv. That is what we want and need to kill C3B and secure a spot in the finals.

DZ has me convinced.
 
I voted "No" because we have far too many vulnerable small cities. In Feudalism (DZ did not mention this in his above list so I will remind every one here), we would experience War Weariness if we suffer losses. Every city taken from us (whether we built it or not) would cause 1/2 of the jump to the next phase of WW. -30 is war happiness, 1-30 is normal, 31-60 is 25% unhappy, 61-90 and 91-120 are 50% unhappy and 121 is total wipeout. Not withstanding the fact that every attack an enemy makes would contribute 2 pts to WW, just losing 4 cities (and there are more than that on iron island alone, mostly undefended at the moment) would put us at 25% unhappy.

What does this translate to? If we took Fortaleeza and Rio and then had them taken back, we would suffer >30 pts of WW (since we would be sure to lose units as well). In addition, each time we attacked and lost (something we would be nearly certain to do...since we are talking about each unit that loses) we would add 2 more points of WW.

Feudalism is a great government for empires with small cities (i.e. towns, thus <size 7) if they don't anticipate a war or if they are planning to fight a small war. It also works well for nations gearing up for a war when those nations have the Religious trait, since anarchy will last <3 turns. We don't have either of these luxuries...Feudalism will cost us a birth to the finals.
 
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