APPROVAL POLL: Turnchats

Chieftess · Feb 20, 2005

Code:

Article ?. All irreversible game actions must progress during a scheduled 
             gameplay session while reversible game actions (i.e. build queues) that 
             adhere to legal instructions can be prepared offline before 
             the scheduled turnset. 
            1. A turnchat instruction thread (TCIT) must be created at 
              least 3 days before the scheduled turnchat.
              a. All official instructions must be posted in the current 
                turnchat instruction thread. Instructions must be clear 
                and defined.
              b. Officials must post their instructions at least one hour 
                before the Turnset. However, offcials may make changes 
                to their instructions up to an hour before the chat, so long 
                as those changes are noted.
            2. The Designated Player shall be charged with the creation 
             of a date and time for all gameplay sessions.
             a. the DP must specify when scheduling the gameplay session(or
              when posting the TCIT) whether it will be a public gameplay session
              or be done offline.
             b. Any citizen may create a confirmation poll if they disagree 
              with any particulars for a scheduled gameplay session.  Any such
              poll must run for at least 24 hours and be considered final
              at the start of the scheduled turnset.

COL

Code:

"The instruction thread will be created by the President at least 3 days before the session is scheduled. The initial post should include the time and date of the session, the save to be used and note the style of the game play session.

The DP for each session must create a log of their actions that would enable a player to substantially recreate the actions during that session. This log, and a more descriptive summary of the session, must be posted upon the conclusion of the game play session. In addition, the save after all pre-turn instructions are carried out, the save after each 5th turn and the final save must be posted.

The DP may execute all reversible game actions (e.g. build queues) prior to the scheduled start so long as they provide a save that includes only those reversible actions.

Game play sessions will last a maximum of 10 turns. An extension of 1-3 turns is permissible to finish researching a tech or exiting an anarchy period so long as no other major activity during those turns takes place.

The DP may end the game play session at their will, or pass the save to another player."

I tried to take the concerns raised along with the viewpoint of the poll and get something that should work. 

"The President will create a post in a Game Summary thread that will provide a link to the starting save for each session, the Instruction thread for that session and the ending save for that session."

Black_Hole · Feb 20, 2005

No, 3 reasons:
1. "I tried to take the concerns raised along with the viewpoint of the poll and get something that should work. " what the heck is this? Copy and paste isnt always best CT
2. We shouldnt have confirmation polls for TC options, we cant tell a DP: "Sorry but American Idol will be on then, so you have to rescechule"
3. The CoL part isnt formatted, as stated in 1

DaveShack · Feb 20, 2005

Black_Hole said:
2. We shouldnt have confirmation polls for TC options, we cant tell a DP: "Sorry but American Idol will be on then, so you have to rescechule"

I probably shouldn't do this, but the confirmation poll is there to force the play session to be online.

Black_Hole · Feb 21, 2005

DaveShack said:
I probably shouldn't do this, but the confirmation poll is there to force the play session to be online.

which is another problem with it, but it could be used for my example above as well

Plus what is this:
"I tried to take the concerns raised along with the viewpoint of the poll and get something that should work. "
it is second from the bottom in the CoL
CT just copied and pasted statements in there

Eklektikos · Feb 21, 2005

Voted no for a number of reasons.

1) I'm a nitpicking pain in the neck to whom the inconsistent language of the article is abhorrent. "Turnchat" or "turnset"? Pick one and stick with it.

2) The law presented here is a mess. If this were simply a "what do we want included in this law" poll then that would not bother me so much, but as a finished law to which we will have to refer for guidance I consider it unacceptable.

3) Confirmation poll section of article as presented here all but destroys the principle of DP's discretion over turnchat scheduling and related matters. It's not just a way around offline play sessions, it can also be used to prevent sessions occurring at times that do not suit the majority of citizens. I'm not talking about moving them to suit the television schedules, I'm talking about someone with a timetable in a similar vein to that of Shaitan being elected as president and subsequently prevented from playing more than once or twice within their term.

Bill_in_PDX · Feb 21, 2005

I share Eklektikos' concerns.

Chieftess · Feb 21, 2005

As for turnchats and turnsets, I tried to find all the 'turnsets' as I could. Also, legalese isn't my expertese, and even if I tried to make it legalese, certain conspiracy theorists would have a field day...

ravensfire · Feb 21, 2005

The phrase "game session" would have been sufficient ...

A nice proposed poll post would have helped, but alas ...

-- Ravensfire

Gingerbread Man · Feb 22, 2005

2.b. is vague. What particulars? Be more specific, e.g. timing, preparation, discussion still occuring. Leaving it open to interpretation will lead to a mid-game crisis. And I've seen enough of them in my DG life.

NO

Eklektikos · Feb 24, 2005

Chieftess said:
As for turnchats and turnsets, I tried to find all the 'turnsets' as I could. Also, legalese isn't my expertese, and even if I tried to make it legalese, certain conspiracy theorists would have a field day...

I'm not looking for legalese, I'm looking for consistency and clarity. A constitution that does not meet those two criteria is likely to be far more controversial than one that does.

Chieftess · Feb 24, 2005

Then tell me how that ruleset can be abused. I don't know how it can.

MOTH · Feb 24, 2005

Chieftess said:
Then tell me how that ruleset can be abused. I don't know how it can.

The original proposed article carefully replaced turnchat with turnset and most of that has been un-done. The phrase "turnchat" should be rarely used as this will cause confusion in the case of an offline turnset or playsession.

As Ravensfire pointed out (both here and in the discussion thread) the term "play session" works better than both turnchat or turnset.

This looks like it might not pass as it is borderline right now. Either way, after the poll closes I will open a new discussion and propose a mock poll. Black Hole's concerns will not be addressed unless/until the discussion indicates wider support for his position.

Edit: to answer CT's question. The existing language can be abused by someone forcing public turnchats because that is the phrase used in the constitution. Reffering to an offline session as a turnchat is confusing at best.

Eklektikos · Feb 24, 2005

MOTH said:
The existing language can be abused by someone forcing public turnchats because that is the phrase used in the constitution. Reffering to an offline session as a turnchat is confusing at best.

Exactly. Use of the word "turnchat" in the wrong context within this article makes the constitutionality of offline play a debatable issue once again, a situation I believed we were trying to avoid.

Eklektikos · Feb 24, 2005

Here's the result of about one minute's work replacing the inconsistent terms in the article with Ravensfire's suggestion.

Code:

Article ?. All irreversible game actions must progress during a scheduled 
             game session while reversible game actions (i.e. build queues) that 
             adhere to legal instructions can be prepared offline before 
             the scheduled game session. 
            1. A game session instruction thread (GSIT) must be created at 
              least 3 days before the scheduled game session.
              a. All official instructions must be posted in the current 
                game session instruction thread. Instructions must be clear 
                and defined.
              b. Officials must post their instructions at least one hour 
                before the game session. However, offcials may make changes 
                to their instructions up to an hour before the session, so long 
                as those changes are noted.
            2. The Designated Player shall be charged with the creation 
             of a date and time for all game sessions.
             a. the DP must specify when scheduling the game session (or
              when posting the GSIT) whether it will be a public session
              or be done offline.
             b. Any citizen may create a confirmation poll if they disagree 
              with any particulars for a scheduled game session.  Any such
              poll must run for at least 24 hours and be considered final
              at the start of the scheduled game session.

Note that I would still vote against my own revision of this article due to the confirmation poll clause.

Eklektikos · Feb 24, 2005

And a similar cosmetic makeover for the CoL component:

1. The game session instruction thread will be created by the President at least 3 days before the game session is scheduled. The initial post should include the time and date of the session, the save to be used and note the style of the game session.

2. The DP for each session must create a log of their actions that would enable a player to substantially recreate the actions during that session. This log, and a more descriptive summary of the session, must be posted upon the conclusion of the game session. In addition, the save after all pre-turn instructions are carried out, the save after each 5th turn and the final save must be posted.

3. The DP may execute all reversible game actions (e.g. build queues) prior to the scheduled start so long as they provide a save that includes only those reversible actions.

4. Game sessions will last a maximum of 10 turns. An extension of 1-3 turns is permissible to finish researching a tech or exiting an anarchy period so long as no other major activity during those turns takes place.

5. The DP may end the game session at their will, or pass the save to another player."

6. The President will create a post in a Game Summary thread that will provide a link to the starting save, the instruction thread and ending save for each session that occurs during their term of office.

Donovan Zoi · Feb 24, 2005

It's good to have you back, Ek. Jimmy Stewart and all.

Actually, you forgot one.....the title of this thread. :lol:

In the name of objectivity, can we have a mod change this title?

ravensfire · Feb 24, 2005

Should this pass, I'll be posted a JR making sure that, for this article, the terms "turnchat" and "termset" essentially mean game play session, with no bias towards on-line or off-line play.

-- Ravensfire

Ashburnham · Feb 24, 2005

I think we can all rest assured that there will be plenty of JR's flying around in the next term. :rolleyes:

Provolution · Feb 24, 2005

Moderator, please shift my vote from Yes to No.

This will create a 14-13 No Majority.

ravensfire · Feb 24, 2005

Ashburnham said:
I think we can all rest assured that there will be plenty of JR's flying around in the next term.

Probably. Actually, if CT would just change turnchat to game session as needed in that article before posting, life would get a bit simpler.

Of course, nearly every ruleset has had a fair number of JR's in the first few terms. It's tradition! (that's a joke - laughing at that semi-witty remark is a good thing)

-- Ravensfire

APPROVAL POLL: Turnchats

Do you approve of this article?

Yes

No

Abstain

Moderator

Deity

Inventor

Deity

Eponymous

Grumpy Submariner

Moderator

Member of the Opposition

Dark Magus

Eponymous

Moderator

Emperor

Eponymous

Eponymous

Eponymous

The Return

Member of the Opposition

King

Sage of Quatronia

Member of the Opposition

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