New unit: ME262 (Feb 25nd, 2005)

Why another ME262b unit? There are two (or maybe more) already. The one by Wyrmshadow is simple too large. The scale of the craft is that of the largest bombers. The other one I found (from TVA22) has no civ-specific coloring, and is covered in Nazi logos. And so would only be appropriate to a Facist Germany.

This ME262b is based on the unit by TVA22, which was in turn based on the stock Civ3 fighter. My changes to TVA22's work is probably greater then his changes to the original unit, but I wanted to give him credit for the base unit.

This unit includes

Civilopedia Icons
Units32 icon
Animation files
Sound file
Civilopedia.txt content
Pediaicons.txt content




This is my first unit. I originally set out to a modern Machinegunner as my first unit. Well, as I'm sure you can all imagine, that went rather badly. Things that breath are harder then things that don't. So since I also wanted the ME262, and wasn't satisfied with what I could find, I did this.

I'm not sure I'll be making alot of units due to my lack of a good 3d modeling program. This unit (and all its files) were made in Photoshop. Yup, 1 frame at a time by hand. So while I'd like to think the quality isn't bad for a first effort, I'd also have say that this method of unit creation is slow and tiresome.

I hope you find this unit interesting.

Very nice first unit Well done with the pilot bailing out

It's not bad, but it may have been better to base your work on a better model, like this one:




Look here:
http://www.cdgroup.org/forums/tbs/civ3/viewtopic.php?t=5203

But there sure was a lot of work in your plane, so keep up!

Thanks for the kind words guys.

DoubleT: I had fun adding in the parachutting pilot.

Ares: I completely missed the unit RipTide did 2 years ago. I do not know what the scale he did his too, but the comments say he used the same model as Wyrmshadow, which would mean his final plane would have been too large (since WyrmShadows was much too large).
I thought it would be easier to get the scale right first and then make the best one I could at that scale. This one is the same scale as the stock fighters, which is in my opinion the correct scale. Having the most beautiful fighters, but having them the same size as Boeing 747's makes no sense to me.

What do you think? (PS: thanks for the cool link)

I'll download Riptides version and see if the scale is correct. If it is, I probably wasted my effort since he is much much better then me at this.

---edit---
Here is a screen shot of my humble effort next to Riptides superior work.



However even though his looks much better, you'll note that his scale is wrong. His wingspan is twice what mine is. It is harder to make a unit both cool and small. This is why many artists err on the side of too-big. After all, you can have more detail if you use more dots to draw it. And the pixel count in Riptides beautiful but incorrectly scaled unit must be more then triple what I was allowed to use by keeping the scale of the craft correct in relationship to the size of the existing jets and planes already in the game.

Rather arrogant of you to claim that someone that has made many, MANY aircraft to replace the default grafix as the wrong scale. I am of cource speaking for myself and RT since our stuff is much larger than that terrible Firaxis stuff. Show me someone that likes Firaxis defaults better than any of their replacements and I'll show you a Stick-in-the-mud. We ARE the new default scale by just the volume of our work.

Your stuff looks fine, for something that should have been around in 2002. I am being very frank. C&P stuff just can't compete with real 3d work.

Wow, Wyrmshadow. I was unaware that there was a SMUG alert for the boards today. Indeed, how dare someone take the time and effort to create and post a unit that may be in keeping with the base units size and flavor. He should bow down to you since your work is SO good that it has become the base that comes with all Civ packages now.

Personally, I like the larger units (some of yours included), but there are others who believe in re-sizing and those who believe that civ-colors are needed on most units. That's not something to throw a fit over.

And I'm sorry that I had to leave a post like this.

People are too nice when they give "constructive" criticism here. Except of cource whenit came my first early work. All sorts of people were quick to point out how only THEY knew how to make something better than the artist. I haven't seen posts like that in 2 years.

Whatever happened to "hmmmmmmm, needs work"?

I guess in the future I should look out for poeple that take the 2-3 year old work of a previous artist, add a parachute, claim a new unit has been made and everyone rushes to congradulate them.

I took offence at being called the 'wrong' scale. When the 'wrong' scale becomes the vast majority, it becomes the norm. The old firaxis scale is in turn superseceded by newer and better quality work. I tried to make my very first units to the same scale as Firaxis. Result? CRAP. Making an aircraft that is 10 pixels high is a waste of time, so I changed my scale.

BTW, this is what a 262B really looks like.

This unit (and all its files) were made in Photoshop.
Very good unit.How much time you spend making it?

Good first unit Bjornlo.

@Wrymshadow: This is a good first unit for Bjornlo. I've tried making units, and thus far all my efforts have come to naught. To have gotten this far is an accmplishment, even with a borrowed model. Did you forget to take some pills or something?

Read the comments: "It's not bad" "Very nice first unit". Is Brjornlo as good as Kinboat, Aaglo, or you? No. He admits that your plane looked better, but he felt the scale was off. That's his opinion. He wanted to present what he felt was a better scaled option for people who liked Firaxis' scale. He is entitled to his opinion as much as you are yours. But that doesn't give you the right to blow up on him.

I agree with you too Manny Kant. I'm sorry I had to leave a post like this.

Saying something is wrong is not an opinion. 2+2=5 is not an opinion, it's wrong. The opposite of wrong is right/correct. And guess what else? Folks can still take offence at an opinion. The KKK has an 'opinion' about some things that a great many take offence at.

But that doesn't give you the right to blow up on him.

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You don't know what a real flame is do you? Seeing as how you've been here less than a year, you must have missed the real fireworks when I once posted stuff on CFC. No, blowing up at someone is throwing around a lot of expletives and rude metaphors and thinly veiled threats. I did none of those. I meant just what I wrote. Someone said that I made a unit (and by extention all 300+ of my units) the wrong way. And so I took offence and wrote what I thought of his work. Fair's fair.

Wyrmshadow said:

Palantir30 said:

This is in response to the comments in the ME262 thread.

The OP clearly put time into his diction to show that he was discussing his opinions, not the state of the entire world according to him.

You on the other hand, seem to belive that your opinions create the 'new' reality.

I'm going to make sure I have not downloaded any of your units/improvements to make sure that I am not hypocritically enjoying something created by an ego case such as yourself.

Although I do doubt I have because I dont think that a fighter plane should be bigger than the mountain it's flying over...

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Good luck with that because you'll be hard pressed to find a modern or industrial scenario that DOESN'T have any of my units.

I was speaking from a position of supreme authority on the matter. I have made close to 400 units. That's a FOUR with two zero's after it. How many have you made in the 2 month's since you've registered on CFC??? hmmm??

Next time try not to bring a knife to a tank battle, because there won't be enough of you left to fit inside a snuff box to bury.

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1) Thank you for helping me make the search to purge Wyrm-made icons form my library more efficient.

2) Supreme authority? Go take your ego to the deflator. My time since register date impacts my ability to form opinions? Another laugh. Why dont you throw my post count into it and make it a trifecta? My post count is under 10. Clearly, that makes me an idiot.

3) thinly veiled threats? Now THAT's the moral highground of a supreme authority.

this post was brought to you by the "give them enough rope to hang themselves" foundation.

Sorry Wyrm. You might be able to creat very good 30 by 30 pixel figures (or whatever), and a lot of them too. Doesnt mean you arent an.....well you get the idea.

Wyrmshadow said:

Rather arrogant of you to claim that someone that has made many, MANY aircraft to replace the default grafix as the wrong scale. I am of cource speaking for myself and RT since our stuff is much larger than that terrible Firaxis stuff. Show me someone that likes Firaxis defaults better than any of their replacements and I'll show you a Stick-in-the-mud. We ARE the new default scale by just the volume of our work.

Your stuff looks fine, for something that should have been around in 2002. I am being very frank. C&P stuff just can't compete with real 3d work.

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No, arrogance is thinking that your work is above reproach.
Arrogance is having a signature that extols your own virtues, while belittling the equally and often more time consuming work of others ("Any monkey can MOD a scenario. Not everyone can make a good unit." ring any bells?)
Arrogance is demanding that everyone accept a greatly enlarged scale as better then the game designers... We should all replace all our units just to accommodate you?

There is someone in this conversation that meets these and other criteria on arrogance in this conversation, but it is not me.

I admitted quite freely that my work was crude next to Aaglo's, Bebro's, Kinboat's, Riptide's, utahjazz7's and yes even yours. I lack your nice tools and your skill with them. But you know well that you've gotten quite a few complaints in the past about your inflated scale. Though none of these complaints were from me, since I saw from your replies how churlishly you often deal with even a hint of dissension from your personal views on any aspect of your creations.

I don't admire the way you conduct yourself on these boards. But I do admire your great work. I personally doubt I will ever create anything to revile what you can do. I'm sure that even if you limited yourself to the tools that I have, you would still exceed me. But you should not mistake great skill in vehicle creation for greatness. I'm very good at somethings too, but I know enough to realize that even in the areas I am at the top of the of the heap, I should still remain humble enough to accept that someone else might have a different or even better idea.

I know it is easier to make a large unit have more detail. Triple the pixels = triple the maximum detail. And I know you want to show off the power of your tools and your skill in creating those vehicles, but there is already a set scale in the game. Allot of units are built to this scale, including all the built in ones. Not wanting to have fighters larger then bombers is a reasonable goal.

BTW, on the off chance you're still reading and not fuming because I'm not some sycophants glued to your posterior, I am thinking about redoing more of your units to correct their scale. This will mean loss of detail both due to my cruder tools and far cruder skill. So while I'm sorry you're so angry, you're going to angrier still when you read basically the same stuff again. You could of course beat me to the punch, in fact I hope you do, since as I said I can't match your skill nor your tool for quality of output. And, I suspect that even in standard scale, your units would still be miles above anything I could do. But, as large as they are, they're of no real use to those who (like me) prefer the standard scale.

If that is what you have in mind then take a look at this thread

And as for my posterior, it's barnacle free thank you. I treat fanboys with even greater disdain than those that simply dissagree with me. If you disagree with me, you won't talk to me for long. If you are a fanboy, you wont STOP leaving me alone. Guess which one is more annoying? You may say that you dissagree with the things that I post, but you obviously have not been following most of what I post. I discourage poeple from building a nest in my seat all the time. I make units for poeple to enjoy and to outdo myself with every new work. I don't do it to make friends, I have those already. I'm not arrogant, I think of myself as a veteran unit maker.

Wyrmshadow said:

BTW, this is what a 262B really looks like.

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Well I read up on the armaments of the 262 and there are actually more then 1 262b varients. Your GIF is certainly one possibility. And definately an attractive, if large, take on it.

But this is just a plain 262 (not the night fighter). I named this a 262b in file name, but the text and all the rest refer to a 262a1.

I named the file and the ini as I did so those that install it would not unwittingly over write yours or Ripptides versions. I thought there was a good chance there would be many that prefer these larger, prettier models, and I wanted to make sure they would not lose what they had by looking at my take.

Wyrmshadow said:

If that is what you have in mind then take a look at this thread

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I'd already seen that thread. I mentioned the possibility of not just offering an alternative to your file, but an actual remake of one since I know you don't like it and wanted to forewarn you I was thinking about it. That way you still will probably take it wrong, but at least I gave you fair notice.

And in case you missed me giving credit to the base model I used (see the first post in this thread). I always try to give credit if I use someone elses work.

Of course, I'd rather you did the standard scale stuff yourself. It would look better and save me the trouble.

shnjavi said:

This unit (and all its files) were made in Photoshop.
Very good unit.How much time you spend making it?

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Thanks, nice of you to say.
It took me a little over a week of evenings and slightly longer on weekends. Perhaps 20-30 hours. A long time, but it was all new to me. I suspect a 2nd one would take me 1/2 that. Unless I get ambitious and give another go at making a modern machine gunner.

Bjornlo said:

That way you still will probably take it wrong, but at least I gave you fair notice.

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Fair notice that you'd do something without 1st asking permission. How nice of you.

Bjornlo said:

Of course, I'd rather you did the standard scale stuff yourself. It would look better....

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That is an opinion of a very small minority.

Good Lord, we could use a moderator in here to shut buddy up. I thought you buggered off to CDG anyhow, Wormy, cuz nobody liked your attitude? Be my guest...

Wyrmshadow said:

Fair notice that you'd do something without 1st asking permission. How nice of you.

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The perils of items in the public domain. I did not have to notify you. I did not have to give credit to any base models used. But, that is not how I operate. I believe in giving credit where credit is due, even if the recipient is not my idea of a pleasent person.

Wyrmshadow said:

That is an opinion of a very small minority.

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You should read what I wrote more closely. I said that most users would prefer standard scale items produced by you over the standard scale items produced by me.

Wyrmshadow created a poll which asks which scale you prefer.

Standard or his large one.

Got an opinon?
Go to the Poll.