GOTM 41: First Spoiler

ainwood · Mar 20, 2005

GOTM 41 Spoiler 1: Entering the middle ages

This is the first spoiler for GOTM 41: Persia.

To qualify to participate in this spoiler, you must:

Be able to research a middle-age technology.
Have a full map of the starting continent.
have contacts with all civs on the starting continent.

Please do not post any screenshots that show any details of anything other than the starting continent (including galley routes etc).
Please do not discuss any other civilizations other than those on the starting continent.

In this game, you have a starting location that appears to have enough food to encourage swift growth, and you have a powerful early Unit Unit in the Immortals. How did you go about your early expansion? Did you prefer to expand peacefully simply through using a settler factory? Or did you choose the militaristic route? How did you strike the ideal balance?

Ronald · Mar 20, 2005

Open PTW

This time I wanted to get full use of the Persian UU, the Immortals, so I decided to go for a conquest victory.

As discussed in the pregame tread, settler SE gives a 4 turn settler factory. Since it requires a lot of forest work, my builds were warrior, worker, granary.
It took until 2630 BC to have the factory going.

Here is the development of my empire during the AA:

and here a view at the end of the QSC period:

The statistics for the QSC are:

12 cities
37 population
3 barracks
2 granaries
1 settler
6 workers
14 warriors
1 galley

I had Persepolis as my settler factory and pasargadea as my worker factory. The other cities have or will have barracks to build warriors for an upgrade to immortals.

I switched to Republic as soon as possible to research more quickly. My research path was pottery, writing, CoL, Philosophy, Republic, literature and currency. all other AA techs were traded.

The first target for war was Rome. Rome built the Pyramids very early, but a few turns after they were mine. I only encountered one legion, therefore rome was no match for my immortals.

At the end of the AA Rome had just one city left and this will fall in the next turn.

My free tech was monotheism which was wonderfull, it saves one tech for navigation.

Vic · Mar 20, 2005

My first experience on a GOTM game and my first experience on Monarch. I settled on the furs/forrest to the SE, which seemed kinda obvious, then built my second city to the south east and third to the north east
Immortals are the most obvious thing to go for so i grabbed iron working real quick. My first mistake was letting the romans get the iron to the east. :cry:

Instead i had to spend like 30 turns hacking a road to the north to get to that before Japan did. Any way i started pumping immortals, all the while expecting the monarch difficulty AI to laugh at my attempt at war, and was suprised at how easy it was. By the end of the ancient age I was just about to take rome from memory, and had about 25 immortals in the feild

.
The thing im interested in is city placement, any comments about this map would be cool

Oh and how do you insert pics??!?!?!

Grogs · Mar 20, 2005

GOTM 41
Player: Grogs
Class: Open
Version: PTW 1.27f

Goal: 20k Victory (my first ever)

I tripped so many times coming out of the starting gate on this one, it's a wonder I made it through the AA at all. I founded Persepolis 1 tile SE of the start, claiming the furs and the 2spt that went with it.

The best spot I could find for a 20k city was 5 tiles SW of Persepolis. It was on the coast, beside a river, and had a couple of BG tiles. I could have done a bit better, but not on the coast. I founded Pasargadae in 2510. Only the survival of my Empire was given higher priority than Pasargadae's growth.

DISEASE: I used a lot of 4-letter words in the start of this game. Disease really tore me up in Persepolis. It struck 3 times (2-turn cycles) in 2430 BC, 2030 BC, and 1870 BC. It was a huge kick in the pants, occurring *each* time just as the city was supposed to reach size 5, dropping it to size 1 or 2 after it finished its settler. I finally gave up on Persepolis as a settler factory and founded Arbela near the Plains/Cow in 1700 BC. Not surprisingly, once I did that, I didn't have any more problems with disease.

NEIGHBORS: We met Japan in 2950 BC and Rome in 2800 BC.

WAR!: In 900 BC, I ask 2 Roman Warriors to leave the lands around Susa. They declare war! Rome also declares on Japan (What was he thinking?) My Immortals (and the GA they start) are easily able to hold off the archers/warriors Caesar sends my way and (auto)raze his outer ring of towns. As we approach Rome, I do the thing I dread most: I lose a fight to a Legion. Doh! Rome becomes much tougher in it's GA (610 BC.) I spend the years from 470 BC to and 10 AD slogging my forces into Rome and taking out their perimeter forces. I manage to pop a MGL during this time, form an Immortal Army, and then lose it against a regular legion.

In 130 AD, I sign peace with Caesar. He's willing to give me everything he has for peace (all his gold, cities, and tech), so there's no point fighting any longer.

MIDDLE AGES!: I traded the captured Roman techs with Japan for Polytheism, bringing the Persian Empire into the Middle Ages in 150 AD. At this point, I still lack the 2 optional government techs. Luckily, Rome has Republic and Japan has Monarchy, so a little bit of trading nets both techs. I'll be waiting 4 turns while Pasargadae completes the Heroic Epic and then switching over to Republic, but that's a story for another day.

TECHNOLOGY:
4000 BC: BW/Masonry: 4000 BC
3150 BC: Pottery (Researched)
2950 BC: Wheel, Warrior Code, CB (Japan)
2800 BC: Alphabet (Rome)
2390 BC: IW (Rome); Mysticism (Japan)
1750 BC: Writing (Rome)
1075 BC: HBR (Rome), MM (Japan)
750 BC: Literature (Researched)
670 BC: Math (Researched)
430 BC: CoL (Great Library)
150 AD: Philosophy, Construction, Republic (Rome); Polytheism, Monarchy (Japan); Feudalism (Scientific Trait)

QSC Stats: 5 cities, 1 settler, 5 workers, population 16, 1 temple, 2 barracks, 2 granaries, 1 Colossus, Know: All 1st tier techs; All 2nd tier ex. Mathematics; MM+HBR. Wow, that's sad.

20K CITY BUILDS:
1830 BC: Temple
1050 BC: Colossus
450 BC: Great Library
370 BC: Library
50 BC: Forbidden Palace
Heroic Epic in 4 turns

My Empire in 150 AD.

My 20K City (Pasargadae) in 150 AD

Drugged_Unholy · Mar 20, 2005

After my humiliating cultural defeat at the hands of the celts in cotm 10, I decided that this time I would try for 100k, but with the intention of having flexibility so I could change this goal.

After reading the pre-game thread it became clear that the capitol was a potential 4-turn settler factory. As I have never managed to get this working before I thought Id concentrate on learning this skill in the AA. However firstly I wanted to have some ancient culture, and therefore researched Ceremonial Burial so I could build a temple. While researching CB I built a couple of warriors to go exploring. I managed to get CB quickly and built a temple just before reaching size 5. I decided to quickly build a settler before starting on the Granary.

After these initial moves my factory was ready, however disaster struck in the form of disease, so it was only at around 1500 BC that I managed to get the factory up and running, and it took a few tries before I managed to successfully manage settlers in 4-turns.

Despite this setback I remained optimistic, and exploring had revealed the location of the other civs. My expansion was slower than I would have liked, but was still satisfactory. However, with my goal in mind, I set all new settlements to build temples before they started to build up a military (by this time I had obtained IW via trading and knew where the Iron was). I had decided the Romans were going to be the first target, and I would let Japan expand into the jungle. My cultural strategy started to pay off even before the war with Rome when one of its outlying cities decided my religion was the true way and defected.

This defection was excellent news as it allowed me closer to Romes main cities, and I had about 15 Immortals ready. A couple of turns later I attacked and triggered the Golden age in 280 AD. 100 years later Rome fell and the War was effectively over. I spent a few turns sweeping up their remaining cities, before agreeing to peace. The peace deal left the Romans with 2 small cities on the Jungle Peninsular, and more importantly, gave me the techs to send me into the Middle ages. Almost immediately after, Japan decided it would be fun to kick a man when he is down, and attacked the weak Cesar. :lol:

BTW How do you do screenshots?

Offa · Mar 20, 2005

Open.

I thought I was starting this pretty well. I settled SE of the start and I built granary (3200bc), warrior, settler (2800bc) warrior, settler (2550bc) by which time I had a fully operational 4 turn settler factory working.

The worker irrigated 3 flood plains then chopped and irrigated the fur forests, then irrigated a plain. I was trying a compromise route of working forest a lot rather than flood plains in an attempt to build the granary faster. All planned on my spreadsheet. I don't believe an early worker is needed.

3350bc Pottery researched. Go for iron working at max

3050bc first warrior built: sent east

2800bc settler finished on time. Need to plan a bit more. I can't see enough of the map to judge well but think I will try a ring at 4. Send first settler east.

2950. Find Rome itself: what a site.
2470 Give Rome Masonry and Pottery for alphabet and 10g.
2390 Rome has iron working now.

2350 we learn iron a turn after the Romans.

2110 My southern warrior is next to an undefended Roman town but I can't afford to attack as there is a roman warrior next to my undefended towns.

1910 Meet Japan. I give masonry and alphabet for WC CB and wheel.
Tarsus founded in north near the plains cow. Rome has founded a town near but not right next to the iron in the SE so My new settler will try to claim that.

AND THEN: I took my eye off the ball:

Action was required very urgently, but hey, the Romans are polite, we have traded, they are just wandering...

Next turn:

and now I attempted to sweet talk the odious Caesar (I renegotiated peace, paying them gpt) , but it looked hopeless. He declared anyway and:

That's that for gotm41. I haven't been sneak attacked that early in a long time. I guess the game is winnable easily enough, but a good score isn't going to happen. A pity as I really had played OK until then.

If anything it is surprising how rarely sneak attacks happen.
I initially thought I was just unlucky, but have replayed it and the situation is retrievable from the 1910bc position.

ainwood · Mar 20, 2005

For the people asking about how to post screenshots - take a look at this post.

Megalou · Mar 20, 2005

@Offa,
Tough luck, it could have happened to anyone. I'm sure you'll think of very sinister schemes for the next XOTM now.

PREDATOR [ptw]

I was certainly harrassed by the Romans too. They seem to be a very agressive sort. This was the suspicious situation of 1990 BC:

We fended off both the attackers and then a 3rd one. By then I was pretty confident, remembering how Dynamic had gotten a very good peace deal when he was 2-0 up on battles in a recent game. So I tried to get my settler production started. But the Romans would not settle for peace and in 1650 BC disaster struck:

After this, the Romans would hardly accept anything for peace and their archers were really starting to swarm. In 1350 BC we paid 16 gpt and Philosophy for a peace treaty and had to live with it for 9 turns, until the Romans demanded 7 gold. We had a negative gpt and refused to lose our granary so of course we were at war again. This war was basically a draw, but my number of warriors was stagnant.

In 350 BC we have a fair number of immortals and so incite Rome to declare war for the third time. Of course, by this time they have a foul number of legionaries. We take Veii easily but the stack that goes to Rome is too small so in 190 BC we're at peace again, and the Romans have a Golden Age just as we do.

In 150 BC we disconnect our iron. Most towns have libraries and have started warriors, three of them 1 warrior per turn.

In 110 BC we enter the Middle Ages. We actually paid Rome 14 gpt and 2 luxuries to save 3 turns on construction. We think we shall keep neither this deal nor the peace deal of 190 BC. The Romans have already proved to be the worst villains in the world anyway.

Forbidden Palace and great Lighthouse are both due in 5 turns.

QSC (Sigh)
7 towns, 3 settlers, pop 12
5 workers
6 warriors
Very few techs
2 contacts

Expansion
I chose RCP5. I can see two advantages and one disadvantage with this. The advantages are that we can fit in no less than 12 towns at that distance, and that we can have several strong coastal towns to build galleys. The disadvantage is that a few flood plains will be left unused.

Goal
I'm going for domination.

Timeline (galley routes removed) - Warning: Contains Comic Book Cuss Words Like #,! and ¤

Spoiler :

Misc
The first Roman attack came at the worst possible time, apart from the fact that I happened to have some warriors around Persepolis. I had hardly built any towns, whereas the Romans probably had several with their excellent starting location. Since the AI consider territory a big power factor, my lack of towns was probably the reason why they would not accept peace.

Also, this is probably the game where the predator handicap has affected me the most. While you're trying a settler gambit, two extra offensive units are quite a threat.

Denniz · Mar 20, 2005

- Open

Moved SE settled on plains, fur. Builds were 3 warriors and a worker and then settler in 2710BC.

By 1500BC, I had 3 cities, 13 pop, 2 settlers, 3 workers, 1 slave, and 11 warriors. I had built 2 Barracks and 1 Granary. Rome has placed a city near the closest iron, leaving me with only the iron in the jungles to the north. IBT 1525BC, Rome made a demand which I refused, recieving the expected declaration of war. I had 4 vertern warriors near the iron city (Cumae) with a 5th moving in that direction.

By 1425BC, I had 6 warriors (5 Vet) next to Cumae. I was confident I could take a reg spearman or two. What I didn't realize was that Cumae had been founded on a hill.

I lost 5 of the 6 warriors before I figured out it wasn't just bad RNG. I retreated the surviving warrior leaving behind an elite spearman defender.

I immediately changed my production to a war footing by switching my two Barracks equiped cities from settlers to archers. While the capitol, which had just finished a settler, started building a barracks. The settler went north to settle the iron in the jungle.

In 1000BC, I had 6 cities with 24 pop, 3 workers, 1 slave (Japanese trade), 8 Archers (1 Elite, 7 vet), and 3 warriors (1 vet). I had 5 barracks and 1 granary. I was short Math, Ploy, CoL (in 2 turns), Curr and Constr as well as the governments. I had destroyed one roman city founded 1 turn before I could catch the warrior/settler pair encrouching just south of my area. I was able to fend off the warriors and archers coming NW and had 4 Archers nearing Veii. Unfortuneately, the first Legion had also made an appearance.

In 950BC, I was up to 11 archers. The 5 archers on hand were able to destroy the reg legion on a hill and auto-raze Veii. Not without triggering Romes GA, though. I was researching Republic and had my workers roading toward the northern iron. Time to quit while I was ahead. With his recent losses, I was able to get two cities from Rome for peace.

I discovered Republic in 490BC, using the big picture to revolt. I got 5 turns and tried again but got 6 instead.

With the establishment of a Persian republic in 370BC, I was ready to renew the war with Rome. I had used the time to established 6 more cities and build my military up to 11 archers and 12 immortals. I had positioned 6 immortals next to Cumae and another 4 along with 6 archers next to Hispalis (founded on the site of Veii). With republic and strong core, I was ready to for my GA as well.

Normally, I like to wage wars like this in Monarchy instead of Republic due to the costs of maintaining a large army. But since I have observed that the top players routinely use republic, I decided to do it that way. Lack of horses on the continent would make for a slow expensive war. War weariness would also be a factor.

I discovered currency in 110BC and entered the MA with Feudalism as my free tech. I had captured Cumae, Hiapalis and Rome (w/Pyramids). In addition, I had auto-razed 2 other cities. I was down to 6 archers but was up to 34 Immortals and was paying 62 gpt for unit support. Rome still had 6 cities, including one on the long, skinny pennisula and two on an island to the east.

continued in the next spoiler...

Contacts:
Rome - 2900BC
Japan - 2310BC
(I never built a single galley in the AA.)

AA Research:
3950 BC - Bronze Working; Masonry
2900 BC - Alphabet (Trade)
2270 BC - The Wheel (Trade); Warrior Code (Trade); Ceremonial Burial (Trade); Iron Working
2070 BC - Pottery (Trade); Mysticism (Trade)
1725 BC - Writing
1700 BC - Horseback Riding (Trade)
1200 BC - Philosophy
1000 BC - Map Making (Trade)
950 BC - Code of Laws
490 BC - The Republic
370 BC - Mathematics (Trade); Polytheism (Trade)
310 BC - Literature
190 BC - Construction
110 BC - Currency; Feudalism (Free)

Smirk · Mar 20, 2005

Very odd behavior from the AI this game, but I see now that its a common occurance. I had Rome sneak attack me in gotm39, of course they just attacked I don't leave my border cities undefended.
This game I see 3 warriors marching towards me and knew something was going down, it was 1600 BC when he declared, pretty early for an AI war, I put my warriors in position to get attacked and hopefully win out with the odds, but I did have to retreat a settler a few turns to get an escort. All told I lose a warrior and he lost 3, I had no intention of warring this early without iron and with mere warriors so I got peace as soon as possible and I think was able to get his maps, not much else.

The other oddity was Japan settled right next to me, with lots of room inbetween. The first made a bit of sense since he wanted some furs, the other I thought for sure he was going for the spices but instead he settled in the middle of nowhere, by a river. Strange. I let em waste his time in the jungle, I'll take those cities no problem with this start.

I went RCP of 3 and then 5 I think, sent my second city southeast to do workers, without a granary I'm doing 5 turn workers with 3 pop, that should be plenty. My second and third both also settled furs, and quickly built libraries then barracks and cranked out 2 turn warriors for a while after that, my warring began right after 1000 BC, once getting iron roaded. This also coincided with me finishing republic.

My tech route was pottery, burial, then traded for alphabet and went up writing to maps then clear out the techs to get to republic. Sadly, other than getting Iron, Mysticism, Wheel and Alphabet, Caesar seemed to be following my tech route and Toku while getting me Mysticism has fallen behind. I gave up Masonry early and Caesar built the Pyramids for me, some other civ got the Oracle in the cascade, but it stopped there.

As for how my game developed, I'm not going for conquest or domination so spent more time with cities and infrastructure than would be needed in this map. With the production available I would suspect you could skip the upgrade route and build immortals normally, that is if you do research.

All in all its been fun so far, despite the excellent starts the AI had, and the quick expansion they were able to handle.

Sabre · Mar 20, 2005

Jeez and here I was moaning about an early bout of disease! Sorry about the bad Roman breaks guys.

Open PTW
100k Culture (SGOTM whetted my appetite for cramming towns and building stuff)

Opening Moves

Three guesses where I placed Persepolis!

My initial builds were warrior, warrior, granary, settler, warrior, warrior, warrior, warrior, settler. I had everything planned out nicely after playing with Excel for about half an hour and of course it all gets thrown out the window 11 turns in when Persepolis loses a pop to disease. Luckily Persepolis was only at pop 2 and the damage was limited. A quick reconnaissance led me to getting a 2nd settler out before the factory was ready. This 2nd town, placed 4 tiles to the NE, made up for the delay by developing into a 6-turn settler factory. My main factory was up and running in 2190bc, the second in 1625bc.

My starting research was Pottery at 100%, followed by a string of 40-turn techs led by Iron Working and Mathematics. My goal was to build up cash (and all that population working on rivers, my gold built up fast!

) and trade or conquer most of the AA techs.

1000bc

Very little happened up to this point. Settlers, workers and warriors were built along with a couple temples to put the squeeze on the Roman town next to my iron. Did anyone NOT have the Romans place a town there? I settled right on top of the iron and the temple placed my border against their town in the hopes of flipping it.

1000bc stats:
Towns - 12
Pop - 24
Settlers - 2
Workers - 5
Warriors - 10
Granaries - 2
Temples - 2
Barracks - 1
Gold - 1032 +32/t
Tech - 1st tier, Math, Writing, MM, HR, Myst
Score - 213 (2nd to Rome - 239)(Japan is third with 200)

Rome

In 825bc Rome built the Pyramids and sealed their fate. In 470bc I declared on them and made quick work of their towns west of Rome. Unfortunately my stack of 14 immortals were not enough to take out the city of Rome. Those legions on the hill, combined with some bad RNG luck were devestating. A 15th immortal would have done the job. When my attack was done all that remained was 1 redlined spear. Between turns several more legions entered Rome. I decided my heavily damaged forces were not enough for the task and I retreated them out to heal. A couple turns later I researched Currency, leaving just the two techs Rome was willing to give for researching. I bit the bullet and gave them peace (for around 20 turns

) for the techs and found myself in the Middle Ages in 190bc.

Random Notes

The immortals are a nice unit, but are they slow! Due to the layout of the terrain, all my military building towns were on the west side of the nation (the east side was busy building settlers and workers) and it took 5-6 turns just to get them to front lines even with a good road system.

Early on Japan settled a town in the middle of the jungle for no apparent reason. Do they know something I don't? Hmmmm. Japan is hopelessly behind in tech (yay! no samurai!), so the town will be mine sooner or later. It'll be interesting to see what drew them there.

No horses anywhere on the continent? The Knights fanatics will not be happy. :lol:

I ended up taking my Golden Age in Despotism. I wanted to get Rome as a second core as soon as possible and I didn't want to wait for Republic. I used the GA to build libraries and temples everywhere and got a nice early start on my culture push.

That peninsula to the east got my hopes up for a bit, but of course it ended up as a long road to nowhere. My warrior enjoyed hacking his way through the steamy jungle though and sends his thanks to Ainwood.

Research
3400 - Pottery
2430 - Ceremonial Burial (Japan for Mas, Pott)
2430 - Warrior Code (Japan for Mas, Pott)
2430 - Alphabet (Rome for Mas, Pott)
2430 - The Wheel (Japan for Alph)
2270 - Iron Working (Rome for CB, Whl)
2270 - Mysticism (Japan for IW)
1650 - Writing (Rome for Myst)
1075 - Mathematics
1025 - Map Making (Japan for Math)
1025 - Horseback Riding (Rome for Math)
430 - Philosophy
350 - Literature
270 - Polytheism
190 - Currency
190 - Code of Laws (Rome for peace)
190 - Construction (Rome for peace)

Persia at 1000bc:

My minimap at 190bc:

BlackBetsy · Mar 21, 2005

My start went very much according to my planning. I founded Persepolis on the fur SE, like everyone else, and built warrior-warrior-settler (3200 bc) (with a chop)-granary- worker (for calibration) then turned Persepolis into a 5-turn settler factory. I guess I could have had it as a 4-turn factory, but I couldn't afford to get allow it to reach pop 6 - I wanted luxury slider at 0 to max research to get huge tech lead early on neighbors.

The only exception was that I grabbed the Iron SE of Persepolis with the third city (Susa). Since Susa was going to be another 5-turn settler factory running by 1200 bc, my 1000 bc population was a little short of what I expected. Nevertheless, it was my best 1000 bc start ever without the benefit of popping a settler.

Pasargadae was cranking warriors and built a barracks in 2070 bc. Iron was hooked up in 1475 bc, and I had 7 Immortals upgraded from veteran warriors headed for Rome in no time at all. I actually started the war in 1250 bc and took my first Roman city (Veii) in 1225...triggering a despotism golden age. No worries. Rome was begging for peace in 1050, but I wouldn't give it to them. Happily, Rome built the Pyramids in 1025, sealing the fate of Rome. Romans never hooked up iron for very long, they only produced a single legion, which did enough damage, thank you very much (wiping out an Army of Immortals). Rome fell in 710 bc. I kept them around for a while, though, into the time when I hit the Middle Ages.

I turned North to hit the Japanese, but taking only 8 Immortals for the task (only 6 vets) was dumb, and cost me many, many turns. I went straight up the Japanese main street, taking Kagoshima, Osaka (iron city), and Kyoto, but lost Osaka and Kyoto right back. Had to settle for peace and one Japanese city in 30 bc. Could not launch a new invasion through the jungles until the middle ages.

Hit the Middle Ages in 250 bc, shortly after launching a few suicide galleys.

Here are my QSC stats:

11 CITIES
28 POPULATION
2 GRANARIES
2 BARRACKS
1 SETTLER
4 WORKERS
8 WARRIORS
5 SPEARMAN
11 IMMORTALS (1 Elite, 8 Veteran, 2 Regular)

Techs:

4000 bc- BRONZE WORKING, MASONRY (starting techs)
3350 bc- POTTERY (researched)
3050 bc- ALPHABET (Romans)
3000 bc- CEREMONIAL BURIAL, THE WHEEL, WARRIOR CODE (Japanese)
2350 bc- IRON WORKING (researched)
1790 bc- WRITING (researched)
1625 bc- MYSTICISM (Japanese)
1600 bc- PHILOSOPHY (researched), HORSEBACK RIDING (Japanese)
1175 bc- POLYTHEISM (researched)
1050 bc- MAPMAKING (Japanese)

Here are the cities, in order:

3950 bc- Persepolis
3050 bc- Pasargadae at RCP 4.0 (chosen because 4 of 6 cities would have fresh water access)
2030 bc- Susa at RCP 6.5 (would become second ring)
1950 bc- Arbela
1725 bc- Antioch
1625 bc- Tarsus
1425 bc- Gordium (spices for second lux)
1350 bc- Bactra
1225 bc- Veii (captured)
1200 bc- Sidon
1125 bc- Tyre

And the screenie:

Vic · Mar 21, 2005

Odd about the roman aggression. I spose my paranoid self (first game on monarch) built enough warriors and spears early to scare them off, it was funny tho, when i had about 6 immortals and building 1-2 per turn i tried to declare war by demanding all their money (around 40), which they gave!!??! Still im not one to give in to bribary.

I see now i moved a little slow, compared with you guys, mainly due to my lack of effort in secureing iron asap. Oh well, first Gotm and first monarch, still alive and going strong in industrial age (but enough of that here) so im happy

Another thing i noticed from the pregame discussion thread, was talk of wheat to the NW and grassland north etc etc, stop analysing dudes

Megalou · Mar 21, 2005

Sabre said:
This 2nd town, placed 4 tiles to the NE, made up for the delay by developing into a 6-turn settler factory.

Great move, great scouting!

Sabre said:
Settlers, workers and warriors were built along with a couple temples to put the squeeze on the Roman town next to my iron. Did anyone NOT have the Romans place a town there?

Yes

for me the Romans razed a town there :sad:

Più Freddo · Mar 21, 2005

Open class, learning domination (Teach me, tiger!)

Founding

Persepolis was founded in 3950 BC south-east of the starting
position. The worker went east to irrigate. Science on maximum
researching Pottery. Build order: Warrior, then Worker.

In 3550 BC Warrior1 had found lots of jungle to the north-east. A
decision was made to keep production on Worker rather than switch to
Settler, since no contact had been made and no superior location had
been found -- it's good all around!

In 3400 BC Pottery was discovered, and a pre-build in Persepolis
changed to Granary. Science raised back to 100% researching Iron
Working.

As predicted by sooth-sayers, roaming cattle were found to the
north-west of the capital. This happened in 3200 BC. The western sea
was located in 3050 BC.

The Granary was completed in 2800 BC and in 2710 BC the two workers
had completed all improvements for a four-turn 4-6 settler factory in
Persepolis. We paused briefly to consider ring city placements and
decided to go for rings 3, 6 and 9. With four cities in ring 3, the
five inner core cities could each have twelwe tiles supporting twelve
citizens. Four of them would be placed on rivers. Ring 6 then would have three
coastal cities and nicely touch the river in the jungle to the
north-east for a reasonable limes city towards the lower-standing
civilizations. Eventually, eight cities would be build in ring 6.

Meeting Rome

A red border had been spotted in the south-east in 2590 BC. This made
Xerxes change his mind from founding his second city to the north-east
in favour of settling towards the Romans in the south-east. When
contact was taken in 2510 BC, we traded Pottery and Masonry for
Alphabet. Rome still had Warrior Code which we lacked.

The First Few Cities

We spotted our first iron in the east in 2430 BC and then more of it
closer to the Romans a few turns later. After Pasargadae was founded
3SE of Persepolis, Susa would be founded in ring 6 next to the first
iron deposit. This occurred according to plan in 2190 BC. We spotted
our only goody hut close to Susa, but left it, since our cities are
undefended. Pasargadae built two Warriors, which were both sent as
military police to Persepolis. Susa built a Worker. Arbela was founded
3NE and then disease struck Pasargadae. Thank RNG that Persepolis was
saved!

Growth and Preparation

A Settler was cranked out every four turns between 2470 BC and 1000 BC,
that's 13 Settlers. Rings 3 and 6 were filled except for two locations
in ring 6 close to the Romans, which were left in order not to provoke
a too early war. In ring 9 one city was founded as soon as possible to
claim the spices in the jungle and another one on the coast to the
north-west to fill the space south of the jungle.

Japan was met in 1910 BC, and we traded Alphabet and Masonry for The
Wheel, Warrior Code, Ceremonial Burial and 10 gold. Later we trade
Mathematics and Ceremonial Burial to the Romans for Writing. In 1325
BC, the Romans demanded Polytheism, which they got. We were going
directly for Monarchy with the plan to have our golden age under that
form of government when we eventually attacked the Romans. We would
let the Japanese settle the jungles and do the tedious clearing and
roading before we would pick them like a ripe apple. Our side of the
jungle was densely settled before any Japanese had ventured to far. As
it turned out, even Rome founded a city in the middle of the jungle.

Our two scouting Warriors mapped the whole continent often stepping on
the territory of the other two civilizations until they were thrown
out. They avoided the long peninsula since there-and-back-again
movements are inefficient for scouting.

A few turns before 1000 BC, we lowered science in order to time the
discovery of Monarchy to after population-rushing a Temple in our
spices city, Bactra. This was to be our only population rush in
despotic times. We were then building mainly Spearmen in preparation
for the attack on Rome or an attack from them.

Status 1000 BC

13 Cities
38 Citizens
1 Settler
8 Workers
6 Warriors
6 Spearmen
2 Catapults
13 First and second tier technologies plus Polytheism and Monarchy

The Ketchup Effect

A revolution was made in 975 BC resulting in no less than eight turns
of anarchy. Monarchy was finally established in 775 BC. We got Map
Making, Horseback Riding, World Map and 2 gold from the Japanese for
Polytheism, Mathematics and Territory Map. We built up our forces of
Immortals and, from cities without a barracks, catapults. We also
founded the two missing cities in ring 6 towards the Romans. The
progress seemed very slow indeed when in 530 BC the Romans demanded
Literature, we refused and they declared war on us. Our first
Immortals win triggered a golden age with a complete 13-city
high-population core under monarchy, and our production skyrocketed.
Workers had been toiling long with the aim to have at least one sheld
produced on as many tiles a possible before the golden age set in.

Soon we had ammassed a sizeable force which wasn't daunted by the
recent completion in Rome of The Great Wall, but went on and captured
that city including its Wall and The Pyramids. Production was now so
high, that we were tempted to start building all kinds of improvements
in our cities, including great wonders such as The Great Library and
The Great Lighthouse. Improvements, after all, remain when the golden age has gone.

The luck of war waned and so did our forces,
bringing the operations in Roman lands to slow down. We offered Rome
peace in return for cities, but we used the peace only to reinforce
and relocate our forces. When Ceasar didn't withdraw his forces fast
enough, we provoked him to declare war on us again, bringing down his own
destruction upon him. That Roman peninsula, however, went on and on...

budweiser · Mar 21, 2005

I got conquered by the pesky romans :cry:

I built a warrior and sent him east and found rome. I built another warrior and sent him north and found japan. I was doing good on trades, I achieved parity without giving either one of them Bronze working (I would have had a IW monoploy for a bit). However, in my zeal for rapid expansion, I forgot to build third warrior to keep in town and started right away on my second settler. Pretty soon a roman warrior marched into my undefended capitol and that was all she wrote.

Sheesh! How embarrasing.

Redbad · Mar 21, 2005

Open PTW

Hurray, finally a game where the X-man is on my side.

If I ever want to gain the eptathlon I have to do military victorygoals as well. This will be my first attempt at a military victorytype in GOTM. The Persians have a strong but slow UU and cheap culture (library), so I rather go for domination then conquest.

I performed the Klarius/Eldar-1 opening, buiding warrior, worker, warrior, granary and settlers. Second city between the cow and the deer, building granary and then wokers. Other cities on military duty (barracks, warriors, immortals).
The cities were placed in RCP5. More outlaying cities were not placed in RCP but followed the terrain-features.

Having an early and strong UU, I want to get a gouverment-tech asap. In the beginning both Monarchy and Republic need an extra four techs before they can be researched. So I let it depend upon the trading situation before making a choice. My own research starts full on Pottery and then Iron Working. After meeting the Romans and Japanese and trading around, I got all the first tier techs. So upon completing Iron Working there are two techs towards Monarchy and three towards Republic. I go for Monarchy and start on Mysticism. 9 Turns before finishing Mysticism the Japanese got it and I traded, then I started full on Polytheism.

950BC Monarchy is researched and I get a four turn anarchy. The Romans, who have build the Pyramids in 1075BC, sneak me. Theyve sneaked me twice in the Greek-game, but this time they wont get away with it. Their first assaults only include warriors and spears, no legionairs. I ally Japan and start upgrading my warriors. When the first legionairs arrive, I have some 6 immortals and am in Monarchy. So, its time to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and, unfortunatly for Caesar, Im all out of bubblegum. My Golden Age starts in 825BC.

After some 6 turns the Japanese back out of the MA-deal. Oh well, just as good, we wouldnt have stayed friends for ever anyway. Though I will not come across such a tough defender as the legionaire again in this game, they cannot hold against the immortals. Despite having their Golden Age started in 610BC, the Roman Empire slowly falls apart and in 390BC its all over for Caesar. I got one MGL which I used for the FP in Rome.
Towards the end of the Roman war I started diverting troops towards Japan to teach them the immortal way of doing business. Ive already conquered some outlaying cities. With the destruction of the Romans the Japanese are in no position to resist and in 110BC were forced to say goodby.

I enter the MA is 70BC

davidcrazy · Mar 21, 2005

Grogs said:
GOTM 41
Class: Open
Version: PTW 1.27f
Goal: 20k Victory

I tripped so many times coming out of the starting gate on this one, it's a wonder I made it through the AA at all. I founded Persepolis 1 tile SE of the start, claiming the furs and the 2spt that went with it.

The best spot I could find for a 20k city was 5 tiles SW of Persepolis. It was on the coast, beside a river, and had a couple of BG tiles. I could have done a bit better, but not on the coast. I founded Pasargadae in 2510. Only the survival of my Empire was given higher priority than Pasargadae's growth.

I had almost the same setup as Grogs. and our QCS data are also quite similar. fortunately my Persepolis was only struck by disease once.

My 20K CITY BUILDS:
2190 BC: Temple
1075BC: Oracle
630 BC: Colossus
70 BC: Great Library
50 AD: Library
270 AD hanging garden
400 AD: Lighthouse
560 AD: Forbidden Palace
some of them may actually be built in the MA, but since i didn't really remember when the MA started, i just list all those buildings requiring no MA tech here.

BlackBetsy · Mar 21, 2005

Redbad said:
When the first legionairs arrive, I have some 6 immortals and am in Monarchy. So, its time to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and, unfortunatly for Caesar, Im all out of bubblegum. My Golden Age starts in 825BC.

Wow, a reference to "They Live"!

I really shoulda thought about getting Monarchy first and then starting my GA. I just didn't want to deal with legions defending at 3 - especially on the hills of Rome. I decided taking out the Romans before they hooked up Iron and had legions was too important, so I waxed them starting in 1250 bc.

What I truly regret, now that I think about it, was wasting my first MGL on building an Immortal Army for the purposes of the Heroic Epic. I should have immediately built the FP in Rome. This would have dramatically shortened all future wars as I produce more units from Rome and vicinity. The Immortal Army got killed by the single Roman legion I faced...it lasted all of about 10 turns. The FP eventually got built in Rome anyway, although at a time where the game was already pretty much over.

al_thor · Mar 21, 2005

After reading about all of the people that were given a hard time (even one person crushed - sorry Budweiser!) by the bloody Roman's, I feel even better about what I did to Ceasar.

There were more than a few turns in my game where Rome could have 'sneak attacked', and I'm not quite sure why he did not. I must have had the right amount of Warriors to deter him, although if things had not gone as follows, I'm sure he would have jumped me anyway.

Initial build was: Warrior, Warrior, Worker, Granary. Sent 1 Warrior east and the other North-west.

Research was: Pottery, Iron Working, Writing, Literature. Met the Romans and Japanese. Traded for all 1st-tier techs.

Expanded TOWARDS the Romans, as it seemed that Japan was to the north, on the other side of a huge expanse of jungle. I was getting VERY nervous about the Roman units moving through my territories, coming dangerously close to un-defended cities. Just then, Japan made a demand of me (some Tech or other), and I refused. He declared war. This could not have been timed more perfectly, as I had a Tech lead on Rome and was able to get him to ally with me against Japan for a tech and GPT. Whew! One or 2 more turns, and I'm sure that Rome would have attacked me.

Then, about 5 turns into the war, Japan shows up at one of my north-west cities with a surprising force of like 4 Archers and 3 Warriors. No way could my defense of 1 Regular Warrior stand up to that. So, it was either lose the city, or break my deal with Rome by making peace with Japan. Without a second thought, I made peace, stabbing Rome in the back :lol:

Then, as Rome and Japan slugged it out in the midst of my territory, I continued to expand :lol:

Rome had his GA, but lost a city, which I immediatley filled in! Ha! Meanwhile, I built Veteran Warriors and some Immortals. I then waited out Rome's GA, massing a force of Spear & Immortals on the borders. Then, 2 turns after becomming Republic, I upgraded as many Warriors to Immortal as I could afford, and pounced on him, taking all of his cities on the continent. The best thing was, a Great Leader was born on the very last attack on a Roman city. The FP went up in Rome the very next turn. Talk about a VERY productive 2nd-core!

The city of Rome had the Great Library, which later netted me Monarchy, Monotheism, and Chivalry.

GOTM 41: First Spoiler

Consultant.

Emperor

Chieftain

King

Warlord

Bretwalda

Consultant.

Thez worlds are not enuf

Where's my breakfast?

King

Cheftain

Warlord

Attachments

Chieftain

Thez worlds are not enuf

From space, earth is blue

King of the Beers

should have shaved

Warlord

Warlord

Prince

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