China and Japan: The coming conflict

Azadre

One more turn...
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Sino-Japanese relations are at a critical juncture -- the often-tense relationship between Japan and China appears to be worsening, even as Japan's trade with China surpassed its trade with the U.S. in 2004 and China now is Japan's biggest trade partner. While economic ties between "China Inc." and "Japan Inc." may be warming, the possibilities of political confrontation and an arms race between the two Asian giants are becoming increasingly real.

Some analysts now worry that Asia is not big enough for both China and Japan: "You can not have two tigers prowling in one forest." Others counter that China and Japan can cooperate, acting as the "dual engines" of development. Still others take the middle ground, arguing that relations between the two East Asian giants will be marked by the coexistence of both cooperation and conflict.

Theoretical debates aside, to most Chinese, Japan represents a paradigmatic "devil," not only because of the brutality of Japanese imperialism and the sheer number of Chinese killed by Japanese troops in the 1930s and 1940s, but also because there is the perceived insolence of "little brother" Japan's offensive behavior toward "big brother" China.

Indeed, a deep-rooted and popular anti-Japanese enmity is re-emerging in China, especially among the young. Gao Hong, a Chinese researcher on Japan, said he was shocked when confronted with an outpouring of questions in an online forum about China's relations with Japan. "Over 4,000 questions were posted for me in just two hours," Gao said. "Many of the questions in the discussion were tendentious. One Internet user asked me why we don't just declare war on Japan."

While Chinese authorities have shut down many anti-Japanese Web sites, it now is common in chat rooms to read posters referring to "little Japs" and smearing Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi in insulting language.

Sino-Japanese "amity" is hardly enhanced by the recent development in Sino-Japanese bilateral relations. In September 2004, 400 Japanese businessmen hired as many as 500 Chinese prostitutes for a weekend sex party at a hotel in Zhuhai, a Chinese city not far from Hong Kong. Occurring on the 72nd anniversary of the 1931 Mukden Incident that led to the Japanese occupation of Manchuria, 90 percent of Chinese respondents to an Internet poll said they believed that the Japanese businessmen had intended to humiliate China.

Then in November 2004, a Chinese nuclear submarine encroached into Japanese waters. Two week later, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao snubbed Japanese Prime Minister Koizumi's invitation to visit his country. When Tokyo decided in December to ignore China's strong protests and allow former Taiwanese president Lee Teng-hui to visit, China lashed out at its neighbor, threatening retaliation.

As open hostility toward Japan is becoming prevalent among Chinese, it is met by an emergent Japanese nationalism that argues Japan should take a much stronger position in dealing with China and develop its military capability. In the early morning of Feb. 9, 2005, Tokyo took an unexpectedly bold action and informed the Chinese that Japan will take formal possession of a tiny archipelago in the Pacific waters -- the Senkaku Islands. Effective immediately, Tokyo announced, the Senkaku would be administered by the Japanese coast guard. "It is time Japan began protecting what is ours," says Makoto Yamazaki, director of the Japan Youth Association, "If our sovereignty is being threatened, we have a right to defend ourselves."

To add a final straw to the camel's back, in the most significant alteration since the end of the Cold War to the U.S.-Japan Security Alliance, Japan declared its readiness to join the Bush administration in identifying security in the Taiwan Strait as a "common strategic objective." Analysts called the move -- Japan and the U.S. to align over Taiwan -- a demonstration of Japan's willingness to confront the rapidly growing might of China. "It would be wrong for us to send a signal to China that the United States and Japan will watch and tolerate China's military invasion of Taiwan," said Shinzo Abe, the secretary general of Japan's ruling Liberal Democratic Party.

This deteriorating political situation between Beijing and Tokyo seriously complicates on-going "Six Party" talks over North Korea's nuclear weapons and of course, cross-straits relations between China and Taiwan. We are witnessing the emergence of a new and dangerous political fault line in East Asia.

Dr. Xiaoxiong Yi is a professor at Marietta College and Director of East Asia Initiatives.
 
Also, Japanese can be pretty prejudiced against Chinese (and Koreans). If you look at Japanese media you see that Chinese esp. tend to get blamed for crime. Japanese consider Chinese in a similar way to how many white people in the US see blacks. Don't forget one of the reasons Japanese were so brutal to Chinese and Koreans in WW2 was because they considered them sub-human and unlike the Germans they were never forced to confront their past. I considered going to Japan and I was warned that while white people or "gaijin" are treated with respect if still as outsiders, if you are Chinese or Korean don't expect respect. I know some Chinese who went to Japan with some Japanese friends and they said that there were vans driving through the streets belonging to political parties making racial insults against Chinese and Koreans. I understand that many young Japanese are OK, but many older Japanese are especially prejudiced. If you look at popular Japanese media such as anime and manga you can tell that their hard factual knowledge of China (at least China appears at all unlike Korea..) is pretty poor and most Chinese characters are extremely stereotyped. The point being prejudice and bias is not all one way. A popular theory is that the Japanese racial hatred towards Chinese is due to an inferiority complex since for most of their history they were vastly overshadowed by their much larger neighbour. Traditionally most Chinese hardly took any notice of Japanese, as it was too small to really care about. For 1000s of years most Chinese probably didn't even know Japan existed (though of course scholars and the court did). However, since WW2 it is definitely true that many Chinese, have developed extremely strong anti-Japanese feelings. This is also true of Koreans as well. The strange thing is they like Japanese pop culture like anime they just dislike the Japanese. As one Korean told me, "I like Japanese stuff like anime and games but I hate the Japanese people."

EDIT: the point I want to make is anti-Chinese and anti-Korean feelings in Japan are racially based much like say anti-black or anti-Hispanic feelings in the US. Chinese anti-Japanese feelings derive almost entirely from WW2 and mostly vengeance based. There's not much about Japanese being an inferior race so much as it is about going to kick Japanese ass for WW2. I think this is an important to realise if things are going to get better between the two countries.
 
Maybe my post is a off-topic, but I am curious to know the roots of the Korean, Japanese and Chinese people, u know, what mix of ethinics have created these three nations. I think they had a commom ancestral in Mongolia. Maybe this fact could be used to help explain that cold war and the racism between Japan and China.
If someone knows, I appreciate to learn :)
 
Uiler said:
Japanese consider Chinese in a similar way to how many white people in the US see blacks.

EDIT: the point I want to make is anti-Chinese and anti-Korean feelings in Japan are racially based much like say anti-black or anti-Hispanic feelings in the US.

This is a pretty absurd comparison IMO. Perhaps this would be true for the mindset of white Americans prior in the early 20th and 19 centuries. As a neutral observer (I'm not white, black or Hispanic), I've noticed that whites in American receive the vast majority of racism from blacks and Hispanics.

Also, In Japan there are several laws that actually discriminate against Koreans and Chinese from working decent jobs within Japan besides janitorial services. In the US racial discrimination in the hiring process is illegal. In fact blacks and Hispanics are given educational opportunities based solely on there own race known as Affirmative action.
 
I would think it is simply inferiority-feelings and lust for revenge.

Japan and Korea has gotten most of their culture, religion and technology through China. And let's not forget that both China and Japan has invaded and thought over Korea many times. The Khans invasion of Japan was stopped by tsunamis, and in the 19th and 20th century Japan developed faster than Korea and China and was just as bad imperialists there as the USA and Europeans.

I can understand why they dislike each other. But is the threat of any conflict real? I mean, norwegians and swedes has been in conflicts many times, and we still joke about stupid swedes here (and they about stupid norwegians), but very very few people here is seriously thinking of a new hot conflict between Norway and Sweden. I would think East-Asians would be able to put things behind them to.

Maybe another 50 years with peace and the problem will have dimminished?
 
@Cheetah: nothing like the WWII atrocities have been committed between the scandinavian countries, at least not recently.

@Azadre: I read an article about this in the latest issue of a magazine I subscribe to: Sino-Japanes Cold War .
 
Hmm, some quick words for the China-Japan conflicts (I'm running out of time).

1: Historical reasons. China has suffered from imperialism for the last 150 years or so, but mostly from Japan. They are the only power in the 19th and early 20th centuries that had the will to put an end to us. The Europeans powers just wanted economical profits. Any how, the deaths of the Chinese people caused by the Japanese from 1896 to 1945 is so, so much higher than any other country. We lost 30M people just in 1939 - 1945.

2: Diaoyutai Islands. This has been a hot spot for the last 30 yrs or so. The US wrongly "returned" it to Japan, thinking it "was" a part of the Japanese province of Okinwara (more on Okinwara later), but in fact, it's part of the Taiwan province under the Qing empire. Dowager Cixi gave it out to one of her favourite followers. Chinese people are generally so pissed off about this, that Japan is trying to use so many dirty tricks to take over it. It now seems that Japan is trying to take over the China seas.

3: Japan's attitude on Taiwan. Chinese people I know, think that Japan is using the China/Taiwan split to make chances and justifications for building up an army again (AFAIK, they were disallowed by UN to have an army after WW2, but...).

As a Chinese born and raised not in mainland, it's bad enough that my motherland is not unified yet, but we must have dignity. Japan cannot expect to take over our land and gets away with it.
 
Ah yes, the infamous "unequal treaties" that the Japanese and the Western nations subjected China too. To make Japanese interference with Taiwan even worse, one of the infamous unequal treaties forced China to give up Taiwan to Japan (older Taiwanese were all forced to learn Japanese). So even without the whole rebel province thing, Taiwan and Japanese interference is a obvious sore spot for Chinese pride. It brings back some very bad memories.

I think what is said is true. The Europeans only wanted to make money in China. The Japanese wanted to kill Chinese and make them suffer as much as possible. Oh and humiliate them. Which is why so much more anger is focused on Japan than the Western nations. It's one thing to be exploited for money. It's another to have your families slaughtered and your pride and dignity trampled into the dust by people who spit in your face. Oh and then refuse to admit it or apologise afterwards. No people, including Americans would take something like this lying down.
 
lobster said:
As a Chinese born and raised not in mainland, it's bad enough that my motherland is not unified yet, but we must have dignity. Japan cannot expect to take over our land and gets away with it.

Why? :confused: How does your "motherland" not being "unified" affect you in any way, other than in your head?

I do not mean these questions in an insulting way, but I'm just curious how your day-to-day life is actually affected? This would be akin to an Englishmen lamenting the fact that the U.S. rebelled agains the motherland, which doesn't make any sense to me.

Dignity has nothing to do with it. It is about power. :rolleyes:
 
@Double Barrel

I think it's more like asking how a German immigrant in US feel about Germany being split into east and west. (maybe I'm wrong, please forgive my ignorance)
 
Double Barrel said:
Why? :confused: How does your "motherland" not being "unified" affect you in any way, other than in your head?
I have a question on this: Can someone explain to me what the Chinese consider as their "motherland", and why did you say that it's not "unified"?
 
Chinese people are too nationalistic, even for me
 
Another thing that grates on Chinese is the Japanese refusal to take responsibility for their actions in WW2. There is a saying in the ME - what they say in Arabic is more important than what they say in English. Japanese governments present a pretty face for the sake of the *western* media (not the Chinese or Korean - they couldn't give a rat's ass what the Chinese or Koreans think) about their regret etc. etc. Note that they never come right out and apologise or admit culpability. Domestically they play up the nationalistic angle, saying they have nothing to apologise for, they doctor the textbooks to deny Japanese atrocities and honour executed war criminals. They also attempt to fustrate any attempt by their victims to gain recompense e.g. the comfort women. This has led to the development of a modern Japan which is the Asian-Pacific equivalent of Holocaust deniers. They sincerely believe that Japanese did not do many bad things and insist that the Americans are the real bad ones because they dropped two nuclear bombs on them. When Japanese do WW2 movies they love to focus on American bombings or the nuclear bombs because they present themselves as victims. Recently a big feature film was released in Japan saying the Japanese only invaded Asia to free the people from Western colonial oppression. The only Japanese movie I've heard of that focuses on Japanese actions in China or Korea shows the Koreans *attacking* innocent Japanese civilians as the Japanese retreat. Not only is there nothing about what Japanese did to Koreans, they portray the Koreans as the bad guys! There was a manga released which showed the comfort women as doing it willingly because they wanted to help the Japanese soldiers. The Japanese are measly mouthed and insincere on the issue of WW2. To the West they present this nice image. But domestically they deny, deny, deny and have this image of themselves as the real victims due to the nukes and to Asia they present the proverbial finger.

If the German government denied the Holocaust and routinely gave survivors the shaft how do you think Jews would think of Germany? The constant humiliations and prejudice ethnic Chinese and Koreans suffer in Japan as second-class citizens (so that many change their names and pretend to be Japanese) in modern times just add further insult to injury.

On the Chinese (and Korean) side there will be no reconciliation until the Japanese take responsibility for their actions in WW2.
 
@Uiler: Has Japan issued an official apology for the activities of Unit 731 and the various war crimes that other military units committed (e.g. of Nanjing) yet?
 
Here is a good article on Japanese actions in China. First it goes into detail on the various arguments over the precise number killed at Nanking (it criticises the Chinese too so no it's not one-sided). Here is a description of typical Japanese actions in WW2 and why the Chinese are so pissed off with the Japanese too.

http://www.warbirdforum.com/massacre.htm

The article was originally published in the Japan Times.

Perspective? In that case, what the Japanese military did in Nanjing looks like a sideshow compared with what they did in the rest of China.

In much of northern China, the military had a deliberate policy of destroying all villages and killing all who might possibly be of help to the other side. A much-documented horror was the practice of "blooding" new recruits by having them bayonet to death any captured Chinese males that might be at hand.

Japan's brutal and ceaseless wartime bombing of undefended civilian targets in Shanghai and Chungking would have to rank fairly high in the list of atrocities perpetrated by allegedly civilized nations, even if today we have some competition from Chechnya and Yugoslavia.

The sum total of Chinese killed during Japan's decade of aggression is well ahead of the Holocaust. It approaches the level of Nazi killings against the Slav peoples, for some reason excluded from Holocaust memories.

Many of the Japanese killings were just as deliberate as Nazi killings in Europe: the massacres of entire Chinese villages in Malaya, the 40,000 people coldbloodedly selected for execution in Singapore and the untold thousands of leftwing Chinese rounded up for torture and execution or dispatch to the germ-chambers of Unit 731 in Manchuria.

And the assumptions of racial superiority were probably just as ugly. Japanese conservatives still complain bitterly about how up to 10 percent of Japanese soldiers held postwar in Siberia died from cold and overwork over some five to six years of imprisonment. Soviet apologies and compensation have been angrily demanded. Meanwhile, the 40 percent death rate in two years of Chinese civilians press-ganged to work as forced labor in Japan was first denied and then shrugged off as just one of those things.

Clearly a Chinese life was, and still is, valued at far less than a Japanese life.

Some Japanese rightwingers justify this brutality by claiming Chinese civilization had degenerated to the point where the Chinese themselves saw life as cheap. Yet while the Japanese side was killing Chinese prisoners out of hand, the Chinese side was carefully looking after and repatriating Japanese prisoners. Just whose civilization was degenerate?

Where the Japanese can claim just a glimmer of morality was that they only killed those Asians suspected of being anti-Japan. They tried to be nice to those considered to be pro-Japan. Nazi killings of the Jews showed few such mercies.

But while Germany today apologizes, Japan prevaricates. Especially ugly is the way rightwingers and conservatives here airily dismiss the need to dredge up details of the past, but then pounce with minute detail on minor discrepancies in otherwise undeniable accounts of past atrocities.

A doubtful statistic on page 176 or one misplaced photo on page 274 is enough to slam the author and argue that maybe was no atrocity to begin with.

Equally ugly is the official habit of denying wrongdoings by claiming there are no official records. One reason for the absence of those records, of course, was the official policy of destroying all incriminating records as soon as the war ended.

The only reason we now know in detail about the Chinese forced laborers is because the only one of the many meticulous wartime reports on the subject not to suffer destruction at war's end accidentally fell into the hands of the Taiwan authorities and could not be denied.

In Europe today any attempt to deny Nazi atrocities is a one-way ticket to denigration and possibly jail. In Japan today atrocity denial can easily be the path to fame and adulation in the conservative factions that control this nation.

On top of all this is the curious rightwing logic that says continued Chinese unhappiness over past and current wrongs is evidence that deep down the Chinese have always hated Japan, and therefore never needed to be apologized to in the first place.

Whether or not Nanjing suffered the amount of violence claimed by Chang is irrelevant. Whatever account we look at, it is clear that Japanese soldiers there killed and raped in large numbers. Indeed, ever since the first Japanese aggression against China in 1895, the Chinese nation has been raped repeatedly by Japan.

The Chinese are a proud people. Today they are asked not just to live with the rapist and accept his halfhearted apologies, but also to put up with backhanded claims that maybe the rape was deserved, or never happened at all. They also see a postwar Japan that has prospered through joining the United States in an alliance aimed to keep the former China victim backward and contained, and a Japanese rightwing trying hard to help detach some of the booty from the first 1895 "rape," namely Taiwan.

If I were a Chinese I would be very angry. Probably even angrier than Iris Chang.
 
Again, thanks Uiler. ;)

@King Alexander

After WW2 (or the Eight Year's War of Resistance, as how we call it) ended, civil war broke out in China between the US-friendly Nationalists (Kuomintang) and the Communists. The Commies effective won, the Nationalists high profile officials, the remaining army, the rich people etc fled to Taiwan, the last province that the Nationalists could hold (plus a few islands on the shore of Fujian). The Communists could not go over because they had little to no navy. The civil war did not officially end, there was no truce (unlike Korea), the two sides are still "technically" at war, even now. This is why to me, China is not unified yet.

EDIT:

@YOM: AFAIK, no. :mad:
 
Japan is acting pretty horrible indeed. but these tensions aren't really going to desolve into armed conflict aren't they? Certainly not with the USA standing behind Japan and taiwan.
 
Uiler said:
EDIT: the point I want to make is anti-Chinese and anti-Korean feelings in Japan are racially based much like say anti-black or anti-Hispanic feelings in the US. Chinese anti-Japanese feelings derive almost entirely from WW2 and mostly vengeance based. There's not much about Japanese being an inferior race so much as it is about going to kick Japanese ass for WW2. I think this is an important to realise if things are going to get better between the two countries.

How can you even compare race relations between hispanics/blacks and whites to that between japan and china/korea? There wasn't a holocaust of black people and hispanic people, they don't HATE white people. White people in the US don't say the N-word and other racial slurs when they see minorities, we generally get along. A very bad comparison, but with other things and the other posts in this thread, i have to say you are dead right. Japan does pretend that WW2 and Nanking never happened, or they seriously sugercoat it.
 
Yom said:
@Uiler: Has Japan issued an official apology for the activities of Unit 731 and the various war crimes that other military units committed (e.g. of Nanjing) yet?

I don't believe so. I believe some measly-mouthed statements about regret that sounds good in the English press but no real apology or taking of responsibility. If a Japanese PM ever made a full apology for WW2, he would be taken down by his own party. In Japan you gain political power by denying that anything happened. An apology would be political suicide. Many Japanese politicans have trouble enough even admitting anything happened, at least against Asians.
 
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