Proposed Amendment to Articles D and E of the Constitution

Ashburnham · Apr 17, 2005

Do you approve of the attached legislation amending Article D and Article E, and the provisions for its activation?

-Yes
-No
-Abstain

Old text. Sections unaffected are indicated by ellipses (. . .)

Code:

Article D.  The Strategic Branch consists of the President, the Vice 
            President, and the Consuls. The Consuls, as listed below, 
            are in tasked with deciding on the broader picture of how 
            Fanatannia will operate.
            
. . .  section 1-2 unaffected

            3.  Consul for Domestic Policy - Oversees long term 
                settlement, long term worker plans, and long term city 
                development objectives. Plans government switches.

. . .  remainder of Article D unaffected

Article E.  The Tactical Branch consists of the the officials in charge 
            of micromanagement of the game, within the boundaries of 
            the Strategic Branch's policy. The Tactical Branch consists 
            of the officials below.

. . .  section 1-3 unaffected

            4.  Director of Expansion - Decides on where to settle with 
                settlers. The Director of Expansion also oversees the 
                creation of provincal boundaries. Controls movement of 
                settlers and settler carrying transports.

. . .  remainder of Article E unaffected

New text, article E

Code:

Article D.  The Strategic Branch consists of the President, the Vice 
            President, and the Consuls. The Consuls, as listed below, 
            are in tasked with deciding on the broader picture of how 
            Fanatannia will operate.

. . .  Sections 1-2 unaffected

            3.  Consul for Domestic Policy - Oversees long term 
                settlement, long term worker plans, and long term city 
                development objectives. Plans government switches.
                Decides on where to settle with 
                settlers. Oversees the  
                creation of provincal boundaries. Controls movement of 
                settlers, escorts, and settler carrying transports.
                Plans switching the economy between normal and mobilized.


. . . Remainder of article D unaffected

Article E.  The Tactical Branch consists of the the officials in charge 
            of micromanagement of the game, within the boundaries of 
            the Strategic Branch's policy. The Tactical Branch consists 
            of the officials below.

. . .  Sections 1-3 unaffected
Section 4 deleted, section 5 renumbered to 4

            4.  Governors - Each Governor shall determine any policies 
                and procedures needed to carry out their duties. 
                Governors are responsible for the care, management, 
                use of the cities, and use of lands of a province 
                through the setting of build queues, allocation of 
                laborers on tiles, population rushes and drafting of 
                citizen soldiers.

This amendment will take effect the beginning of the term after its ratification, and shall be implemented in the election cycle of said term by removing the office of Director of Expansion from the nomination and election process for that term. The Director of Expansion in office for the term when this amendment is ratified shall continue in office for the remainder of the term.

Black_Hole · Apr 17, 2005

excellent! this fixes some flaws in the alternate government, and deserves passing!

basically:
a. The domestic consuls jobs are better defined
b. the director of expansion is removed

Furiey · Apr 18, 2005

So to summarise:

The Domestic Consul, unlike the other Consuls, is no longer solely a strategic (macromanagement) position, but also has tactical (micromanagement) powers as in specifically where to settle, and movements concerning Settlers and their Escorts.

The Domestic Consul also has the power to plan mobilisation along wtih government change. Currently, mobilisation is not anyone's responsibility.

The Director of Expansion is removed.

At least that is my understanding of what this means.

If the Domestic Consul plans government change and mobilisation, who actually has the power to do it? I would guess that it's intended that the Domestic Consul has this as well. The current version doesn't specify this either.

GenMarshall · Apr 18, 2005

Personaly, I dont approve striping more responsibilities away from the Military Leader's office. I feel that the Military Department can handle the escourts with no problem. If it was not striping away the Military Department's responsibilities, then I would have voted yes for this. But since Ive read that it actualy strips away responsibilities to the Military Department, I vote No.

DaveShack · Apr 18, 2005

CivGeneral said:
I feel that the Military Department can handle the escourts with no problem.

This is a wonderful example of why choosing not to participate in a thread can sometimes result in unexpected things you don't like.

If you had mentioned your disagreement in the discussion thread then this change probably wouldn't have gone in. The impression I got was that the question was "why are settler bearing transports in a different category than escorts?" and this merely answered that question. I don't think escort duty is specifically listed in the current Constitution at all, is it?

GenMarshall · Apr 18, 2005

DaveShack said:
This is a wonderful example of why choosing not to participate in a thread can sometimes result in unexpected things you don't like.

I guess next time I should put in my $0.02 into it. Dispite the thread relates to the alternate government consitution in which I avoid any discussion regarding it like the plague.

Yes, I am still for the traditional/Strider's Government system.

mad-bax · Apr 18, 2005

I think the difference between "Long Term" and "Short Term" need to be nailed down. I raised this question in JR9. The JR judgement was that "Long term means anything long term". This is not an adequte definition IMHO.

If short term was defined as anything that happens within the duration of a turnchat and "Long term" was defined as anything that takes longer than a turnchat, then it would become clear that 20 turn deals are a long term action, battle plans are a short term action, slider settings ar short term actions, planning which government to switch to is a long term action, deciding the turn on which to revolt is a short term action etc. I think the defenition of "Long Term" and "short Term" have caused (me at least) a lot of confusion.
I voted to pass the ammendment since it materially improves on what we had.

Ginger_Ale · Apr 18, 2005

Domestic Consul said:
Decides on where to settle with settlers.

Then what does the Direction of Expansion do? There's too much overlap...

MOTH · Apr 18, 2005

Ginger_Ale said:
Then what does the Direction of Expansion do? There's too much overlap...

GA, this proposal eliminates the Director of Expansion position and places there duties in the Domestic Consul's area.

GenMarshall · Apr 18, 2005

As a recent convert to the new consitution, I do regret casting that "No" vote

.

I wonder if it is possible to change my no vote to a yes vote.

Moderator Action: Vote changed.

Octavian X · Apr 18, 2005

Talk to a mod about it. I'm pretty sure they have those powers.

Provolution · Apr 18, 2005

I wholeheartedly support this amendment. And yes, Domestic control over escorts is needed, as we have seen how this confusion occurs otherwise. However, the Commander is free to transfer the escort to Domestic Guard duty, however, last minute settlements should be under the control of only one center of mandate, namely the party controlling city localization, here, Domestic. Any Commander doing cry baby over this, no need, the vast majority of the military is under military control. I am also for making the navy in peacetime to be under the control by a non-military office.

Finally, the wording DOES seem similar to my proposals that has been unduly silenced by shenanigans some 5-6 times before, and this proves my point someone else had to post the same discussion and poll with a different outcome due to the curious politics and cultural spine tap mechanisms of the legendary "cry wolf tribe".

Nobody · Apr 18, 2005

Finally, the wording DOES seem similar to my proposals that has been unduly silenced by shenanigans some 5-6 times before, and this proves my point someone else had to post the same discussion and poll with a different outcome due to the curious politics and cultural spine tap mechanisms of the legendary "cry wolf tribe".

This was Provolutions idea, eek could a mod please change my vote to a NO (joking)

DaveShack · Apr 19, 2005

While the Judiciary doesn't seem to have posted an official census, the math works out to a census of 36. For this measure to pass it needs either a 2/3 majority, no minimum number of votes; or simple majority with 60% of the census voting, or 22 votes.

The 22 vote minimum has been exceeded. :clap:

Guess I'll try to squeeze in another change before the noms go up.

Provolution · Apr 19, 2005

Just make the quick amendments and we will make it in time. We can surely delay nominations one day to assure a 90 % supported Constitution to override a 54 % supported constitutions borderline elections.

classical_hero · Apr 19, 2005

Having fixed one part of the constitution, lets do some more.

MOTH · Apr 20, 2005

This should be open for 96 hours according to Article Y of the constitution. Can a mod change this?

Black_Hole · Apr 20, 2005

moth is correct would a moderator please adjust the poll? it should be possible considering CT opened a poll for extra time :rolleyes:

eyrei · Apr 21, 2005

Poll time limit set to 96 hours.

zyxy · Apr 21, 2005

Voted Yes.

The expansion director was an almost empty position. Good that it goes.

In time we should do something about the language. "settling with settlers" ? :lol:

Now really... :rolleyes:

Proposed Amendment to Articles D and E of the Constitution

Do you approve of the attached legislation amending Article D and Article E, and the

Yes

No

Abstain

King

Deity

No Longer Just Lurking

High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent

Inventor

High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent

Deity

Lurker

Emperor

High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent

is not a pipe.

Sage of Quatronia

Gangster

Inventor

Sage of Quatronia

In whom I trust

Emperor

Deity

Deity

Warmongering Fool

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