GOTM50 spoiler thread

Anything that can reveal the map or give a player undue advantage is not allowed, even in the spolier thread. It's one thing to talk about the Aztecs, but its another think to let people see where they are and what they have.

I have the saves saved and can repost them after the deadline.
 
Duke of Marlbrough said:
Anything that can reveal the map or give a player undue advantage is not allowed, even in the spolier thread. It's one thing to talk about the Aztecs, but its another think to let people see where they are and what they have.
I would hope everyone playing this game would know where the aztecs are!!! ;)
 
Peaster , I have to thank you.
I am a new Baby here, I post my last two games without knowing how the scoring works.
Well ..I could have reaped several points in games 48 and 49 by knowing a few tricks.
Game 50, After the last turn....I learned that having Settlers and armies floating around will do not good.Dismante the SOB's!!
Since I play Fundy...I never cared about happiness....BUT .I realized that building Temples and Colliseums will get me an extra point or so........desmanteling my armies and turn them into some " happy " stuff could do the difference...and it worked.
Before I conquered tha Chinese in GOTM 50, I turn all my armies into shields...then , Temples....Colliseums...etc. Sold the usless stuff from every city like City Walls , and Coastal Protection Walls...
REmember I play the game in the fundy mode....
Then...I got a hint from Peaster...the AI takes so many points per turn, so in other words, the longer you play ...the less points you can make...right ?????
Well, I do no know if I broke the " Da Vinci Code "..but I figure that mathemathically had to be a quotient issue...
IF ..( and only IF ) I can make more points per turn that I am loosing as I play....IF ..IF I can get avobe and beyond the quotient can I GET MORE POINTS as i go forwards ????
So I decided to play my theory.....restared before final conquest, when only is one Chinese City located where Korea is...and decided to play a few turns...
First of all I made peace with them..( 3 extra points per turn ) .and I have 5 spys in the next city..every turn I check on their advances..if they grow more than 3 I send a spy and " Posion the water supply "...That way I can suvbert the city whenever I want....

Could I have more points than the Equation ( GOTM= Square root of normal score x 50 then divided by the maximum turns..minus , then divided over the turns...or so...LOL ), I love math and I figure I could do that.....
I download the Excel file in the GOTM Web Page and use it every turn......and it was GOOD!!!!!
So here it is .....within 10 turns....I Increased my Population and points by 300 points...Achievements wont change 560..BUT Population....Future Technology..and peace will increase by the turn...

OK Year X- Population Points 64 Mill : Points 1990- AChievents 560 - Peace 3 - Future Tech 45..TOtal Points = 2558 Using the forementioned equation = My final score is 285

Now Ten Years Later- Population 94.Mil: Points 2282- Achivements 560 - Peace 30- Future Tech 90 ( Interesing ....some turns I have got 2 advances or 10 points extra) Peace 33 , Future Tech 95....Total score 2862..Using the equation now I have 300 Points !!!!

So I can get 15 extra points ( Not just 15 but increase my score ....by 15 ) per 10 turns ?? I wanna check this out...

I am gonna play this game another 40 turns or so.......and find If The mathematical parabol works.....

THis is exciting.....:)
 
OK...I played several turns and it becamed a nightmare.....why ??
All cities explode in population...therefore, sperhighways , recycling centers are needed, plus the polution issue, every turn you have pollution near the cities with population 18 +.
I am experimenting now ( just restarted the last turn ) , selling all my sewer systems, so I can keep all cities by or about 12 +.
That means that all cities will have a max of 12 ...14, no pollution.
Based on my old theory ....I sent maybe 50 settlers from my over populated cities in Europe and ASia to South America ( I have 4 airports in the Americas ) and have them all working in the Amazon basin....... but it did not work..pollution and overpopulation was an issue and the mathematical quotient at one point was really low....
So Maybe , playing the numbers against the AI is just good for 20 turns or so.....
I will keep you posted.....Maybe after 20 turns selling all the sewer systems to avoid over population and " Elvis " its the way to go ????
I am starting my post game( the one I finished after conquering the Chinese ..but I reload the last save before taking the last city... , and I will eliminate all sewer systems...and see what happens ), maybe I can have all of my 150 cities now with a population of 12....
George Bush and the Republicans will be so happy if they could control a Civilization like this.....LOL
I will keep you posted!!!!
 
OK..I Found it.
Yes , you can Increase you points by playing the extra turns..I posted HOW , the I realized WHY ???? so I edited the entire thing. In other words I deleted the info...

Yes it it is possible to increase you GOTM Points..

BY the way.. a great point about having FREE defensive units :
I built cities on the edge of my civ....using settlers , increasing them from 1 to 7 in on one turn...forgot to get a defensive unit ...( who is gonna atack me ??? ) , then the Barbarians pop up and sourround my city and demand 10.000 coins or so.....!!
Good , let them take the city !!!!!! ..... when the Barbarians take the city an x number of Partisans will be created by the AI , next turn send a spy and subvert the city...immediatly you will get 10 to 15 partisan units created nearby the city that are YOURS ( they belong to NONE city and need no city support ), you will have 10/15 extra units at no charge , and maintenece free !!
I did this with 5 cities...and now my entire army is made of Partisans that need no support.

:)
 
URUWASHI - That's a nice trick. But you don't really need an army anymore, do you? I suppose people get very high scores by celebrating with a lot of cities in a democracy, for fast growth. I don't know exactly how they handle happiness and pollution problems, but maybe the right combination of city improvements does it. If you don't want to figure it all out for yourself, you can probably DL some old GOTM saves and take a look at the ones with the highest scores. Anyway, good luck!
 
I finished about 10 years before the 1600 save requirement. Things went very fast once I got my celebrating fundy going. But I fear I dilly-dallied in the beginning and didn't get my colonies going soon enough. I had a lot of foreign trade and was researching Space Flight at the end. Howies Rule!

I started by assuming that history would be a guide and Columbus was very close to discovering us, so I built a dip and a trireme and bought Amiens (no shields, but I took Navigation). I also sent out 2 explorers to pop huts in the Americas, but I got tons of gold and almost no tribes or barbs. I sent a caravel detail to the Chinese, hoping for gunpowder, and they offered peace and traded a lot of techs. But I sent a freight and two elephants - and because I neglected to send a Settler with them, I made no colony in the Phillipines, Japan or Hawaii. That was a mistake which cost many turns at the end.

I bribed Cape Verde Islands for the tech advance, but that turned out to have more defensive value than offensive.

My conquest plan was to go after the underdeveloped Zulus (Zuli?) as soon as I could build some elephants, but the Zulus had gunpowder already and elephants wer of no avail, so the Zulu conquest had to wait for units with an attack value of 8. With the foreign trade, I got to Democracy and built the Statue by the 1540s, about the same time that the Ottomans got Fundy, so I was in real Fundy for a long time. By that time, everybody had city walls and railroad. I waited until my army of cavalry and cannons was at size 20 before trying to conquer Cairo. I lost a lot of units in Cairo, but after the Pyramids, everything started to roll. Bribing Partisns was really helpful.

Naval stuff turned out to be largely irrelevant except for the shipchain from Seattle to the Chinese, from which I got a ton of trade loot. I had many turns of 1 tech/turn. I used a battleship to terrorize the Black Sea, but most of the time it was in dry dock for repairs.

In the end, I rolled over all the last three civs in 2 turns each, using partisans and spies for ZoC issues and engineers to flash railroads where there were gaps.

I can't imagine doing this scenario the LaFayette way - without city bribing - I got in lots of trouble and had to buy my way out several times.

What a great GOTM!
 
Status at +1618 (125 turns)
Population: 36.47M; Cities: 46; Trade routes: 33D29F; Government: Democracy
Finance. Treasury: 291; Cost per turn: 571; Income: 1253; Tax rate: 40%
Science: Total advances: 84+13Future; Advance every 3 turns; Science rate: 20%
Production: 928MT; 1 polluted tiles
Wonders: Colossus, Marco, Copernicus, Adam Smith, Newton, Hoover, SETI, Apollo.
Units: 2 None settlers, 32 Engineers, 4 Archer, 8 Musketeer, 1 Fanatic, 1 Alpine, 4 Riflemen, 1 Horseman, 1 None Crusader, 1 Knight, 1 Dragoon, 1 Cavalry, 1 Armor, 1 Artillery, 1 Caravel, 1 Destroyer, 1 AEGIS, 3 Transport, 2 Diplomat, 2 Spy, 21 Freight.
Russian: No embassy; Sun Tzu, Lighthouse, Darwin, Statue of Liberty; War with Indians, Ottomans, and me.
Zulu: No embassy;
Spanish: No embassy; Michelangelo, Eiffel, Cure for Cancer; War with Ottomans and me.
Chinese: 17 cities, 83 tech, 1382g; Great Wall, Shakespeare, Leo;
Ottoman: 26 cities, 74 tech, 2871g; Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Great Library, King Richard, Bach, Suffrage, UN; Allied with Zulu, War with everyone else except Chinese.
Indian: 12 cities, 71 tech, 2119g; Magellan; Allied with me, war with Russians and Ottomans.

I built the Apollo in 1614. I had half a dozen cities precharged building various space ship parts and about 10 food caravans. The very next turn Chinese discovered Space flight and built 3 structurals at the same time! This really scared me. I was going to go for a full space ship, but I decided that is too risky. I opted for a space ship with full components (8 pairs) and only 2 (out of 4 possible) set of modules. (I picked 2 instead of 1 because 5 of the 6 needed modules were pretty close to being done.)

Chinese discovered Plastics in two turns, sooner than I expected, but built no new space ship parts meanwhile. This surprised me. What are they up to?

Another 2 turns and they discovered Superconductor as well. They had long ago stolen Fusion Power from me. Now they had all the techs needed for a space ship. But still no new parts. Why? They were not at war with anyone and they have plenty of large cities and cash. Meanwhile I was directing every last bit of effort towards the space ship, rush buying when possible.

Two turns after that a Chinese transport shows up on my west coast and deposits some Mechanical infantry and Alpine troops. We are still at peace, though no longer allies, and these are more defensive than offensive units. What is going on?

By 1622 I have a 32S,7.5C, 2M space ship that will arrive in 9 years. In 4 more turns I can make a full space ship. I am afraid the Chinese are waiting for me to launch and then quickly put together a faster ship. In that case I better wait for a full space ship and meanwhile get a carrier full of aircraft and a transport full of offensive units ready for a possible take over of their capital.

Meanwhile I better take some precautionary measures. I contacted the Chinese. Recycling -> Chinese (4) -> Cordial. Next on their list was Espionage and Stealth. I stopped gifting at this point. Unfortunately this was not enough to convince them to exchange maps or form an alliance. Space flight -> Indian (1) -> map exchange. Met with Russians. Rocketry, Combustion, Radio, Mobile Warfare, Machine tools -> Russian (3) -> peace. Hopefully they will use these to attack some Chinese cities to keep them occupied.

The anticipated sneak attack by Chinese finally comes in 1624! Their Bomber kills my Mech infantry defending Midway island. But they do not attack in America despite having at least a tank, an alpine, and a mech infantry there. Chinese transport parks next to Tlaxcala. Indians declare war on Chinese in my support. Chinese Armor in Baja California pruchased for 792g; it kills Chinese Alpine and becomes vet. Contacted Russians. They want both Superconductor and Nuclear Fission to attack Chinese. I gave it to them. Next contacted Ottomans and gave them Superconductor for cease fire. They want 7450g to declare war on the Chinese. Even if I had that much money I would not accept. They want me to declare war on my Indian allies for peace with them; I rejected. Superconductor -> Spanish (2) -> Cease fire. Stealth Bomber destroys Chinese transport.

During the next two turns both Ottomans and Indians join the space race by building a few structurals. In 1626 I finally launch my full space ship due to arrive in 1637.

Eventually, everyone joined the space race but nobody launched. Chinese resumed work on their space ship in 1630. War with the Chinese went on till near the end. But they never managed to capture any city of mine nor did they ever launch an all out assault. I did some military build up but stopped when realized that more is not necessary.

This game was extremely challenging, taxing, and exciting. It was only during the last 5 turns that I was sure I have won the game. Turns in 1600s were taking nearly 1 hour of real time.

Detailed log is attached.
 

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Congratulations Ali! I bet that was an exciting finish. It must be a little scary to think all your efforts might be wasted if the Chinese get there first. :goodjob:

I wrote the following lengthy note to Grigor before I noticed your post...


Grigor - Great game ! Sounds like you went through the tech tree faster than anybody and it paid off. I was pretty sure that approach was possible, but it's nice to see you did it. Did you use any of the very advanced tech (bombers? armor? missiles? etc)

I am not used to advanced govts, such as fundy, and didn't really consider celebrating... was that mainly for better delivery bonuses? But I always had enough gold, and usually had enough tech (or so I thought). Did you build SoL mainly to get to Fundy faster, or did you use it to switch govts a few times? BTW - could you explain the terms "real fundy" and "soft fundy"?

Getting Nav so early must have helped. You didn't mention which wonders you built (Mag's? MPE? STWA?).

"But I sent a freight and two elephants - and because I neglected to send a Settler with them, I made no colony in the Phillipines, Japan or Hawaii. That was a mistake which cost many turns at the end."

I made 4 colonies there, which was overkill. But you made a ship chain to China, for trade, so why did you still need a colony? If the ships were transports, I suppose one load would be enough to take a Chinese city easily. Probably better than colonies (unless making the chain was the problem...).

"I waited until my army of cavalry and cannons was at size 20 before trying to conquer Cairo. I lost a lot of units in Cairo, but after the Pyramids, everything started to roll. Bribing Partisns was really helpful. "

Did you have spies by then? They are great at taking down walls cheaply... roughly 2 spies per city was enough IIRC. Without walls, I doubt you'd need such a large army. Though I think I was using Artillery by the time I got to Cairo.

Just curious - was your growing army within sight of Cairo during the build-up? [I have an untested theory that the AI is smart enough to match an offensive build-up with a defensive build-up]. I don't recall bribing many partisans, but it sounds like a great idea; they were quite a nuisance in my game.

"Naval stuff turned out to be largely irrelevant ...." - Same for me.

"In the end, I rolled over all the last three civs in 2 turns each, using partisans and spies for ZoC issues and engineers to flash railroads where there were gaps. "

Well, that's pretty fast! I assume your main attacking unit was the howitzer at that point? Yeah, I guess those + engineers must have been pretty awesome.

"I can't imagine doing this scenario the LaFayette way - without city bribing - I got in lots of trouble and had to buy my way out several times."

IIRC - the two major AI civs in my game were Demo's, so I couldn't bribe them. You were lucky if you didn't face any Demo's !

Well, I would like to see a few of your saves, if you don't mind sending them by email. I am willing to give/get saves with anyone interested (of course, you have to submit your game to the GOTM staff first). Grigor, if you don't want to bother with sending the saves, could you provide some stats after 50 years and 80 years (see pages 1-3 of this thread) ?
 
Well done Grigor!

I must mention that I didn't play "no bribe" in this game.

(BTW "soft" fundy = fundy that you get through SoL)
 
Peaster, LaFayette - Thanks.

Ali - sounds like a classic Civ@ experience! It's too bad the Chinese didn't launch so that your patience with the larger ship could come into play.

Peaster: a detailed reply is deserved. I will be away for a week so here goes:

Did you use any of the very advanced tech (bombers? armor? missiles? etc)

I had 1 bomber. I used it to find and depopulate the last Russian city. I made a bunch of Armor, but they were not much fun against vet alpine units behind walls on a river. I used them for active defence and taking out Partisans. Once Mech Infantry came on line, I built a lot of them as primary defensive units. The Howitzer army was big at the end. No missiles

I am not used to advanced govts, such as fundy, and didn't really consider celebrating... was that mainly for better delivery bonuses? But I always had enough gold, and usually had enough tech (or so I thought).

The last Fundy game here at CFC was huge in teaching the worth of celebrating. Scouse Gits does it in Monarchy too, and its power is astonishing. It seems that Elvis is right - only a fool runs a civilization without luxuries. :) I kept Lux at 30 at first, and later at 40. Only the largest cities on the coast were celebrating, but those were the freight builders and it was enough.

Did you build SoL mainly to get to Fundy faster, or did you use it to switch govts a few times? BTW - could you explain the terms "real fundy" and "soft fundy"?

I built SoL to get to Fundy faster, but then received it from the Ottomans at the same time. Nevertheless, it caused only one turn of anarchy. I never switched again, though I think I should have gone to Demo for 5 turns to get all my home cities to size 12. LaFayette is right - soft fundy is getting the government through the SoL before you have discovered the actual tech - you get the happiness benefits but can't build fanatics. Fanatics were huge for me.

Getting Nav so early must have helped. You didn't mention which wonders you built (Mag's? MPE? STWA?).

Yes, Nav early was a good call, which I planned at the start. (For instance, I did not take Gunpowder from the Spanish at the first contact.) I was a little nervous for a few turns, but once I got to China everything worked out. I also turned science to zero until I reached the Chinese - the nearly full science box seemed more valuable than having Iron Working - I think that was perhaps the right strategy, but I did it for too long and built MPE too late for optimum results. In a second replay I would take Nav, switch science to zero, and build MPE right away, even delaying the Chinese freight caravel for a few turns.

I built MPE, Magellans, UN. I missed STWA, but by the time I needed it I had Mobile Warfare anyway. I built many barracks.

I made 4 colonies there, which was overkill. But you made a ship chain to China, for trade, so why did you still need a colony? If the ships were transports, I suppose one load would be enough to take a Chinese city easily. Probably better than colonies (unless making the chain was the problem...).

The shipchain was only partial until the end. My home cities were pumping out freights, so it took a long time to build Seattle, make a railroad, and make transports. A colony would have allowed an extra builder in the Chinese theater, which would have allowed conquest of the Chinese 10 years earlier. I had more than one transport worth of howitzers, and some of the space had to b used for freight.

Did you have spies by then? They are great at taking down walls cheaply... roughly 2 spies per city was enough IIRC. Without walls, I doubt you'd need such a large army. Though I think I was using Artillery by the time I got to Cairo.

I had neither spies nor artillery. I used Cavalry and Cannon, mostly vets. Cairo was on a river, with barracks and walls. I had already lost several engineers trying to flash the railroad over the river. In the end they only had 3 defenders, so I only used about 12 attackers, most of which requred R&R afterward. .

Just curious - was your growing army within sight of Cairo during the build-up? [I have an untested theory that the AI is smart enough to match an offensive build-up with a defensive build-up].

no, I was in a fortress 2 squares away in the blind zone.

I don't recall bribing many partisans, but it sounds like a great idea; they were quite a nuisance in my game.

Partisans are very useful because of the no ZoC flag. They defend as well as riflemen.

IIRC - the two major AI civs in my game were Demo's, so I couldn't bribe them. You were lucky if you didn't face any Demo's !

The Spanish were in Demo, but the others didn't have it.

Well, I would like to see a few of your saves, if you don't mind sending them by email. I am willing to give/get saves with anyone interested (of course, you have to submit your game to the GOTM staff first). Grigor, if you don't want to bother with sending the saves, could you provide some stats after 50 years and 80 years (see pages 1-3 of this thread) ?

I don't have time this morning and I am gone for this week, but if you are still interested I will send them next week.
 
Peaster said:
It must be a little scary to think all your efforts might be wasted if the Chinese get there first.
grigor said:
It's too bad the Chinese didn't launch so that your patience with the larger ship could come into play.
Chinese quick tech advances scared me. Their building of 3 space ship structurals the turn they got Space flight really frightened me. At that point I was only slightly ahead in the space race. But then, for some unknown reason to me, they started acting dumb. I have no idea why they paused their space ship building activity for over a decade. And their military assault was ridiculously weak. I had little military at the time; some of my cities were undefended and many others were defended by ancient units likes Archers and Musketeers. Their attack on the west coast was foiled when I bribed their Armor. I had 2 tiny island cities, Maui and Midway, closer to their land than mine. They did kill a few units there but never got close to taking those cities.

Maybe I am expecting too much of the King level AI. Maybe they would have acted differently at higher levels. Also, their quick tech advance had a lot to do with many freights I delivered to their larger cities. Of the 29 foreign routes I had in 1618 about 20 was with them (and the rest with Indians).

By the way, I am very impressed by all of your conquests, specially the real early ones. Grigor finished in less than 100 turns, Peaster and Lafayette took only slightly more time. Looking at Aztec's relative strength (weakest) I would have not thought such quick conquests possible.
 
Ali Ardavan said:
Grigor finished in less than 100 turns, Peaster and Lafayette took only slightly more time.
Peaster = 90 turns IIRC = IMO he is the winner of the green star for this great "FIFTY" game :goodjob:

(I managed 83 turns, but it was my third game :crazyeye: )
 
I am gonna try again, my last post as I tried to edit the post and " copy and Paste " some information that I had compiled in Word.. most of the post dissapeared..I was very frustrated...I guess it is not a smart thing to copy and paste !!
( How do you guys get the game logs ?? , I noticed tht Ali posted his log Word.document ..Ali how can I get one from my game ??? )
Again, its is possible to get some extra points, but I do not know if is a great advantage.
The trick is to balance population, income and turn the Science as high as possible to achieve more than a future tech every turn.
I kind of make it happen....( kind of , because again the point gain is minnimal )..had taxes at 0 , Happiness at 50% and Discoveries at 50%...but only is good for a few turns.
But then , the issue of pollution is a big one ..so Settlers are needed all over to clean the mess...Growth of cities gets out of hand...
If is not broke ...do not fix it!! ;-)
 
URUWASHI said:
How do you guys get the game logs ?? , I noticed tht Ali posted his log Word.document ..Ali how can I get one from my game?
I create the log by hand. Every turn I write down important events of that turn. Every so many turns I create a standard status such as the ones I have been posting to keep track of my progress. I wish it was automated.

URUWASHI said:
Again, its is possible to get some extra points, but I do not know if is a great advantage. The trick is to balance population, income and turn the Science as high as possible to achieve more than a future tech every turn. I kind of make it happen....( kind of , because again the point gain is minnimal )..had taxes at 0 , Happiness at 50% and Discoveries at 50%...but only is good for a few turns. But then , the issue of pollution is a big one ..so Settlers are needed all over to clean the mess...Growth of cities gets out of hand...
As you said the trick is to balance population, income, ... The balance under an advanced peaceful civilization is different than that of a civilization at war. Transition between the two takes time. Setting the luxuries rate hight is a start but there is a lot more to it than that. For example, the way to deal with pollution is not to keep cleaning it up. But rather to build the infrastructure that prevents it from happening (Clean source of power, mass transit, recycling centers). There are also ways to deal with unhappiness. My older cities are mostly above size 20. The only limit to city size is food.
 
la fayette said:
Peaster = 90 turns IIRC = IMO he is the winner of the green star for this great "FIFTY" game :goodjob:

(I managed 83 turns, but it was my third game :crazyeye: )
I'm not so sure that is going to hold up. ;)
 
TimTheEnchanter said:
I'm not so sure that is going to hold up. ;)

May I rephrase?
"IMO Peaster is going to be the winner of the green star ... until Tim sends his own results" :cool:
 
I'm glad to see TheEnchanter is playing GOTMs again. Also, I'm happy to note that the GOTM50 spoiler thread is the most active one since GOTM 38 !!

@Grigor - Thanks for your clear answers. The main thing that surprised me was "Fanatics were huge for me". Why was that? Were you using them as cheap defensive units, to help with rush-buys, to solve support problems, or...? And yes, I am still interested in your saves - also from La Fayette, Tim, or any conquest players willing to share.

To answer my own question from a previous post, you can count your citizens (and therefore worked tiles) most easily from

Citizens = (50 * Citizen Score / Approval rating) - 1

See [corrected link]:

http://home.tiscali.cz:8080/~cz045662/civ2/statistic.htm
 
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