COTM 09 First Spoiler: Ancient Age

[Renata]

COTM 09 Spoiler 1: Ancient Age.

To qualify for this spoiler, you must have:

• reached the middle ages;
• have a map of all landmass(es) reachable via coastal tiles;
• have contact with most of the AI civilizations. (I'll ask you to use your own best judgment on what constitutes "most".)

If you don't meet these conditions, about-face and play some more until you do!

You'll note that there's no requirement that you meet specific civs or possess maps of specific coastlines in order to participate in the spoiler thread. Discussion of overseas contacts and diplomacy will be allowed, no matter which civ you wish to discuss. However, please recognize that others may not have the same set of contacts or know the same parts of the map as you do. Because of this, I will ask that you adhere to the following set of guidelines when discussing overseas civilizations and your interactions with them.

You may:

• discuss who you met and when you met them;
• discuss your efforts at (or lack of efforts at) diplomacy with them, and what the results were.

You may not:

• post minimaps that show anything beyond the starting coastally-connected landmasses;
• talk about your overseas exploration in any detail (i.e.: direction taken, number of turns to reach land, size of the landmass found, location of AI civilizations, etcetera).

In other words, try not to reveal map details to anyone whose exploring boats might have made contact with four or five civs only to get sunk before reaching the rest. I'd like those people to be able to share the story of their dealings with the AIs that they did meet without learning exactly where to point their next galley in order to find the civs they haven't met yet.

This thread is intended to encompass the ancient age only. You may mention happenings in the very early middle ages if that makes a more natural breaking point for you, but please save the details for later spoiler threads.

Got it all? Good. Don't make me sic Alan or Ainwood on you.

And remember: If you've opened the save, no more posting in the pre-game or saves available threads!


So, now that the do's and don't's are out of the way ---
How did you attempt to make the most of your marginal territory? Did any of the volcanos get you? What wonders did you go for, if any? Find any use for the Statue of Zeus? And what about foreign affairs? How aggressive were you in seeking out the AIs, and how easy or difficult did you find it to keep current in research? Any tales of AI-manipulation to relate?

Hope you're enjoying things -- see you in the next thread!

Renata

[StanNP]

I noticed some hidden text after Renata's sig during the pre-game discussion for COTM9.

GOTM Staff kleptomaniac

Now we know where the water and bonus tiles went!

StanNP

[Randy]

Open, Goal domination.

This map was different, it does not match my play style. So everyone will be happy that I didn't kill anyone off in the AA.

4000 BC: Trondheim founded, starts a warrior.
3750 BC: Warrior #1, start curragh.
3450 BC: Curragh.
3300 BC: Got warrior he will wait for settler.
2950 BC: Got settler. Start a curragh.
2900 BC: Bergen founded starts a worker.
2750 BC: Lost curragh at sea.
2710 BC: Got curragh.
2590 BC: Got a curragh.
2510 BC: Lost a curragh, got a curragh.
2430 BC: Lost a curragh, got a worker.
2390 BC: We see our first barb.
2310 BC: Got writing study Code of Laws.
2270 BC: Took out a barb village and a vet warrior.
2190 BC: Met Babylon.
2150 BC: Met Zulu. We give the alphabet and 4gp for masonry. Babylon gives bronze working and 10gp for alphabet. Trade Babylon ceremonial burial for masonry.
2070 BC: Copenhagen founded.
1910 BC: Got a barb village and an elite warrior. Met China, sell them Alphabet for The Wheel, Pottery, and 60 GP. There are horses on our island. Met America. They give Mysticism and 9gp for Alphabet. We trade Babylon the wheel and mysticism for iron working. No iron.
1830 BC: Met Hittites.
1750 BC: Lost 2 curraghs.
1725 BC: Embassy in America, and China.
1700 BC: Met the celts.
1625 BC: Reykjavik founded on horses.
1525 BC: We see our first barb boat.
1475 BC: Got code of laws first.
1425 BC: A barb boat took a curragh to 1hp.
1375 BC: Met the dutch.
1350 BC: Horses are hooked up.
1325 BC: Lost a curragh to barbs.
1300 BC: Lost a curragh to barbs. Oslo founded.
1250 BC: American war on Celts.
1175 BC: We get philos and republic for free. 5/4 revolt. Celts give lit, math and 24gp for code of laws. Sell America writing for 42gp.
1125 BC: Zulu demands code of law, we say no and they back down.
1075 BC: Become a republic, trade Babylon phiolosopy for map making. Trade American lit math, philso for poly.
1025 BC: Built embassys in all know AIs.
1000 BC The Hittites demand mysticism we say no, they do war.

Stats:

5 towns.
13 pop.
1 temple
3 workers
4 warriors (1 Elite)
1 archer
1 horseman

We get dutch and Babylon in the war.

900 BC: We got 2 settlers.
850 BC: Stockholm founded.
825 BC: Birka founded.
550 BC: Enter MA buy study.

[klarius]

Predator

I stuck to my plan for very early granary.
So settled in place, 100% pottery and build order warrior->granary->curragh->settler.

Towns

4000 Trondheim
2510 Bergen
2070 Copenhagen
1675 Reykjavik
1350 Oslo
1075 Stockholm
1025 Birka


So that's 7 towns with 16 pop. @ 1000BC
3 granaries, 3 harbors, no barracks
7 workers, 4 archers, 1 curragh, 1 galley
all techs except math, currency, construction and monarchy
7 contacts

850 Aarhus
800 Stavanger
650 Odense
610 Hareid
550 Molde
510 Alesund



And that was all on the home island except a fishing village I squeezed in much later.

Science
3350 Pottery
2070 BW, TW (traded)
1990 Writing
1910 Masonry, CB, IW (traded)
1425 CoL
1400 Mysticism, HBR (traded)
1225 Philosophy, Republic (slingshot) revolt for 3-turn anrachy
1200 MM, Polytheism (traded)
1000 Literature
775 Mathematics (traded)
610 Currency (researched), Monarchy (traded)
490 Construction and middle ages

Diplomacy
Even though I had only one warrior in the beginning it was clear quite early that we are isolated.
So I built only a few archers for barb control and curraghs for suicide missions.
The third curragh already made it over and I had contact with Babylon in 2150BC.
No barbs did disturb this little dingi, so I had all contacts by 1075BC.
Only trading, no war in the ancient age.
But the phony wars will soon start.

Wonders
Built the statue of Zeus in Trondheim in 670BC.
Soon the Mausoleum of Mausolos will complete to get a golden age.

Goal is just plain and simple conquest.

[solenoozerec]

Predator
QSC log that I wrote for this game is the most detailed among those that I ever wrote. I just submitted it and it took me >8hrs to finish it. Obviously it contains a lot of information which is not allowed in this spoiler.

I settled at the spot and my first builds were two curraghs as I initially planed (see pre-game discussion). I think it was a good decision. Another good decision from pre-game discussion was not to research pottery.

I do not know what to add to this, because most of what happened later relates to remote landmasses. It will be very hard to extract it from my QSC and I too exhausted to re-write it.

I entered MA at 650BC (the fastest MA I ever had) and my world looked like this:



What else can I say?
1. This is a great map, Renata and many
2. Main goals for the nearest future in the order of priority: 1. Research. 2. Diplomatic games with the rest of the world. 3. Development of the homeland. 4. Building fleet. 5. Building units.
It is almost a reverse order to my priorities in usual games.
Goal – domination as usual or maybe Conquest since it seems to be even easier goal.

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Predator, Barbs fixed

I *love* this map. Is that already a spoiler ?

Going for 20k.

Somehow I smelt the beacon.

Since there are some Civs in this game that often build The Colossus, I decided to not rely on any contacts, and pick a pretty strange research approach to be never loose shields when a wonder is built. That worked out surprisingly well; I wasted only one turn of production, and that only because I didn't know the autoswitch when a wonder is no longer available happens after the production phase. Had I know this, I'd switched via the Big Picture.

Start: Worker W, nothing fancy, settle on spot. Curragh, Bronze Working (I researched the entire AA techs at max).
Warrior after Curragh, another Dingie, Settler.
Learned BW in 3200, Writing next.
Settler built in 2900BC, heads for the Fish/Ivory spot NE of Trondheim (mostly for the commerce bonus, to speed up research). Started a Worker, while working the fishes.
1990BC: Writing->CoL
1550BC: Colossus->Barracks; after that, a few Archers (since I met 'Sumeria' already)
1425BC: CoL->Philo
1200BC: Philo. No free tech, crap. I mean, I have the Colossus...but I'm sure, some specialists will show up with a successful slingshot. Masonry next.
1100BC: Meet 'Portugal'. In other words, MM is known. But since I'm sure by now the Lighthouse won't help much, this is nothing I'm bothered about. My Curraghs were in lost already anyway.
1050BC: Masonry->Math. Only to have a backup wonder, for the worst case; since SoZ will trigger our GA, I want to finish this one last in the AA, when we're already in Republic.
950BC: MoM
775BC: Math->CB
690BC: CB->Myst; use TBP to get the Temple that very turn.
650BC: Found city #3 at the lake. No, I didn't found a single city in the game with any risk to get toasted.
570BC: Myst->Lit
480BC: The first wonder is built by the AI (Pyramids). No cascade, nice. Can keep the shields invested into the Oracle (don't expect to get it, just a prebuild for the GLib)
350BC: AI builds Oracle, will learn Lit next turn, fine.
330BC: Lit->Pottery
250BC: Pottery->IW. Found city #4 to grab the rest of the Ivory.
70BC: Great Library. Library next. Decide to not seek any contacts for now, to get more from the GLib.
70AD: Library, start prebuilding a Duct.
130AD: Barbarian uprisings.
170AD: AI completes Lighthouse. Nice, a stack of Barb Horses gets toasted by a vulcano . Construction->MM (for the Harbor)
210AD: Duct->Colosseum
290AD: MM-> Republic
320AD: Colosseum->Harbor
340AD: Harbor->SoZ
450AD: Learn Republic, revolt. 5 turns.
520AD: SoZ done, triggers the Golden Age. Trondheim makes 30spt during it. Research to Currency, start ToA as Market prebuild, done in 590AD. Churn out a Galley /turn for contacts, and in
660AD: Meet Babylon
680AD: Meet Zulu and America. IBT; learn the 1st tier MA techs.

I was slowly filling my landmass, and not hoping for any early trading opportunities turned out to be a wise move .
So far, the game went great...but the MA went much worse.

[solenoozerec]

I forgot a thing.
This guy:

Does it have attack 2 against AI too? If so than it looks more like a handicap for AI, not human. I lost only one curragh and no units to barbarians so far.

[Xevious]

OPEN

Well, this is my first completed game in a few months, and boy am I rusty. I made a couple early mistakes that I will have to keep in mind for the next game.

As discussed in my pregame post, I sent worker W, and not finding anything, settler went SW. The worker then went west to check out the water and found it salty, so I settled in 3950BC SW of start. Seeing how narrow our land is and knowing how much water there is, I decide to build a couple of curraghs first. The worker comes back to mine a couple BGs. A couple practice starts on 80% archipelago proved you can't always count on getting pottery in trade, so start pottery at 100%.

First curragh starts eploring our coastline (entering sea as possible to expand view). As I get close to finishing the second curragh, I'm starting to smell island, so I switch to barracks, and finish pottery just in time to switch to granary (3300BC). Now it's a race for Republic at highest science possible. Curragh is revealing an ugly looking northern territory.

When granary finishes I'm 8 turns from size 4. I decide to build archer then settler to keep pop up. Archer goes to explore rest of north area. I see the one tile lake and debate how to bring the water down. Initially I thought about settling the hill and clearing the jungle east of there, but later change to clearing the jungle and settling north of jungle by lake. (More on this mistake later.) Curragh has uncovered our whole island plus the little isle. Decide to head to sea. Meanwhile, the first settler is born in 2470BC and settles Bergen on the hill to the NE (west of ivory) and starts a granary.

Archer finishes uncovering north end. I see the one tile lake and debate how to bring the water down. Initially I thought about settling the hill and clearing the jungle east of there, but later decide to clear the jungle and settle north of jungle by lake.

Meanwhile, my curragh has mad contact with more land, and I meet Netherlands, Babylon, America and Zulu within a couple turns of each other. Get Burial and 25 gold for Warrior from America, and Masonry, Bronze and 34 gold for Alpha from Zulu. Sell Masonry to Babs from 83g. Next turn Zulu has the Wheel. Connect ivory newly built worker2. America learns Iron, trade Alpha and 53g for it and surprise (not really), no iron. Worker1 starts chopping jungle and worker2 joins next turn. Meanwhile archer is dealing with barbs at north end of island.

Learn Writing, and realize going for Map Making before COL may not be wise. So continue with COL, Philosophy, Republic. Figure I'll start a lighthouse prebuild and trade for Map Making in time. Meet the Celts, who are even in tech but loaded with gold.

With 2 turns left to chop jungle I notice the forest tile next to the lake and bang my head on the table. Well, too late to cry about it. Will settle hill so I can save the forest tile. That 2 turns is actually 1.5 since one worker started a turn early, so bring worker 3 in to finish chop next turn freeing the other 2. Settler moves to hill. Next turn, found Copenhagen, chop jungle, and start irrigating. I left the BG north of Trondheim unmined so as not to waste turns. I'll irrigate right through Trondheim to the ivory and plains and come back to the oasis later.

Meet China, trade Alpha for Wheel and 26g. So we have horses at least. At this point I have 3 cities, only Trondheim is on the coast. I'm debating where to build the lighthouse. 3rd settler comes in 1575BC and I decide to send it to the west coast on the hill NE of fish. This is where I'll build the lighthouse.

Writing is learned elsewhere in 1525BC, while I'm still 11 turns from COL. Little beads of sweat are forming on my brow. Trade Writing for Myst and 37g from Babs, and for Horseback from China. Right after I do that realize I've double the odds of someone getting Philosphy ahead of me, although F11 shows me leading in income. Meet Hittites who are 5 techs behind. So now I know everyone. Learn COL in 1300BC and start Phil. Found Oslo east of closest gem mountain. Learn Phil in 1075BC, get free Republic (after briefly considering Map), and decide to wait to revolt until this turns builds are done because I have a worker popping. This turns out to be a bad decision as I pull a 7 (SEVEN!!) turn anarchy with only 6 towns. I am not amused.

America demands Phil and when I refuse declare war. Dutch learn Map. Trade Myst, Math, COL,HBR for it. I keep Phil to trade for Poly later. Then decide to instead use it to buy alliance with Celts. Fortunately they built an embassy in my capital earlier. I found you can't build embassies in Anarchy.

Ath end of QSC I'm in the middle of a 7 turn anarchy. I still need Poly, Currency and Construction, and also want Lit. I only have 6 cities, 13 pop, 2 granaries, 1 temple (in lighthouse city), 7 workers, 1 warrior, 7 archers and 1 lucky curragh (the other 3 or 4 sank).

Soon after Zulu demands Phil and then declares on me too. Become Republic in 900BC and start Literature. America and Celts make peace in 825BC, breaking our alliance. Build embassy in Babylon and ally them against Zulu for Republic. Give them ROP and they are gracious. Use Republic to reinstate Celtic alliance against America (and get 49g). Join a couple workers to Reykjavik to speed lighthouse along. Start some library prebuilds. Literature in 775BC, start Construction. America finishes it one turn ahead of me. Should have chosen Currency. Start Currency in 590BC, Trade COL and RoP for Poly from Hittites in 550BC, learn Currency in 470BC and enter Middle Ages. Catch up Babylon and they get Feudalism, so I start Engineering to get to Berserks.


I think my biggest mistake so far has been missing the forest tile by the lake. I lost 20 worker turns doing that. I made plenty of other mistakes, but that was the biggest. Have to get back into the swing of things.

[Renata]

Originally Posted by solenoozerec

I forgot a thing.
This guy:

Does it have attack 2 against AI too? If so than it looks more like a handicap for AI, not human. I lost only one curragh and no units to barbarians so far.

It has attack 2 against everybody. I did a little testing and saw no difference in their development using the modified barbs. Certain civs did better and certain did worse, but overall things were almost identical. This surprised me a bit, but I suppose the AIs are so aggressive against barbs as a matter of course that they don't often have to defend. So I left them in as a sort of misdirection -- if I'd modified only the galleys, everyone would have known without question that the starting landmass was very small. I wanted there to be at least a *little* doubt going in.

I don't expect the galleys to be much more than a minor annoyance, either, but it's probably better than my first thought, which was to remove your starting worker. You can thank Ainwood for telling me that would probably be an unpopular option.

Renata

[whyohwhyoh]

This is my first GOTM. Got Civ3 for Christmas, although I have logged 100s of hours on CivI.

Great map by the way. I played open.

I started Curragh-Warrior-Curragh-Curragh. I decided to settle the lake first so I could share grasslands with the capital. And then again to the East for the same reason.

By 1000BC I had 5 cites pop 12 and was a Republic.
1 Barracks, 2 Granaries (one for 6 turn settlers, the other for workers)
5 workers, 3 warriors, 3 spearman, 1 curragh
Met all other civilizations.
Had all techs except, Constr., Curr, Lit, Poly, and Monarchy

I decided against all early wonders. Lighthouse seemed useless being surrounded by ocean. I couldn't find a sea lane. And SoZ would just produce a bunch of weak units that could go nowhere until Navigation. In a Republic and all that jungle I needed plenty of workers with a small military. After barbs were gone I reduced to maybe 2 spearman.

1000BC


10AD (Entered Middle Ages about 10 turns ago) Settler waiting in south for galley to island. Prebuiild going for Sistine.

[shortguy]

Open

After a few months off, I'm back at it.

I didn't do a whole lot in the AA. Researched, traded, did the Philosophy gambit, sent sailors to their doom, yada, yada, yada....

I got in a false war against the Dutch after not caving to their demand for 34g. After a few turns I got a peace treaty, but I had to pay 65g for it! Lesson learned.

This map didn't help me very much; I reverted to my old, half-disinterested way of playing. With no pressing threats/goals, I didn't feel very involved. The good thing, though, is that I didn't have to have any land units after I got all the barbs out of the way. I entered the MA sometime in the 400's BC. I'll probably go diplomatic, as it my "how to win when there's not much else to do" victory condition. I can't get the shield production to produce units for conquest/domination (though I might rethink this, as there is very little land and railroads and factories do wonders), and I don't like space race (I prefer to end it before then). All in all, though, it's been a nice game to get back in the groove with.

[solenoozerec]

Originally Posted by Xevious

A couple practice starts on 80% archipelago proved you can't always count on getting pottery in trade, so start pottery at 100%.

I think it highly depends on whether we are seafaring or not. My first curragh sunk, but second one found the land.

Learn Writing, and realize going for Map Making before COL may not be wise. So continue with COL, Philosophy, Republic.

In my game I learned Philosophy on the same turn with America. America was way ahead of everybody in tech. I think they were very lucky with goody hut popping. And this is why I wrote that not researching pottery and going on maximum directly to slingshot was a good idea. Otherwise I would not get Republic for free.

Originally Posted by Renata

I don't expect the galleys to be much more than a minor annoyance, either, but it's probably better than my first thought, which was to remove your starting worker. You can thank Ainwood for telling me that would probably be an unpopular option.

I probably would play predator anyway. But . You are very kind, guys

[Abegweit]

Predator. Barbs fixed in 1575BC

Barbs

My regular computer is in the shop so I have been playing this game on an old 500 MHz Athlon. I had forgotten about AOI patrols and the setting was on the default. In 1575 BC, one of my curraghs passed a barb camp to the north stacked with units. I realized what had happened and changed the setting immediately. I had built an archer 700 years earlier to deal with barbs and was somewhat surprised to find that he had never found enemies arriving for action. Du-uh! Imagine that!

I'm honestly not sure whether this helped or hindered me. Two barb camps immediately unloaded their stacked-up units on me. It was like a mini-uprising and there were several scary turns. OTOH, I had a fair amount of infrastructure in place and, in retrospect, I can see that it was pretty easy to clean them out. Right or wrong, that's what happened. My apologies if it helped. I didn't mean to do it.

Now for the game.


Growth

As I said in the discussion thread, I started by moving the worker west and then founded Trondheim on the spot when nothing interesting was found. I followed Sir Pleb's initial build order and it worked out exactly as he said it would. Thanks be to the master.

From the moment I first saw the opening positin, I had this ugly premonition that we were alone on an island. It turned out I was right. I had not expected it to be so small and rocky, though. Nor to be so far from other civs. With tons of pollution and jungle to clean up on top of that! In view of this, by the end of the Ancient Era I had packed 11 cities onto to the island with plans for two more and a fourteenth on the little island to the south. I'm sure that this will not win the Packus-Crammus Award; someone else will pack even more in. For these 11 cities, I had no less than 24 workers. Even that wasn't really enough.


Suicide and Research

As I said I would do (and, as I imagine, many others have done), my research order was <Pottery> <Writing> <Code of Laws> <Philosophy>. I indeed was the first to learn Philosophy. I chose Republic as my free tech, entered the "Big Picture" and revolted drawing a 5-turn anarchy. I revolted again and drew 4 turns. As I understand it, that's the same thing. Right? The Viking Republic was established in 1050 BC.

I'm not sure exactly when I I became certain that we were alone but, from my notes I see that I lost a suicide curragh in 3050 BC, so it must have been very early. I sent out 5 more. Four (including the first) died and two survived to explore foreign lands, gaining a decent understanding of the shape of our world. My first contact came in 1325 BC annd the last in 900 BC. The last two curraghs eventually died to barb galleys but not before they had mapped out almost all of the world.

Given the knowledge obtained about the world, I followed a fairly conventional research path. After Republic came Math and Currency. In 690 BC I turned off research, relying on the AI to come up with Construction in order to bring us into the Middle Ages. Perhaps I should have gone for it myself, as this didn't happen until in 330 BC. OTOH, I used the money saved for research in the Middle Ages, so it probably paid off. In general, I found the AI to be pretty useless as research partners.

QSC Stats

6 cities pop 14, 167g
8 workers, 2 warriors, 2 archers and 2 curraghs (plus 4 sunk)
3 granaries
All contacts but one
All techs except Math (due in three), Construction, Currency, Literature and Monarchy
In-game Score: 152 QSC score: 4067

[Darkness]

Predator, Barbs fixed

Fantastic map Renata!!!

I went for pottery before getting a successful republic slingshot. After that I tried to coordinate the AI's research by gifting them some techs. I entered the MA in 590BC.
I got lucky with a curragh, so I had met all AI's in 1200 BC or so, before a barb "galley" killed it...
My cities are almost identically placed as Klarius did. Nothing special to report, although I have to say 3 volcano's on such a small island was maybe a little wicked of the mapmaker... I had 5 lava stream polution waves already in the AA, so this bodes well for the rest of the game.

I am very pressed for time in the second half of this month so I'll probably be going for conquest/domination with berserks...

[Wanderer]

First game of C3C, thus first COTM

Playing thee lowest lev (Conquest, isn't it?)

Well, an interesting map, to say the least! Given what I've seen above, I no doubt chose the correct class to play in, and I suspect I might get an ambulance award for my QSC! Ahh well, here goes the info - I re-checked - it seem to be spolier free:

COTM 09
4000
Curragh 1 follows coast NE - see's ivory and fish
Warrior 1 SW - see's 2 ivory!
Oasis near start
Consider "pop" growing start - but I *think* that is either not allowed, or explicitly not able, so I don't try. Probably a mistake if it is allowed, since growth may be difficult.

We need towns near coast for boats. After some debate with me, I decide to build on start, so that I can get enough food to grow quickly, and will have access to 4 BG's, 1 oasis and 1 ivory.

We need pottery and writing to get map working, and I suspect we might struggle to find other civ's, to I set Pottery at 905 - 14 turns...

Growth in 10, settler in 15? Decide, since I'm playing conquest, that I can afford to go barracks (10) then settler.

Both workers W, will mine then road.

3950:

Warrior SW - Another ivory! 2w,SW1 is looking like a NICE place for 2nd city.
Curragh 1 sees coast going north. hope this island is not too small!
Workers set to mine - 3 turns ?

3900:

Curragh see's diamonds in-land, and a volcano.... hmm

3850:

Curragh1 reports that the coast is going XXXX direction. Land seem's quite small :-(
Warrior reports from SW that Many fish are seen off the coast, but the beach is VERY big. Put's away bucket and spade when I order him to.

3800:

Mine finished. Road and then what?

Curragh 1 says the island looks small!
Warrior1 agrees, though he's still angry about moving west, away from beach.

3750:

More volcanoe's spotted, and I fear the reports are right. North part of island volcanic and jungle ... initial city sprawl will be tight, to get enough workers to hack that lot...

Probably going to need to get Curragh going to go beyond the waves ... if those ninny sailer can handle it ... bahh, call themselves vikings?

3700:

Island almost naviagted. After some thought, decide to work next BG. Wonder if we shold have chopped that forest down?

Culture growth in 4, so ivory still a while away. Lack of fresh water a concern... though some vikings claim seawater tastes better ... must see what they've been drinking!

3650:

Navigation complete - not much to add. Will get warrior home to protect, and send brave viking boat doing some investigation - in and out of sea as possible...
3550:

Pottery in 3, town about to grow, barracks complete ...

3500:

trondheim grows, culture expands, mine 2 finished. Settler would be too quick - 5 turns. Change to Curragh - might get 2 out before swapping to settler. Commands set: cur, cur, settler (1 turn after size 3, then).

worker's road mine.


Pottery in 2 ... still no improve after playing with slider.

3450:

Curragh see's what MIGHT be calm water XXXX of island. They prepare to explore ... confirm - land is sighted.

3400:

Pottery! I think granary after settler! Now, how to get people to XXXX island? NEED map making ... go for that, or philo gamble ... sighs

Set scince on 100%, for writing. 36 turns at -2 ... thank goodness for "finding" that chest of gold when I started!

3350: XXXX island DAMNED small. Only 1 viable spt to build, and it will need to grow culture soon to get fish and whale.

3250:

Ivory connected.
Curr 3 built, change to settler (6). Worker to chop forest to speed up granary (next).
oops - left curragh2 on sea. Wonder if I'll get lucky. Bad moves with curragh1 means I've probably lost a turn there as well .. there might be a safer route still XXXX.

3200:
Curragh 2 survives. There MIGHT be something to the XXXX. Get's back to shore and prepares to be a brave viking (next turn).
Curragh 1 braves the path XXXX. Doesn't look too promising. Hope they have life rafts. Curragh 3 starts mving to check the XXXX.
Worker don't chop - it would be too soon. set to road so that I can get connection for 3 town (to the west, I think).

3150:

Looks like I was wrong about Curragh 2 seeing something. That's a big ocean out there...
Curragh 1 happy to report for duty... They brave further XXXX - at the end of a finger of sea, amongst the big bad ocean...

3100:

Curragh 2 bravely continues due XXXX ... they probably have more chance if they continue going XXXX than return. We drink mead in their honour, and forget why...

Curragh 1 return from the cold XXXX...

3050: No joy XXXX or XXXX, though brave viking sailor's proving their immense skills! Still all sending reports via seagulls (useful , that!) Curragh 2 send hopeful tiding of calmer seas, maybe,

3000:

research draining gold. Unit costs!
Trondheim grows, settler next turn.
Workers to forest to chop speed that granary.
Curragh 2 see's land. they are ALMOST there.
Curragh 3 has no land in sight.
Curragh 1 will move to try form the XXXX of the island.

2950:

No seagulls from Curragh 3. We stop paying their families 1 gp support.
Send of some fold 2 establish a new city ... W2,SW1. Road help them get there this turn. Workers start chopping (2 turns) while build set to granary (20 turns).

Curragh 2 report landfall .. will examine new coast, seeking towns to raid ... I mean talk to ...
AHA BABYLON. Ceremonial burial and bronze working, and 10G. I have writing. Cannot get them to trade both for writing. Should I hold out for a while, or get the BW and 10gp, or CB and 10gp they will trade... It is reported they are technologically advanced... let's get CB, since we shouldn't have to defend too soon, and we are looking to use berserker's for war, and unlikely to need initial war with longsword... war likely in middle ages, not ancient.

Well, at least they don't have mysticism.

2900:

Bergen founded. Set to worker. Writing drops to 20 turns.

2850: forest chopped - granary in 15. Writing in 19. Babylon have 2 cities, masonry and BW. BABYLON have 78 score, I have 74.

2800:
Curragh sees orange flags. looks for who planted them. Curragh 1 getting close to XXXX of island.

2750:
contact Willian, house of orange (ahah) - crazy Dutch. They have 2 cities, BW and 10gp.
They want CB, warrior code and 15 GP for CB. Ouch - but babylon are close, and I can't wait to take the chance.

2700: Curragh report seeing a dutch settler. We are behind in towns! sighs

2590:

spot the hittites. The don't have warrior code. have 10 gp. Only 1 city - they are far behind?

Curragh 1 braves to XXXX sea.

2510:

Curragh 1 sinks ... We drink mead in their honour, toast them as brave vikings, and stop paying 1GP to support their families.

2470:
Bergen builds worker.Take a chance on Bergen - start a colosus as pre-build. troops may be a problem.

2390: writing in 6 turns.
Babylon have masonry and wheel. Dutch have nothing new, and hitties still have 10gp, 1 city and no warrior code.
2350:
babylon have IW - they must have met people!

2230:

Hittites have WC. ah well, only 10 gp lost.
writing in 2. Then philo for free tech? or MM, or Lit? sighs...
2190:
sci to 90% save 1 gp
settler in 2.
still no new contacts.
Butch have the wheel.

2150: writing. Go with philo gamble (philo 18 turns? seems low - does that mean someone has it?

2110:

Change mind about collosus - it is just too slow growin in Bergen - looks like a BAD city choice.

Settler built - look to inland - I see a water source. set Trondheim to curragh.

2030:
Wrroker going to chop. See barb camp, realize I only have 1 warrior. Trongheim set to archer, then curr.

1990:

Copenhagen built. clear part of jungle. Workers are chopping forest - will pop what... must decide. Go with warrior.

STILL no new contacts. Falling behind!

1910: phew - forest pop's warrior, jst as barb looking at worker. Move warrior to worker, set to irrigate.

Sight yellows flags. at last.

1870:
zulu's have IW, masonry and the wheel. no writing. they would give IW and wheel for writing. Babylon wouldn't. hmmm - baby must be researching writing.

1790: see american scouts - the know they know wheel and masonry. Time to take the chance: no-one has writing yet, and philo is 7 turns away.

Trade:
writing to zulu for IW and wheel
writing to america for masonry.
writing to dutch for 75 g (all)
writing to baby for 42 gp (our of 52 g)
writing to hittites for 10g (all)

tech's still missing:
HBR (Zulu's)
tech's I have over others:
hittites,dutch:Masonry, IW
amer: IW
baby: none

1750: see dark green flags.

1725:
Dutch and I start colosus (29 turns for me).
Contact celts - only 1 missing now. They HAVE WRITING! Not philo - 5 turns. Please let me be first, Norse gods.
Celts are building pyramids - that might cascade...

1700:
philo in 3
zulu has math's,hbr
celt's have mysti
america has hbr, maths
hittites still -masonry, IW
baby has none....

no trades possible. I might get lucky with this, if I get philo first!

1675:

amer and zulu's trade HBR for

1650: last civ sight - no contact. Pink flags.

1625:
Yeeehaaa! Philospoy, and free tech! Take Lit - chance colossus to gret lib (42 turns). Start on MM.

Swap philo for HBR and mysti and 40 gp (zulu)
swap philo +38 for math's

Am ahead in tech race by literature.

1500: finally contact chinese. They are behind - don't have writing or math's. have 3 cities and 24 g.

1450:
trade masrony to dutch for 38gp

1250:
zulu has MM.
trade for 28 gp.
sell MM to america for 46g (all)
sell MM for celts for 39 g (all)
set sci for CoL (18) then rep.

1150:

Whip copenhagen to get settler.
trade philo to celts for 49 g (all).



1050 BC Stats:

3 cities
10 Units
9 citizens
4 workers

From this humble, or even POOR beginning, can a civilization arise? Await the next spolier to find out...

Bonus gold start for anyone who guesses how I am trying to win...

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

As much as I like the map, there seems one factor that is just too random here:
The Philo gambit.

Learn Phil in 1075BC, get free Republic

I learned Philo in 1200BC, and was not first. Solenoozeroc learnt it one turn earlier, and got lucky; that sounds reasonable. Since the effect of early Republic is crucial, I' afraid the results in this game will largely not depend on skills, but plain simply luck. Same is true for successful suicide runs with the very fisrt Curragh, but here, you can at least influence your chances by building more of the Dingies. I for one had no luck with both here, and I had the same streak of bad luck throughout the entire Middle Ages (like loosing 4 Zerks against 2 reg Muskets in a town on Desert, killing my entire assault plan against that Civ).
Still, this is a fun game, and I'm not complaining about the map. I just don't see how the results should compare fairly.

[Abegweit]

The slow REX in this game makes the philosophy gambit much more problematic than the typical Monarch game. It's more like an Emporer game in that regard. Going for 20K also complicates matters by making your growth even slower.

I certainly agree that you were unlucky though. Losing the slingshot is a huge setback. Sorry man. I learnt Philo the round after you. It never occured to me to think that I had been lucky. On the contrary, I thought I had had bad luck because I lost four curraghs but, as you say, that's just a minor setback.

[MikeH]

Nice map Renata, it looks like you've given us a builder's map with a non-builder Civ .

As this was an out of the ordinary map I tried a different approach on research from the normal Republic slingshot and used getting Philosophy first to get to map making as my curragh captains were getting fed up of sinking. My research path was Writing at min, Pottery at max, Philosophy at max and Mapmaking as the free tech. I'm not sure that this was a good idea as later events proved.

Brief timeline:

4000 BC Settle in place, curragh-warrior-settler-curragh-barracks

2710 Bergen founded and starts a worker

2470 Bergen completes worker and start a curragh
Having now mapped the starting island I send a curragh north on a suicide run and it sinks.

2350 Trondheim starts another settler

2030 Another curragh sinks on a suicide run.

1990 A Barbie appears out of the mist. Copenhagen founded.

1910 Yet another curragh sinks. Trondheim starts an archer for barbie hunting.

1725 Trondheim produce a veteran archer which immediately dies trying to kill the marauding barb so I finish it off with a warrior

1650 Yet another curragh sinks

1475 Contact! A curragh finds landand meet the Babs, They have BW, Masonry, CB and the Wheel and no money. I buy Masonry for Writing + 78 gold and CB for 167 gold.

1375 Philosophy and Map Making discovered. I meet the Hittites and the Dutch. I sell Philosophy to the Hittites for BW, the Wheel + 64 gold. I sell Philosophy and Masonry to the Dutch for Iron Working + 25 gold. I sell Philosophy to the Babs for Mysticism + 22 gold. I build embassies, all three are building wonders, so I hang on to MM to give myself a chance of the Lighthouse, \nd the only other available tech is HBR, which is not a lot of immediate use. Trondheim starts the Lighthouse

1350 Another curragh which had been sent westwards finds land and three barbarian galleys.

1325 Two of the barb galleys attack my curragh, fail to inflict a single hit and cause it to promote. My curraghs were due a bit of luck.

1225 Reykjavik founded on the horses. We meet the Chinese, who have nothing to trade

1025 We meet the Celts, they already know MM

1000 - The Dutch complete the Colossus and start the Lighthouse. The race is on!

975 My veteran curragh gets cocky and attacks a barb galley, wins, promotes to elite and meets the Americans. who also have nothing to trade.

950 Discover COL and start Lit. Trade COL to the Celts for HBR and Polytheism. I sell Polytheism to the Hitties for130 gold before the Celts can. I build more embassies.

900 Meet the Zulus who are broke and backwards

850 Oslo founded on the inland lake, this will be my only non-coastal city.

630BC Trondheim completes the Lighhouse, in the resulting cascade the Zulus get the Oracle.

610 Literature discovered and traded to the Babs for Maths + 118 gold. Start researching Republic.

550 Stockholm founded on the offshore island. Start GL in Trondeheim

390 Birka founded. Hittites try extortion and declare war when I refuse.

190 Celts build GL, I switch Trondheim, to SoZ which will complete in one turn exactly with no loss!

170 Damn! I forgot that SoZ + Lighthouse would trigger GA!

150 Zulus ally with Hittites against us

90 Republic discovered, my despotic GA with so few cities is doing so little for me that I decide to risk a revolt and get lucky with 4 turns on the first attempt. The Babs join the alliance against us. As I'm totally safe from them all I decide to cause a bit of trouble on the mainland and get the Dutch to ally with me against the Babs in return for Lit. and Poly. I trade Republic to Lincoln for Construction + 10 gold.

50 Aarhus and Stavanger founded.

30 Our revolt finishes and we hit the Middle Ages still in our GA.

Edit as typo resulted in inadvertent obscenity .

[WillowBrook]

Open Class, Barbs Fixed

This is my very first Conquests game, and I'm going for 100k Culture, which looks like it will be a rather difficult victory condition on this map.

My Ancient Age was not unusual, so I'll just give the highlights. The gory details (including gold amounts in trades, contact dates, and embassy foundings) will be in my QSC timeline (which I won't post here since it contains spoiler info) in case anyone is interested. I researched at max or close to for all of the AA.

4000
Settled in place, started curragh.
I skipped pottery and went straight for writing.

2850
Bergen founded.

2470
My third suicide curragh survives, and I meet the Babs.

2310
Learn writing, reluctantly trade it to Babs and Zulu for CB, pottery, BW, masonry (but I really needed pottery), switch both towns to granaries

2070
trade alphabet to Abe for mysticism

1700
Copenhagen founded

1525
Reykjavik founded

1475
Trade writing for wheel

1450
get COL, start philosophy

1425
Oslo founded, get IW from China

1400
Stockholm founded

1225
get philosophy, the Republic, trade COL and IW for math, HBR, MM and all AI gold, draw 5 turn anarchy and don't reroll

1200
note that the Babs got philosophy the same turn as me

1150
Birka founded

1000
Aarhus founded

Stats:
8 towns
12 pop
1 curragh, 1 spear, 1 archer (V), 2 warriors (1 V), 5 workers
2 granaries
6 contacts, 4 embassies
all AA techs except const, currency, poly, monarchy, and lit (due in 3)
ivory hooked up
132 culture
government: republic

I decide to keep reserach slow so I can build libraries before invading the rest of the world with Berzerkers; I only trade when there's money or a tech I want out there, though I do give some techs for goodwill here and there.

I get currency in 700 bc, trade for construction in 650, and enter the MA with polytheism in 610.

Here is my empire a few turns later:

[juballs2001]

my city placement looks exactly like klarius, so just look at the post near the top. i just finished this game but i dont know if i can say how i made out.
i basically went for the philosophy-republic slingshot.
i researched alpha then writ. then code of laws.
towns were prebuliding for a few turns so i built courthouses rather quickly after research.
i then researched literature and timed it perfect as towns were finishing courthouses and then switched to libraries.
i reached the other continent already with 1 lucky curragh out of 3, and met everyone during the next 20 turns. prebuilt for the GL(with the pyramids) and built in in the capital 20 turns later.
i got philosophy and got republic free. i became a republic a few turns later in 1400 BC.
i then traded writing and literature to all the other civs for the basic techs and had everything except monarchy, and currency in 1200BC.
i catapulted first into the middle ages in 975 BC with monarchy for free with peace against celts.
Well since the game is over i cant go any farther but my basic strategy from here on out, is cause turmoil on the other continent and build my infrastructure. i could see a slow middle ages, but i think i will be ok.
ARMY- nothing, and i mean nothing. no spears, no archers. only 14 workers barely paid for and 1 curragh floating about , it will sink soon as i will try the other way home from the west.