AG14 - Sid Space Race, the revenge

AG8 -my first Sid SG- ended with a win. I then tried a more random Sid Space game -AG12- and we lost big time. But it was an interesting game nevertheless. I want to try this variant one more time.

VARIANT RULES, ETC...
-Space Race is the only victory type that counts as a win, but all standard victory types are enabled.
-Sid level
-Map size in standard, barbarians are roaming. The rest is...random!
-OK, random... except for the fact that I will play 25 turns on a map to ensure that we have a fighting chance.

BANNED TACTICS
These tactics are banned in my SG's. I got my inspiration from RBCiv, with a few slight differences:

"Phony Peace Treaty": Making Peace Treaties without having the intention to stay at peace, just to get cheap techs, cities or money.

"Palace Jump"; Jumping the palace by disbanding the capital. Rushing a palace or building it brick by brick is OK.

"Mass troop jumping": When you give away a city to another tribe, all the troops from that city are transported to your capital. This can be exploited. Especialy in scenarios where you need to take an important city (for example a possible 20K city) and after that want to get your troops home safely. It is OK to give away a city with up to two defenders in it.

"RoP Rape": Using Right of Passage to move whole armies into attack position.

"Throwaway Cities": It is possible to go everywhere by settling, moving a setter one tile further in, abandoning the old city, founding a new one, etc...etc... A city shouldn't be abandoned in the same turn as it is settled.

"Resource Piracy": Sitting on resources or deny a civ access to a tile inside the borders of the rival while at peace.

"Seed Corn": It is not allowed to buy the LAST TWO workers from the AI before 1000 BC.

"Negative cash research": The penalty of negative cash is only one unit. So there are cases where this can be worthwile. Science spending must be lowered when the cash would go below zero.

"Great Library slingshot": When you capture the Great Library city before you have Education and keep it one turn, you will get ALL the technologies known by at least two other tribes. You can get from the Middle Ages into the Modern Age with this tactic. The Great Library slingshot is not a valid tactic in my SG's. You are allowed to capture the Great Library city as one of a number of cities to weaken the owner. But it can't be a campaign to capture this city alone, hold it for a turn and then abandon it. THIS IS A BIGGIE IN THIS GAME!

Other tactics:
Things that I didn't name but are in the spirit of what I mention above I would like to have discussed.

PLAYERS
Grs (indefinite skip)
Doc Tsiolkovski
Aggie
Mark1031
LKendter
Microbe


roster is full

24hrs to post a "got it" notice, and up to 48hrs after that to finish and post your turns. I will start with 25 turns. Next up can take 15/20 turns, and the next leader 10/15, then 10 each turn after that.

Our start! We are the English! Settle on the spot? Build curragh first?

And who wants to start this one?

People who can join should either have beaten Sid or difficult Deity variants.

Click to expand...

Well I definitely have the difficult deity variants down. 5CCC wins are never easy. A few of my other ideas are even more crazy.

Settle on the spot?

Click to expand...

If I read the map correctly that one square is a LAKE and we can irrigate the 3 wheats for +5 growth - YES.

Build curragh first?

Click to expand...

Very had to call. If I understand correctly the map type is random. I can't decide without confirming that.

And who wants to start this one?

Click to expand...

I thought you were going to do the initial 25?

LKendter said:

I thought you were going to do the initial 25?

Click to expand...

Yes, I said that. But I had four initial tries which stranded somewhere between turn 5 and 20. This took a lot of time. So I decided to play it with more speed and less accuracy. Only for the sake of determing how we wopuld do after 25 turns. It took me another 4 tries to get this one. And since I now know how the first 25 play I think it's best for me to be 2nd or 3rd...

I'll play if you like. I always like a Sid challenge.

Settle on spot: yes.
Curragh first: I would say no. It does not look like a very small island and since we do not know this is an archipelago (I guess checking with seed beast is a cheat?!), I would prefer to find a spot for our 2nd city fast.

Are we trying to build the GL?

(I guess checking with seed beast is a cheat?!),

Click to expand...

It is Aggie's call, but IMO - YES.

Are we trying to build the GL?

Click to expand...

Has it ever been done at Sid?

Yes - read my sig

@Mark: welcome! It's great to have you in the team.

@grs: I don't like us using things like seed beast to check. But I think you are right regarding an early expansion above all.

@LKendter: I have built the TGL on Sid on an archi map. But it sounds very early for that discussion. I prefer to expand fast (EDIT: I mean fast not first!). I know that TGL should be decided upon first. Let's see in 30-40 turns.

The GL is very doable starting with alphabet although no guarantee. It must be executed flawlessly to have a chance. IMO if we build the GL we win. If not we might win. I would give it top priority. IMO curgah first build then hopefully find someone to get pottery from for settler factory. Research definately writing min then Lit @ max or timed to GL build. We need to find a fresh water site for the GL city.

Ehm, forgot to post the save!

Mark1031 said:

IMO curgah first build then hopefully find someone to get pottery from for settler factory.

Click to expand...

We start with Pottery and Alphabet So that is not the reason for a curragh. But early contact is key at Sid. You want to be able to participate in the tech brokering. Just like expanding fast in the early game. You don't want to see all the land go to the AI. We can't build a settler immediately because we won't grow to 3 fast enough. So I in the end do vote for a curragh and then settler, granary, settler.

EDIT: then again, a granary is paying of after 5 or 6 settlers. We may not have the time for it. So I flip-flop to curragh-settler-settler-settler... Depends on how early we get contact though.

Now we need someone to volunteer, or be "volunteered" for the first turns.

True. I am happy with any of you. You are all deity++ players. I say that like this because it's late for me and I'm going to bed. If someone feels up to playing the first 25 just post a got it and go ahead.

I like us to discuss the situation after 25 turns though and will create a final roster after that.

I'll take the honors - got it

Checking in.
I'd go with a Curragh first as well; a Warrior won't save our neck, and the Curragh will explore + contact faster.
Curragh-Warrior-Settler.

And England is a great choice.

I did a mixture of all suggested. Just a word on my wish for a warrior. He was not thought as a military unit, but as a scout on land.

4000BC: Worker e reveals a hut on a river and incense. London settled on the spot, starts writing at min and a curragh.

3950BC: Worker starts to irrigate the wheat, then road it.

3600BC: London curragh - settler. I decide to pop the hut with the worker. We will not lose much due to that, because of the whale we get soon and I need some recon. As we have no unit the barbs have, we won't get barbs. Lux to 10%.

3550BC: We get maps from the hut, which is good (I think this is the first time I say that). Maps reveal lots of diamonds, 2 more huts, 1 barb camp. Exploring curragh spots another barb camp

3450BC: Curragh finds a crossing to the north.

3300BC: Curragh spots a green border.

3250BC: London size 3 - lux tp 30%. Contact Greece - they are up ceremonial burial and bronze working.

3200BC: London settler - settler (for now).

3050BC: York founded on the incense can share wheat with our capital.

3000BC: A Hittites scout visits us. They are up ceremonial burial and bronze working too, the Greeks have learned the wheel.

London curragh - settler. I decide to pop the hut with the worker... As we have no unit the barbs have, we won't get barbs.

Click to expand...

The Curragh counts as unit! Dumb luck .

Doc Tsiolkovski said:

The Curragh counts as unit! Dumb luck .

Click to expand...

I always wondered about that.

The city spacing seems a little tight (six tile overlap). For a space race and for Sid land grab I would go for greater spacing. Nice to have 2 lux nearby and some rivers.

The Curragh counts as unit! Dumb luck.

Click to expand...

Hmm, I remember that different and never had "bad" luck with it, but I certainly did not do it often enough to have results of any statistical value.

The city spacing seems a little tight (six tile overlap). For a space race and for Sid land grab I would go for greater spacing.

Click to expand...

I agree; I just did not want to wander to far with an unescorted settler on an unexplored map.

Just another thought about York. IMHO it is in a good position to be the GL city. It can use 2 wheats, a bg and has fresh water. It could easily get some forests too. That is not that great, but considering the surrounding territory it seems ok.