GOTM 40 Spoiler 2: Entering Industrial Ages
- Thread starter ainwood
- Start date
PREDATOR ![[ptw]](/images/smilies/ptw.gif "PTW Icon [ptw]")
AA
Going for Conquest victory.
---SUMMARY---
Finally! A truly isolated starting location! The map was really clever and I realize I've been waiting for a map like this for as long as I've played GOTM. This is also my best GOTM to date, regardless of what stupendous results others may have pulled off.
I can recall one major mistake: researching Monarchy. The reason I did it was mainly that I overestimated the AI research capability (thinking they would do both construction and currency for me in the meantime), but also I was not sure about which victory condition to pursue at this time. Secondly, I may have had too few towns in the early Ancient Age - building more settlers with not only the capital is something I need to work on.
---Exploration and contacts---
Having the Great Lighthouse made it a lot easier to make contact. As I passed the one tile Barbarian Isles I was as much concerned about being sinked by barb galleys as sinking, since there were no sea tiles around those isles. This was probably ainwood's intention too. In the end I don't think I lost a single galley on treacherous waters; three ships crossed safely over to Persia.
I met Persia in 775 BC and soon afterwards Zulu on the other continent. The first galley that made it over was later on the receiving end of a total of 4 hoplites, 1 MI and one settler to claim the horses on the empty island I chose to call "Madagaskar."
---Key dates---
975 BC - The Lighthouse was completed and it enabled vast exploration.
775 BC - I made my first contact. This saved me the drudgery of having to research many basic techs like iron working and the wheel.
310 BC - Colossus was finished in Sparta. Sparta was my little baby from the start. It was an unexpected thing to build a wonder that I had previously used as a pre-build to another wonder.
430 AD - Did I really believe that I was going to attack someone with hoplites in order to start a Golden Age? I had tried for decades to make Zulu attack but to no avail. Then the Zulu archer almost got the better of my two hoplites, but was at last defeated.
470 AD - My first horseman was finally produced, and my Golden Age had barely started.
680 AD Up to this year I had only captured one town. During the next 30 turns I captured or razed 70 cities/towns, not counting the 2 flipped ones I had to retake or the two I got in a peace deal.
This is the best timed GOTM I've played:
* Just two turns before the end 4 rivals were still alive. On the penultimate turn, 3 were still alive on different continents. This shows that the troop deployments were reasonably well estimated in terms of numbers, time of invasion and agressiveness during the invasions.
* I didn't lose patience by starting to build units or barracks but had the integrity to build aqueducts, universities and even a few frowned-at colosseums, up until horsemen became available.
* The Golden Age allowed me to completely outrun the AI in research, and even though most AIs reached Gunpowder before they were invaded, none of them had more than 3 musketmen. Without the Golden Age, I would have had too few cavalrists to send to the stronger, western continent.
* There was never a good time to hand build Forbidden Palace or flip palace, so I didn't. Even if a Great Leader had shown up (didn't get one) a second core during those last 30 turns when a Great Leader COULD have shown up would have had little effect.
* I only met one knight and that poor fellow was fortified in an Egyptian town. I also saw only one Arabian UU, who lost against my fortified cavalry.
I'm also happy with how I handled the smaller details like micro-management, pop-rushing and strategic resource access. The only mistake here seems to be not starting to build horsemen in the quickly conquered Persia before salpeter was connected again. Perhaps a simultaneous attack of Rome and Arabia would have been possible if I had built up a new force in Persia and Carthage. Perfect building orders and caravel moves could perhaps have speeded up the conquest of the south too. But the problem with the western continent was that many towns remained in resistance, so there was no possibility to hurry horsemen in those cities. I'd be genuinly astounded if anyone beats my conquest date by more than 10-15 turns. (If you did: gloat.)
---Detailed timeline---
AAGoing for Conquest victory.
---SUMMARY---
Finally! A truly isolated starting location! The map was really clever and I realize I've been waiting for a map like this for as long as I've played GOTM. This is also my best GOTM to date, regardless of what stupendous results others may have pulled off.
I can recall one major mistake: researching Monarchy. The reason I did it was mainly that I overestimated the AI research capability (thinking they would do both construction and currency for me in the meantime), but also I was not sure about which victory condition to pursue at this time. Secondly, I may have had too few towns in the early Ancient Age - building more settlers with not only the capital is something I need to work on.
---Exploration and contacts---
Having the Great Lighthouse made it a lot easier to make contact. As I passed the one tile Barbarian Isles I was as much concerned about being sinked by barb galleys as sinking, since there were no sea tiles around those isles. This was probably ainwood's intention too. In the end I don't think I lost a single galley on treacherous waters; three ships crossed safely over to Persia.
I met Persia in 775 BC and soon afterwards Zulu on the other continent. The first galley that made it over was later on the receiving end of a total of 4 hoplites, 1 MI and one settler to claim the horses on the empty island I chose to call "Madagaskar."
---Key dates---
975 BC - The Lighthouse was completed and it enabled vast exploration.
775 BC - I made my first contact. This saved me the drudgery of having to research many basic techs like iron working and the wheel.
310 BC - Colossus was finished in Sparta. Sparta was my little baby from the start. It was an unexpected thing to build a wonder that I had previously used as a pre-build to another wonder.
430 AD - Did I really believe that I was going to attack someone with hoplites in order to start a Golden Age? I had tried for decades to make Zulu attack but to no avail. Then the Zulu archer almost got the better of my two hoplites, but was at last defeated.
470 AD - My first horseman was finally produced, and my Golden Age had barely started.
680 AD Up to this year I had only captured one town. During the next 30 turns I captured or razed 70 cities/towns, not counting the 2 flipped ones I had to retake or the two I got in a peace deal.
This is the best timed GOTM I've played:
* Just two turns before the end 4 rivals were still alive. On the penultimate turn, 3 were still alive on different continents. This shows that the troop deployments were reasonably well estimated in terms of numbers, time of invasion and agressiveness during the invasions.
* I didn't lose patience by starting to build units or barracks but had the integrity to build aqueducts, universities and even a few frowned-at colosseums, up until horsemen became available.
* The Golden Age allowed me to completely outrun the AI in research, and even though most AIs reached Gunpowder before they were invaded, none of them had more than 3 musketmen. Without the Golden Age, I would have had too few cavalrists to send to the stronger, western continent.
* There was never a good time to hand build Forbidden Palace or flip palace, so I didn't. Even if a Great Leader had shown up (didn't get one) a second core during those last 30 turns when a Great Leader COULD have shown up would have had little effect.
* I only met one knight and that poor fellow was fortified in an Egyptian town. I also saw only one Arabian UU, who lost against my fortified cavalry.
I'm also happy with how I handled the smaller details like micro-management, pop-rushing and strategic resource access. The only mistake here seems to be not starting to build horsemen in the quickly conquered Persia before salpeter was connected again. Perhaps a simultaneous attack of Rome and Arabia would have been possible if I had built up a new force in Persia and Carthage. Perfect building orders and caravel moves could perhaps have speeded up the conquest of the south too. But the problem with the western continent was that many towns remained in resistance, so there was no possibility to hurry horsemen in those cities. I'd be genuinly astounded if anyone beats my conquest date by more than 10-15 turns. (If you did: gloat.)
---Detailed timeline---
Spoiler :
After the much too late MA in 130AD, I just slowly worked towards domination.
I researched navigation in 440AD and started on egypt to secure horses.
One of my two hoplites started GA in 580AD in this war.
Then researched to military tradition (680AD) and stopped research.
Palace jumped into Thebes in 720AD.
Destroyed Zulu (Shaka sneak attacked in 700AD
) in 870AD, Egyptians in 900AD and Babylonians in 920AD.
Then everything into Persia and domination in 1060AD.
I researched navigation in 440AD and started on egypt to secure horses.
One of my two hoplites started GA in 580AD in this war.
Then researched to military tradition (680AD) and stopped research.
Palace jumped into Thebes in 720AD.
Destroyed Zulu (Shaka sneak attacked in 700AD
) in 870AD, Egyptians in 900AD and Babylonians in 920AD.Then everything into Persia and domination in 1060AD.
MiniMe
For Glory
Entered MA in 270BC. I got Monotheism as free tech.
Discover Theology in 110BC. Trade for Feudalism with Persia.
Education discovered in 50AD.
Astronomy discovered in 230AD.
Navigation discovered in 330AD.
I send out my first caravels with hoplites and MI in 360AD towards persia.
In 420AD I finally make contact with last continent. I meet the Babylonians who quickly sell me their contacts. They are not yet in MA but will be shortly.
Golden age triggered in 470AD by hero hoplite surviving two immortal attacks and being promoted to elite.
I get my first leader in 610AD. He builds Forbidden Palace in Persepolis. After finished Persians I head for the the remains of Carthage. At the same time I cashrush horsemen in Persian cities and on home continent and prepare for invasion of babs. Just before finishing off persia I trade for chivalry and in subsequent turns upgrade my horsemen. I split my forces in 3. Some in direction of Arabs, some against Rome and the rest against Babylon.
The figure below should illustrate my taking over the world. Domination achieved in 940AD. It is funny that victory should come so late. I guess there were 2 main reasons why things went so slowly:
1. Contacts came late. My galleys must have had some sort of self detenator, when leaving my coasts they instantly blew up and hit the bottom of the ocean. I really had problems finding some contacts. I had to self research a lot more than I usually do.
2. No horses in reach. So I had to start war with MI and they are slow. Took time to build anything on low production home islands.
Discover Theology in 110BC. Trade for Feudalism with Persia.
Education discovered in 50AD.
Astronomy discovered in 230AD.
Navigation discovered in 330AD.
I send out my first caravels with hoplites and MI in 360AD towards persia.
In 420AD I finally make contact with last continent. I meet the Babylonians who quickly sell me their contacts. They are not yet in MA but will be shortly.
Golden age triggered in 470AD by hero hoplite surviving two immortal attacks and being promoted to elite.
I get my first leader in 610AD. He builds Forbidden Palace in Persepolis. After finished Persians I head for the the remains of Carthage. At the same time I cashrush horsemen in Persian cities and on home continent and prepare for invasion of babs. Just before finishing off persia I trade for chivalry and in subsequent turns upgrade my horsemen. I split my forces in 3. Some in direction of Arabs, some against Rome and the rest against Babylon.
The figure below should illustrate my taking over the world. Domination achieved in 940AD. It is funny that victory should come so late. I guess there were 2 main reasons why things went so slowly:
1. Contacts came late. My galleys must have had some sort of self detenator, when leaving my coasts they instantly blew up and hit the bottom of the ocean. I really had problems finding some contacts. I had to self research a lot more than I usually do.
2. No horses in reach. So I had to start war with MI and they are slow. Took time to build anything on low production home islands.
- OpenVery slow AA ending in 290AD. My MA extended to 1230AD. I had very little help with research, only engineering, gunpower, and chivalry were traded for.
290 AD Currency; Feudalism
380 AD Monotheism
460 AD Monarchy; Engineering
470 AD Theology
550 AD Education
630 AD Invention
690 AD Music Theory
770 AD Astronomy
840 AD Banking
870 AD Gunpowder
900 AD Economics
950 AD Navigation
1000 AD Chemistry
1050 AD Chivalry; Metallurgy
1100 AD Physics
1140 AD Military Tradition
1190 AD Magnetism
1230 AD Theory of Gravity; Steam Power
I finally contacted the second continent in 410AD. Trading for all contacts & maps after finding the Zulu. I went ahead and traded my maps and contacts to maximize my income.
The only wars during MA was a phony war with Persia as the were kind enough to declare on me after a refused demand. I allied his neighbors against him and left pot to boil.
I established a foothold in the jungles with the Zulu, getting dyes and preparing for some overdue expansion. I had twice the culture of the Zulus and generally more than everyone expect the Babs.
I built the GLH in the AA. In the MA, I built Leo's, Magellan's, and Smith's. I had marketplaces and libraries in my productive cities. I had a couple banks and universities finished or underway, as well, and was building Copernicus in Athens.
I sort of took a middle road between preparing for expansion and building infrastucture. I had half my productive cities doing improvement and the rest plus the corrupt ones building ships and knights. As you can see my research was also not focused. Something about these recent challenging starts has caught me out. My peaceful building skills, if I ever had any, seem to have atrophied. Well, I am sure COTM10 will give me more opportunity for practice.
My world at the end of the MA:
eldar
ChiefTank
PtW Open
AA summary: Entered in 210AD, met Zulu/Egypt/Babylon continent, Babs got the same free tech as me (Monotheism). Built Colossus, GLH in Athens. Colonised all nearby islands.
On to the Middle Ages.
My primary research goal was Navigation. Without Horses, Military Tradition could wait. So I researched Feudalism first, then Chivalry (to make sure Knights would be immediately available once Horses got connected), then across the top path to Navigation.
Quite when I discovered Navigation, I singularly forgot to note (unlike all the other MA techs). I do know my timing was out; instead of having my strike force parked in an ocean square the turn before, ready to invade, I waited a few turns.
The only thing of note was completion of the Hanging Gardens in Athens in 350AD. I'd been trying to build the GL, but the Zulus got there first. HG was more useful as it helped keep the Lux tax down. Think I'd have preferred 10 more Swords/MedInfs/Galleys, though....
I declared war on Egypt, pulling the Babs and Zulu into the fray, in 730AD. My invasion force consisted of 11 MedInfs, and a Settler. In 740AD, I razed Alexandria, replaced it with Rhodes, and went on my merry way. By 770AD, I'd secured both of Egypts luxuries (Incense and Silks), and had rushed a Harbor in Rhodes, connecting Horses. I started cranking out Knights; meanwhile, research was heading towards MT.
In 820AD, I established contact with the Persian continent. Persia had been on a bit of a rampage before we'd met, having gobbled up most of Rome, and a good chunk of Carthage. Only the Arabs were untouched, but they were the most backward of those Civs. I got Invention and Gunpowder from the Persians.
The Egyptians were finished off in 980AD, slow going of course due to only having footsoldiers for this first offensive. My first Knights were just landing, and heading for Babylon. During this war, I gained one sole promotion to Elite. I would've liked a leader, to allow me to jump my capital across to this continent.
After re-organization of forces (Babylon/Egypt had a long border), I declared on Babylon in 1020AD, clearing them off the continent - but not the map - by 1200AD. I still hadn't got any leaders.
In 1200AD, I completed research of Magnetism, and entered the IA, gaining Steam Power as my free tech.
I hadn't had my GA by then - I'd not built any Hoplites (I built one in the whole game, to suppress a sole Babylonian resistor after my forces had long since bugged out). I was building Newton's in Athens, which would take care of that (along with the much earlier Colossus), but an earlier GA might've helped a bit.
There was, of course, nothing I could've done about Persia. Even if I'd met them earlier, I couldn't have stopped them gaining such a strong position. A phony war with the other 3 as allies (after all, they'd done fine against 2...), would only have made them stronger - from the looks of the map, they had a very successful early campaign with Immortals, long before any chance I'd have had to influence things.
Still, I had the Zulu to take care of next, but it had all been routine stuff up until that point.
AA summary: Entered in 210AD, met Zulu/Egypt/Babylon continent, Babs got the same free tech as me (Monotheism). Built Colossus, GLH in Athens. Colonised all nearby islands.
On to the Middle Ages.
My primary research goal was Navigation. Without Horses, Military Tradition could wait. So I researched Feudalism first, then Chivalry (to make sure Knights would be immediately available once Horses got connected), then across the top path to Navigation.
Quite when I discovered Navigation, I singularly forgot to note (unlike all the other MA techs). I do know my timing was out; instead of having my strike force parked in an ocean square the turn before, ready to invade, I waited a few turns.
The only thing of note was completion of the Hanging Gardens in Athens in 350AD. I'd been trying to build the GL, but the Zulus got there first. HG was more useful as it helped keep the Lux tax down. Think I'd have preferred 10 more Swords/MedInfs/Galleys, though....
I declared war on Egypt, pulling the Babs and Zulu into the fray, in 730AD. My invasion force consisted of 11 MedInfs, and a Settler. In 740AD, I razed Alexandria, replaced it with Rhodes, and went on my merry way. By 770AD, I'd secured both of Egypts luxuries (Incense and Silks), and had rushed a Harbor in Rhodes, connecting Horses. I started cranking out Knights; meanwhile, research was heading towards MT.
In 820AD, I established contact with the Persian continent. Persia had been on a bit of a rampage before we'd met, having gobbled up most of Rome, and a good chunk of Carthage. Only the Arabs were untouched, but they were the most backward of those Civs. I got Invention and Gunpowder from the Persians.
The Egyptians were finished off in 980AD, slow going of course due to only having footsoldiers for this first offensive. My first Knights were just landing, and heading for Babylon. During this war, I gained one sole promotion to Elite. I would've liked a leader, to allow me to jump my capital across to this continent.
After re-organization of forces (Babylon/Egypt had a long border), I declared on Babylon in 1020AD, clearing them off the continent - but not the map - by 1200AD. I still hadn't got any leaders.
In 1200AD, I completed research of Magnetism, and entered the IA, gaining Steam Power as my free tech.
I hadn't had my GA by then - I'd not built any Hoplites (I built one in the whole game, to suppress a sole Babylonian resistor after my forces had long since bugged out). I was building Newton's in Athens, which would take care of that (along with the much earlier Colossus), but an earlier GA might've helped a bit.
There was, of course, nothing I could've done about Persia. Even if I'd met them earlier, I couldn't have stopped them gaining such a strong position. A phony war with the other 3 as allies (after all, they'd done fine against 2...), would only have made them stronger - from the looks of the map, they had a very successful early campaign with Immortals, long before any chance I'd have had to influence things.
Still, I had the Zulu to take care of next, but it had all been routine stuff up until that point.
Thanks.Gato Loco said:3 middle age wonders? On that island?Did you get lucky with the GLs's
No real wars. So no GLs'. I didn't meantion it in this thread, but I also had the FP early in the MA, so that helped. You might say they came at the expense of slow advancement through the ages.
The AIs were hopelessly backward so there was no real competition. If you are going to play into the modern era then Leo's and Smith's are the ones to get. GLH and then Magellan's on that map don't hurt either.
eldar
ChiefTank
I have to say, I was impressed with the Persians in my game. By the time I met them, they'd sliced Carthage in two and reduced Rome to two tundra cities. The Rome stuff was recent - all the cities were undeveloped - but their Carthaginian holdings were fully grown.
All that on better territory than I had available, and they were (almost) matching me in Techs, until I jumped my Palace to the ex-Zulu/Egypt/Babylon continent.
Anyway, more about all that in the next spoiler
All that on better territory than I had available, and they were (almost) matching me in Techs, until I jumped my Palace to the ex-Zulu/Egypt/Babylon continent.
Anyway, more about all that in the next spoiler
I'll be reading with interest to see if the mighty Persians can help you with the tech pace, which would be a rare thing on this level.eldar said:I have to say, I was impressed with the Persians in my game. By the time I met them, they'd sliced Carthage in two and reduced Rome to two tundra cities. The Rome stuff was recent - all the cities were undeveloped - but their Carthaginian holdings were fully grown.
All that on better territory than I had available, and they were (almost) matching me in Techs, until I jumped my Palace to the ex-Zulu/Egypt/Babylon continent.
Anyway, more about all that in the next spoiler
MOTH
Emperor
open class going for diplomatic victory.Recap of Suicide Galleys:
1st successful found the Persians and was lost on the interturn. The Persians were stubborn with trading and I tried renegging peace to get them to give anything up. It didn't work and I was at war with the Persians for quite some time. When I finally did get contacts I bought in everyone for MAs vs the Persians. I think the Persians lost 2 cities to the Arabs during this time which they eventually got back. When I noticed that the Romans and Carthegianians were about to be eliminated I gifted each a city on one of the side islands. Their continental holdings were captured by the Persians within 2 turns of my offer of Asylum.
2nd and 3rd successful galleys found the Egyptians. The Egyptians were just out of a nasty war with Babylon and were down to 3 cities. A perfect target. They were quickly captured, but there was a settler somewhere. I got peace and the last city was founded on the interturn. 22 turns later it was mine as well.
I had good luck ship chaining with the Lighthouse helping out a bit. I was also bee lining towards Navigation. I was able to ship several settlers who were all joined to an Egyption city. I flipped my Palace to there. This city was on the isthmus in the North of the southern continent. I still didn't have horses, so I settled aggressively and rushed culture and the horses were mine and I started building Knights.
1st Babylon war: Knights and MI arranged to take on Babylon during the middle to end of my Middle Ages. I captured about half of the Babylon cities before war weariness was a little too big.
I got peace and shortly entered the Industrial Age about half an age ahead of the nearest AI. I had no optional MA techs except Navigation at this point as the AI had not yet researched any.
Plan for remainder of game:
High Speed research. Time building of ToE for entry into Modern Age. Time Palace pre-build for UN upon entering Modern Age.
Eliminate one of the only 2 nations that hate me: Babylon. I will do this as soon as I have some tanks.
End Game Vote expectations without manipulating the vote:
Greece vs Persia.
Persia votes for Persia
Greece votes for Greece
Zulu votes for ???
Arabia votes for Greece
Rome votes for Greece
Carthage votes for Greece
Egypt and Babylon are dead.
eldar
ChiefTank
Megalou said:
I wasn't interested in tech pace, but they sure as hell made a difference to my win date!
Going for Diplomacy victory.
Early MA I heavyly invested in researching the gunpowder path, because Persia and Egypt, the only ones ahead of me, took the other path.
As soon as I gained a tech, I would sell it to all civs at once. If I couldn't get another tech, I would make them pay per turn.
By late MA even Persia couldn't offer me any techs, because I killed it's economy by making it pay me per turn for tech trades. My research was set at 80-90% during this time, making me an unstoppable sci machine.
By late MA, all civs were very happy at this point, because even if they couldn't offer me anything for techs I'd give away older techs to keep them in the game.
Due to getting so much money per turn for tech trades, I was able to quickly do hurry builds on all of the cities that couldn't really produce anything, which was everything except for my main 3 cities.
Oh, I had no wars or anything, because I keep everyone happy and didn't make any pacts.
Early MA I heavyly invested in researching the gunpowder path, because Persia and Egypt, the only ones ahead of me, took the other path.
As soon as I gained a tech, I would sell it to all civs at once. If I couldn't get another tech, I would make them pay per turn.
By late MA even Persia couldn't offer me any techs, because I killed it's economy by making it pay me per turn for tech trades. My research was set at 80-90% during this time, making me an unstoppable sci machine.
By late MA, all civs were very happy at this point, because even if they couldn't offer me anything for techs I'd give away older techs to keep them in the game.
Due to getting so much money per turn for tech trades, I was able to quickly do hurry builds on all of the cities that couldn't really produce anything, which was everything except for my main 3 cities.
Oh, I had no wars or anything, because I keep everyone happy and didn't make any pacts.
DBear
unbeliever
See Ancient Ages thread, post #2 for Ancient Age results.
Very late due to bad luck with galleys.
Cities founded:
680: Thessalonica--lost in 1130 to Persia.
760: Rhodes--lost in 1350 to Persia, who lost it to Rome.
1210: Eritrea on Iron island.
1315: Ngome--taken from Babylon.
1380: Elephantine--taken from Egypt for horses.
1385: Marathon on south island for iron and saltpeter.
Techs:
650: Mono, Feud, Eng (GLib)
710: Invention (GLib)
860: Guns (GLib)
870: Chiv (GLib)
1020: Chem, Theo (GLib)
1130: Metal (GLib)
1140: PP (learn)
1170: Ed (GLib)
1240: Mil Trad (learn)
1275: Astro (learn)
1295: Nav (learn)
1340: Demo (learn)
1360: Free Art (learn)
1380: Econ (learn)
1415: Physics (learn)
1450: Grav (learn)
1480: Magnets (learn)
Contacts:
840: Egypt, Zulu, Babylon
Wars:
1120-1470: Persia
1270-1325: Babylon
1375-1380: Egypt
eliminations:
1310: Zulu by Babylon
1380: Egypt by Greece
(Babylon left them as one city)
Wonders:
1060: Thermopylae builds Sistine
1090: Plebos Nexia builds FP
1405: Thermopylae builds Magellan
1415: Athens builds Shakespeare
Culture stats:
nation: city:
Greece 13665 +182 Athens 2354 +29
Arabia 9269 +91 Sparta 1576 +24
Persia 7425 +91 Thermo 1475 +22
Babylon 5352 +91 Corinth 1266 +15
Carthage 4304 +22 Pharsalos 975 +12
Rome 2414 +23 Knossos 923 +12
....................... Argos 917 +12
....................... Plebos N 772 +12
Very late due to bad luck with galleys.
Cities founded:
680: Thessalonica--lost in 1130 to Persia.
760: Rhodes--lost in 1350 to Persia, who lost it to Rome.
1210: Eritrea on Iron island.
1315: Ngome--taken from Babylon.
1380: Elephantine--taken from Egypt for horses.
1385: Marathon on south island for iron and saltpeter.
Techs:
650: Mono, Feud, Eng (GLib)
710: Invention (GLib)
860: Guns (GLib)
870: Chiv (GLib)
1020: Chem, Theo (GLib)
1130: Metal (GLib)
1140: PP (learn)
1170: Ed (GLib)
1240: Mil Trad (learn)
1275: Astro (learn)
1295: Nav (learn)
1340: Demo (learn)
1360: Free Art (learn)
1380: Econ (learn)
1415: Physics (learn)
1450: Grav (learn)
1480: Magnets (learn)
Contacts:
840: Egypt, Zulu, Babylon
Wars:
1120-1470: Persia
1270-1325: Babylon
1375-1380: Egypt
eliminations:
1310: Zulu by Babylon
1380: Egypt by Greece
(Babylon left them as one city)
Wonders:
1060: Thermopylae builds Sistine
1090: Plebos Nexia builds FP
1405: Thermopylae builds Magellan
1415: Athens builds Shakespeare
Culture stats:
nation: city:
Greece 13665 +182 Athens 2354 +29
Arabia 9269 +91 Sparta 1576 +24
Persia 7425 +91 Thermo 1475 +22
Babylon 5352 +91 Corinth 1266 +15
Carthage 4304 +22 Pharsalos 975 +12
Rome 2414 +23 Knossos 923 +12
....................... Argos 917 +12
....................... Plebos N 772 +12
Nata
Warlord
PTW Open, going for 20K.
AA spoiler here.
290AD. Built Hanging Gardens (switching from Palace prebuild). Meet Persia on another Continent. Trade for all contacts, all WMs and remaining AA techs. Enter MA and get Feudalism. Revolt to Republic after 3 turns of Anarchy.
570 AD. Building Sistine Chapel. Zulu declared on us, I brought in Egypt and Babylon into an alliance vs.Zulu, preparing MI for galley-chaining and taking some Zulu ground.
660AD. Take Zulu city with Dyes. Defending Hoplite starts a GA.
680AD. Take Zulu city with Incense, make peace with them. They almost destroyed Egypt and are running strong.
720AD. Built Sistine.
840AD. Built Copernicus
860AD. Built University. 41 cpt. Building J.Bach.
970AD. Declare on Zulu with 10 MI. Want to take their Horses and former Egypt land.
1050AD. Peace with Zulu. Took 2 more of their cities, now will expand inland.
1140AD. Persians beat us to J.Bach, so built Smith's instead.
1340AD. Built Shakespear's Theater. 4446 c./58cpt.
1355AD. Enter IA. Got Steam Power. So did Persians and Carthage. And so, incrediously, did Babs, after I gifted them to IA. Steam Power is the best of all, but still it's a bummer.
Going back to discussion with Abegweit in AA spoiler thread: after submitting this game I tried to replay Abegweit's opening with making Athens 20K city and concentrating on it from the beginning, and by 980AD I had 5292 culture/67 per turn with only Copernicus built out of MA Wonders.
This opening was so much stronger, but in MA it started to slow down as 30+ turns was needed for big MA wonders, and GL farming would have to commence. I'm very looking forward to Abegweit's spoilers.
Attached is my world in 290AD, at the beginning of MA, and minimap at 1345AD, 2 turns before IA.
AA spoiler here.
290AD. Built Hanging Gardens (switching from Palace prebuild). Meet Persia on another Continent. Trade for all contacts, all WMs and remaining AA techs. Enter MA and get Feudalism. Revolt to Republic after 3 turns of Anarchy.
570 AD. Building Sistine Chapel. Zulu declared on us, I brought in Egypt and Babylon into an alliance vs.Zulu, preparing MI for galley-chaining and taking some Zulu ground.
660AD. Take Zulu city with Dyes. Defending Hoplite starts a GA.
680AD. Take Zulu city with Incense, make peace with them. They almost destroyed Egypt and are running strong.
720AD. Built Sistine.
840AD. Built Copernicus
860AD. Built University. 41 cpt. Building J.Bach.
970AD. Declare on Zulu with 10 MI. Want to take their Horses and former Egypt land.
1050AD. Peace with Zulu. Took 2 more of their cities, now will expand inland.
1140AD. Persians beat us to J.Bach, so built Smith's instead.
1340AD. Built Shakespear's Theater. 4446 c./58cpt.
1355AD. Enter IA. Got Steam Power. So did Persians and Carthage. And so, incrediously, did Babs, after I gifted them to IA. Steam Power is the best of all, but still it's a bummer.
Going back to discussion with Abegweit in AA spoiler thread: after submitting this game I tried to replay Abegweit's opening with making Athens 20K city and concentrating on it from the beginning, and by 980AD I had 5292 culture/67 per turn with only Copernicus built out of MA Wonders.
This opening was so much stronger, but in MA it started to slow down as 30+ turns was needed for big MA wonders, and GL farming would have to commence. I'm very looking forward to Abegweit's spoilers.
Attached is my world in 290AD, at the beginning of MA, and minimap at 1345AD, 2 turns before IA.
Attachments
Gato Loco
Open to Interpretation
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2004
- Messages
- 347
PTW OPen, going for spaceship or diplomacy
Part 5 The long way Round (If only that galley had asked for directions)
After entering the middle ages in 110 BC, the game became much more uneventful. The Lucky Galley sailed around the newly-discovered continent, searching for more neighbors but finding nothing. Meanwhile the home archipelago put out a few more settlers and galleys. The settlers colonized the distant island to the east, while the galleys made futile attempts to find the missing continent. I finally sighted the coast to the south but was unable to reach it before the galley sunk. O to be a seafaring civ in Conquests At last, Odysseus the Lucky finished his trip around the barbarian continent and finally discovered a safe route to reach the mystery continent, meeting the Zulus in 370 AD and discovering how pathetically backward this new continent was. Of course I had to invade
Part 6 With one hand behind my back (How bad does the Regent AI stink?)
Having discovered a continent still mired in the ancient age, I immediately decided that this place would be my new core. Sparta had long since finished the FP, so it was just a matter of taking some cities and moving the palace. Simple, right? Of course there was no safe route from Greece to Barbarian-land, which complicated things a bit. Ship-chaining could work, but with a 50% chance of losing ships, the numbers werent on my side. I was, however, the undisputed tech leader, so I solved the problem by burning through the tech tree directly to navigation.
Now, normally I like to make detailed maps of my conquests, but this time it just isnt worth it. I understand that this game had to be on a low level to compensate for the island start, but Regent much more than compensates for the island. Consider the situation for a moment. The home island is very good for trade, given all those ocean squares. However, the shield production leaves much to be desired. There are enough shields for one city at a time to be producing core-level production. One city. And actually half of those shields were allocated to a city that was pre-building Newtons College, a pre-build which took most of the MA to complete. So I had half a core city and a bunch of junk cities worth of production, plus a couple turns at sea before my troops reached the battlefield. In fact, I ended up getting much of my army by rush-building troops in captured cities. Under these circumstances I declared war on Egypt in 740 AD with a handful of medieval infantry that I happened to have laying around. Most of these were upgraded military police from before there was even a Greek word for Barracks. I captured two cities right off the bat from naval invasions, then stalled for a few turns waiting for reinforcements. I finished Newton in 800BC and got a golden age. However, Egypt got their golden age too in 870BC when a war chariot got lucky. Meanwhile my army sat tight in their two captured cities, rush-building reinforcements and waiting for the transports to come back. In all this time Egypt failed utterly to mount a credible counter-offensive against this puny band of Greeces finest, most of whom were regulars who had begun their careers holding stone axes and scaring unhappy citizens. IN 880 BC I had finally gotten enough troops to begin advancing. I probably could have continued the offensive earlier had I not overestimated Egypts military prowess. Three cities fell in the space of 50 years, and the remaining two were protected not by Egyptian spearmen but merely by the distance my soldiers had to walk to reach them. I entered the industrial age in 960 AD, with Egypt (and Babylon and Zululand) still in the ancient age.
Part 7 Spaceships arent made out of fish, you know. (In which I consider victory conditions)
At the dawn of the Industrial Age, I begin to worry about victory. Playing a good builder civ on an isolated continent, I was hoping for a spaceship victory, as its been a while since Ive done one. However, the horrible shield production on the island makes that impossible unless I move my capital to a captured Egyptian city. At 1000 shields, this absolutely requires a GL. No Egyptian city can produce enough uncorrupted shields to manage otherwise. This is still a viable option, as I plan to conquer everyone on that continent and may get a GL. But I may not. In that case, I plan to try for a diplomatic victory, as that needs only one wonder and a lot of goodwill. Both victory conditions call for fast research, so Im set either way if I just keep burning up the tech tree at this pace. And in the meantime, knocking off a bunch of third-rate AIs will at least run up my score.
A minimap showing major middle age events:
Part 5 The long way Round (If only that galley had asked for directions)
After entering the middle ages in 110 BC, the game became much more uneventful. The Lucky Galley sailed around the newly-discovered continent, searching for more neighbors but finding nothing. Meanwhile the home archipelago put out a few more settlers and galleys. The settlers colonized the distant island to the east, while the galleys made futile attempts to find the missing continent. I finally sighted the coast to the south but was unable to reach it before the galley sunk. O to be a seafaring civ in Conquests At last, Odysseus the Lucky finished his trip around the barbarian continent and finally discovered a safe route to reach the mystery continent, meeting the Zulus in 370 AD and discovering how pathetically backward this new continent was. Of course I had to invade
Part 6 With one hand behind my back (How bad does the Regent AI stink?)
Having discovered a continent still mired in the ancient age, I immediately decided that this place would be my new core. Sparta had long since finished the FP, so it was just a matter of taking some cities and moving the palace. Simple, right? Of course there was no safe route from Greece to Barbarian-land, which complicated things a bit. Ship-chaining could work, but with a 50% chance of losing ships, the numbers werent on my side. I was, however, the undisputed tech leader, so I solved the problem by burning through the tech tree directly to navigation.
Now, normally I like to make detailed maps of my conquests, but this time it just isnt worth it. I understand that this game had to be on a low level to compensate for the island start, but Regent much more than compensates for the island. Consider the situation for a moment. The home island is very good for trade, given all those ocean squares. However, the shield production leaves much to be desired. There are enough shields for one city at a time to be producing core-level production. One city. And actually half of those shields were allocated to a city that was pre-building Newtons College, a pre-build which took most of the MA to complete. So I had half a core city and a bunch of junk cities worth of production, plus a couple turns at sea before my troops reached the battlefield. In fact, I ended up getting much of my army by rush-building troops in captured cities. Under these circumstances I declared war on Egypt in 740 AD with a handful of medieval infantry that I happened to have laying around. Most of these were upgraded military police from before there was even a Greek word for Barracks. I captured two cities right off the bat from naval invasions, then stalled for a few turns waiting for reinforcements. I finished Newton in 800BC and got a golden age. However, Egypt got their golden age too in 870BC when a war chariot got lucky. Meanwhile my army sat tight in their two captured cities, rush-building reinforcements and waiting for the transports to come back. In all this time Egypt failed utterly to mount a credible counter-offensive against this puny band of Greeces finest, most of whom were regulars who had begun their careers holding stone axes and scaring unhappy citizens. IN 880 BC I had finally gotten enough troops to begin advancing. I probably could have continued the offensive earlier had I not overestimated Egypts military prowess. Three cities fell in the space of 50 years, and the remaining two were protected not by Egyptian spearmen but merely by the distance my soldiers had to walk to reach them. I entered the industrial age in 960 AD, with Egypt (and Babylon and Zululand) still in the ancient age.
Part 7 Spaceships arent made out of fish, you know. (In which I consider victory conditions)
At the dawn of the Industrial Age, I begin to worry about victory. Playing a good builder civ on an isolated continent, I was hoping for a spaceship victory, as its been a while since Ive done one. However, the horrible shield production on the island makes that impossible unless I move my capital to a captured Egyptian city. At 1000 shields, this absolutely requires a GL. No Egyptian city can produce enough uncorrupted shields to manage otherwise. This is still a viable option, as I plan to conquer everyone on that continent and may get a GL. But I may not. In that case, I plan to try for a diplomatic victory, as that needs only one wonder and a lot of goodwill. Both victory conditions call for fast research, so Im set either way if I just keep burning up the tech tree at this pace. And in the meantime, knocking off a bunch of third-rate AIs will at least run up my score.
A minimap showing major middle age events:
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Goal: 20K culture in Athens
I got off to a great start on my goal in the Ancient Era, snagging 5 wonders. In a sense, I did even better in the Middles Ages, since I got all of them except Sun Tzu's! Or rather would get it would be well into the Industrial Era before they were finished but even at the start of the new age, the only one I had any doubt at all about was Smith's. That problem was soon fixed
That's the good news.
The bad news is that I learned the real disadvantage of using your capital as your culture city. At least at this level, it's not the lack of a Palace pre-build I have never needed it but the lack of a Palace Jump Without a second core or a decent AI, the science rate on the long trek to Sanitation and Industrialization was horrible. I think I also made a mistake by researching too many optional techs Music Theory, Navigation and Military Tradition. Mil Trad and Navigation were pretty much essential but I probably should have left Music Theory to the AI. Such a gorgeous building, though.
As it was, I self-searched everything past Monotheism and Invention. I didn't gift the AI into the Industrial Ages either. At the time I was at war with Persia. I could have tried Babylon but I was in conquer-the-world mode at that point and did not want to see Nationalism and riflemen.
Athens builds in the Middle Ages:
170AD Coliseum
300AD Cathedral
620AD Sistine
670AD University
860AD Copernicus
1150AD JS Bach
6749 total culture + 75 CPT at this point. I entered the IA the following turn.
Wars
As I said in the previous thread, my plan was to keep the southerners backward and attack them, using their lands for a second core. I had been at war with Babylon forever, so in 770AD when I finally learned Navigation, I moved in. The war was short and sweet. I took all of their major cities, reducing them one off island and one in the tundra. This also netted me horses and my first couple of elite victories. In 970AD I gave them peace. Unfortunately Ur promptly flipped back a few rounds later. CRP MapStats said that the odds were 0.0-something-tiny percent
Not really important, I suppose. But it was annoying. Shouldn't there be a cutoff - a point at which almost zero truly is zero?
Near the end of this war, I started having second thoughts about my plan. Cleo had been a very good trading partner, giving me about 100 GPT. In fact, thanks to her (and to a lesser extent Caesar), I was running 100% science all through the entire era and still making money so I really didn't want to take her out. On top of that, Persia had declared war on me several centuries earlier. So I decided to turn the war machine around and headed west instead. I should have started there. This wasted time. Obviously a big mistake. Not only is it closer, Persia (and the continent as a whole) is a much better target than Babylon. Dumb. Really dumb. The error was clearly all about not thinking how circumstances change as things evolve. Very lazy.
To move on, in 1090, 18 units landed on X-Man's territory and I started to take some cities in the southeastern corner. My first target was Bactra, where X had built Sun Tzu's. Very nice! The problem was that I still only had horses and MDI. Since I taken so much time getting there, the Persians were defending with muskets. What's more, because of their wonder, nearly every soldier I ran up against was a vet. I made good progress against the smaller cities, but I was nearing the core and bigger firepower would be needed. Even knights would not be enough against veteran muskets in cities.
My First Leader
Seventy years later, just as I finished JS Bach's, I had my first leader. I wasn't really ready to build my FP I wanted to put that in Carthaginian lands so I sent him back to Athens. The following year I learned Metallurgy and entered the Industrial Era, learning Medicine. Obviously steam would have been better but at least it wasn't Nationalism. I next went back to finish off Mil Trad in order to take out the evil Persians.
Initially, I thought I would use the leader to rush Newton's. In the end, I decided to build Leo's instead. This might not have done much for my culture but it sure spruced up my military
I next moved a couple of settlers into central Persia, snagging saltpeter and horses. This meant that the home "continent" could continue to produce horses and then send them over to Persia for upgrading.
In 1220, I finally learned Military Tradition. It took a couple more turns to get my settlers in place but soon 18 horses were upgraded to cavalry and they started a reign of terror throughout the New World. The entire upgrade bill was duly charged to Queen Cleopatra. Thank you very much, ma'am. In retrospect it might have been better to build the FP instead of Leo's since a long leader drought followed. But that is a story for later.
The Initial Push into Persia
Here's a shot taken shortly after my landing in Persia. You can see the newly founded city of Eretria which has just captured the salt. In the bottom left is a rushed settler preparing to build a second city in the a corridor towards the horses. Near Eretria, a group of MDI is preparing for an assault on Pasgardae to claim them. There are also 16 horsemen in the picture anxiously waiting for the advanced strike force to bring them into the game. Note also the stats at the bottom. 100% science, 1179 gold + 45gpt. Cleo was very generous indeed!
I got off to a great start on my goal in the Ancient Era, snagging 5 wonders. In a sense, I did even better in the Middles Ages, since I got all of them except Sun Tzu's! Or rather would get it would be well into the Industrial Era before they were finished but even at the start of the new age, the only one I had any doubt at all about was Smith's. That problem was soon fixed
That's the good news.
The bad news is that I learned the real disadvantage of using your capital as your culture city. At least at this level, it's not the lack of a Palace pre-build I have never needed it but the lack of a Palace Jump
Without a second core or a decent AI, the science rate on the long trek to Sanitation and Industrialization was horrible. I think I also made a mistake by researching too many optional techs Music Theory, Navigation and Military Tradition. Mil Trad and Navigation were pretty much essential but I probably should have left Music Theory to the AI. Such a gorgeous building, though. As it was, I self-searched everything past Monotheism and Invention. I didn't gift the AI into the Industrial Ages either. At the time I was at war with Persia. I could have tried Babylon but I was in conquer-the-world mode at that point and did not want to see Nationalism and riflemen.
Athens builds in the Middle Ages:
170AD Coliseum
300AD Cathedral
620AD Sistine
670AD University
860AD Copernicus
1150AD JS Bach
6749 total culture + 75 CPT at this point. I entered the IA the following turn.
Wars
As I said in the previous thread, my plan was to keep the southerners backward and attack them, using their lands for a second core. I had been at war with Babylon forever, so in 770AD when I finally learned Navigation, I moved in. The war was short and sweet. I took all of their major cities, reducing them one off island and one in the tundra. This also netted me horses and my first couple of elite victories. In 970AD I gave them peace. Unfortunately Ur promptly flipped back a few rounds later. CRP MapStats said that the odds were 0.0-something-tiny percent
Not really important, I suppose. But it was annoying. Shouldn't there be a cutoff - a point at which almost zero truly is zero?Near the end of this war, I started having second thoughts about my plan. Cleo had been a very good trading partner, giving me about 100 GPT. In fact, thanks to her (and to a lesser extent Caesar), I was running 100% science all through the entire era and still making money so I really didn't want to take her out. On top of that, Persia had declared war on me several centuries earlier. So I decided to turn the war machine around and headed west instead. I should have started there. This wasted time. Obviously a big mistake. Not only is it closer, Persia (and the continent as a whole) is a much better target than Babylon. Dumb. Really dumb. The error was clearly all about not thinking how circumstances change as things evolve. Very lazy.
To move on, in 1090, 18 units landed on X-Man's territory and I started to take some cities in the southeastern corner. My first target was Bactra, where X had built Sun Tzu's. Very nice! The problem was that I still only had horses and MDI. Since I taken so much time getting there, the Persians were defending with muskets. What's more, because of their wonder, nearly every soldier I ran up against was a vet. I made good progress against the smaller cities, but I was nearing the core and bigger firepower would be needed. Even knights would not be enough against veteran muskets in cities.
My First Leader
Seventy years later, just as I finished JS Bach's, I had my first leader. I wasn't really ready to build my FP I wanted to put that in Carthaginian lands so I sent him back to Athens. The following year I learned Metallurgy and entered the Industrial Era, learning Medicine. Obviously steam would have been better but at least it wasn't Nationalism. I next went back to finish off Mil Trad in order to take out the evil Persians.
Initially, I thought I would use the leader to rush Newton's. In the end, I decided to build Leo's instead. This might not have done much for my culture but it sure spruced up my military
I next moved a couple of settlers into central Persia, snagging saltpeter and horses. This meant that the home "continent" could continue to produce horses and then send them over to Persia for upgrading.In 1220, I finally learned Military Tradition. It took a couple more turns to get my settlers in place but soon 18 horses were upgraded to cavalry and they started a reign of terror throughout the New World. The entire upgrade bill was duly charged to Queen Cleopatra. Thank you very much, ma'am. In retrospect it might have been better to build the FP instead of Leo's since a long leader drought followed. But that is a story for later.
The Initial Push into Persia
Here's a shot taken shortly after my landing in Persia. You can see the newly founded city of Eretria which has just captured the salt. In the bottom left is a rushed settler preparing to build a second city in the a corridor towards the horses. Near Eretria, a group of MDI is preparing for an assault on Pasgardae to claim them. There are also 16 horsemen in the picture anxiously waiting for the advanced strike force to bring them into the game. Note also the stats at the bottom. 100% science, 1179 gold + 45gpt. Cleo was very generous indeed!
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
Nata said:
As you can see, I produced similar results. It was indeed slow in the Middle Ages. As you say, 20 gpt is 30 turns. It got better later. Redbad quite correctly predicted that I would be making 78 gpt with a Hospital, Harbour, Factory and Coal Plant.
That's 8 turns for a 600 shield wonder. Not so bad. And, as you say, leader farming is part of the game. I haven't quite gotten to that stage yet. We'll see how it works out.One thing which was good about my MA is how many wonders I snagged (or rather kept snaggable). Keeping the AI at war helped in this regard. This was dumb luck. I hadn't thought at all about the consequences it would have for wonder snagitation. It just worked out.
MOTH
Emperor
Denniz said:
This looks like the maps available in CrpViewer. Its part of Dianthus' CrpSuite. It also lets you step through the entire game and you can see all the territory turn green.
