Gr5 - Persian AW Demigod, Standard Continents

Greebley · Apr 23, 2005, 07:29 PM

Parameters:
Patch: 1.22 C3C
Level: Demigod
Variant: Always War
Civilization: TBD
Water: 60%
Map Type: Continents
Size:Standard
Age: Random
Temperature: Random
Climate: Random
Barbarians: Sedentary
Rivals: Random
AI Aggression: Normal
Victory Condition: All are enabled.
Culturally linked starts: OFF
Respawn: Off
Preserve Random Seed: On
Cultural Conversion: On
Requirement to play: At least one win in an AWE game.

I chose Persia since I haven't tried them recently. This was actually the first start I got. It looked strong enough to go for.

I played the first 20 turns to make sure it wasn't insta-death.

We have Barracks, a Regular Warrior, and Vet Spear.

--------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to try playing with the following restriction on pillaging:

Pillaging Restriction: Basically no pillaging by armies is allowed farther than 5 squares from our border. Land units cannot bypass a city without destroying it first. Sea units can go anywhere and drop off land units on any coast. The land units must then destroy the coastal cities before passing them either inland or along the coast (though they can bypass the coastal city by getting back on the boat). The idea here is to lessen the AI weakness of ignoring armies completely and allowing the human massive pillaging freedom. If the AI didn't have this weakness, you could pillage coastal resources by using boats, but inland resources would require fighting your way there.

If the enemy builds cities between a stack and our front lines, the stack can bypass the new city to head home or head deeper into enemy territory provided that they don't bypass any cities without capturing/razing).

Always War Rules:
You may only trade when you first meet a civilization, and must declare war on the same turn after trading is complete. If you see a new AI unit, you must make contact & declare war that turn. Absolutely no turn based trade (such as GPT) allowed. If you see a new face on F4, you are obligated to declare war that turn (after trading). Players must declare war if they are exploring and see AI units, but are not required to actually attack the units they come in contact with. No peace treaties, ever. You may check F4 as often as you like to spy on the AI's tech, resources, luxuries & city count.

Discuss any move that seems exploitive before doing it with the team. Although there are not too many exploits available in AW, we’ll follow the forbidden blatant exploits banned by GOTM and RBCiv such as no "Free Wealth". Other normal game exploits such as "Baiting the AI" with an empty city to create a kill zone are an AW tradition and are allowed. Also, you ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle. This is considered an exploit in RBCiv rules, but is okay in our AW games. In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it. We however cannot then disband the city just founded city on the same turn. We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves.

Optionally, I wouldn't mind getting rid of the first round trading. It never really helps much and seems a bit artificial to be able to trade the first round. We can dicuss this more or play the more standard rules.

SG Stuff
You have 24 hours for an "I got it" and 48 to play. If you need a one or two day extension, then mention this before the 48 hours are up. Players can work out skips between themselves, just post a message to the thread. If you can't play within 96 hours total, switch places or ask for a skip. A player plays 10 turns normally, but can choose to play 5 instead if their time is limited or when the turns get longer during the latter part of the game.

Roster:

Greebley
Handy900
ThERat
Open
Open
Open

I will post the save when we have enough players to start.

LKendter · Apr 23, 2005, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Optionally, I wouldn't mind getting rid of the first round trading. It never really helps much and seems a bit artificial to be able to trade the first round. We can dicuss this more or play the more standard rules.

lurker's comment: I always felt it was strange to be friendly for 2 minutes with the civ, then declare war. This is why I took this away in the LK series.

Greebley · Apr 23, 2005, 08:34 PM

Totally agree. What do ppl think? Shall we ditch the trading? I think one can win without it.

handy900 · Apr 23, 2005, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greebley

Totally agree. What do ppl think? Shall we ditch the trading? I think one can win without it.

Okay by me. I can't play tonight, but probably can get this tomorrow. I've not played Persia in a long time.

EDIT: Greebley - you can place me wherever in the roster you want.

Edit again land and mini map look pretty good. Hope there is a lux close by under the fog.

ThERat · Apr 23, 2005, 09:57 PM

checking in, agree with no trades ever.

btw, i could play today (s'pore it's sunday noon now)

bed_head7 · Apr 24, 2005, 12:19 AM

I guess I'll join, despite what I said in the other thread. I should be able to find the time for one more game.

Greebley · Apr 24, 2005, 12:38 AM

Welcome Bed_head

Note that you can choose between 5 or 10 turns.

I would like to wait one more day to see if we can get a fifth. I prefer 5 if we can get it.

Northern Pike · Apr 24, 2005, 03:10 PM

Greebley, thanks for the invitation. I'd be glad to join.

The more consistent no-trades policy is fine with me.

Greebley · Apr 24, 2005, 05:30 PM

Welcome NP

I am glad you could join us. It looks like we are ready to start. If someone else wants to play then speak up. 6 players is also fine.

The order is as best I remember the order of joining.

Greebley
Handy900 -Up
ThERat - On Deck
Bead_head7
Northern Pike
Open

Here is the save.

We will go with the no trade rule.

handy900 · Apr 24, 2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northern Pike

Greebley, thanks for the invitation. I'd be glad to join.

The more consistent no-trades policy is fine with me.

Yeah! N Pike is in the house.

And bed_head just let us know if you need a skip.

GOT IT

handy900 · Apr 24, 2005, 06:41 PM

Pre turn
Can’t decide if we should switch to spear, or send the settler out with the lone spear we have and build a new one after that. I’ll stay with the settler and hope we don’t get surprised by an early visit from a near by neighbor.

Turn 1 2950
Mine done start road.

Turn 2 2900
-
Turn 3 2850
Settler – Spear (4)
Settler moving to the hill on the River N N NE of the capital.

Turn 4 2800
-
Turn 5 2750
-
Turn 6 2710
River Hills founded and walls started. I’m hoping this walled city will shield our capital and allow us to get a good core down. There is no river crossing between the capital and River Hills.

IBT
Capital Spear – spear due in 3. We are size 5 and grow in 4.

Turn 7 2670
-

Turn 8 2630
-

Turn 9 2590
-

IBT
Spear - Settler

Turn 10 2550
Please feel free to switch the build, but maybe we can get away with an unguarded city to the south.
A granary would not be a bad build either. I thought about starting one, but decided a second city was better for the unit support.
Dot map with ideas below.
I don’t like to build next to the Smokey Mountains.
~~What are the barbs set to?~~ Sedentary. Naked settler to the south is definitly a possibility.

Substitute Gold Hill in the south for the red dot is a possibility since it will pull in a BG. But leaving Red Dot where it is allows for a city SW of the gold hill to be on the coast and grab the BG. Red Dot is probably better.

ThERat · Apr 24, 2005, 07:44 PM

got it, tonight, think settling red dot first is a good choice. so far no contacts? what's the tech situation like? still doing WC?

handy900 · Apr 24, 2005, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThERat

got it, tonight, think settling red dot first is a good choice. so far no contacts? what's the tech situation like? still doing WC?

No contacts. WC in 9 @ +0gpt. Lux is 30% Science is 60%.

I think red would be okay. Purple pulls in a BG, but if the Ai shows up, we'll wish we didn't have two cities to defend with no roads to use to reinforce them. Also purple is across a river.

One more thing. If you settle red dot we can chop a granary since the chop would go still to the capital. Settle blue and the chop goes to the blue dot.

If we can get some quick cities down it will help our economy a good bit.

Let's hope there is iron in those hills.

What's up next tech wise? Alpha or IW?

Greebley · Apr 24, 2005, 08:52 PM

Looks good Handy. Red dot seems best given we don't have a lot of defenders yet.

I think I would go for Iron Working next and explore a little if we don't see iron (check all the lands closest to us).

Greebley
Handy900 - Played
ThERat - Up
Bead_head7 - On Deck
Northern Pike

(there is room for another is someone wants to join).

ThERat · Apr 24, 2005, 08:55 PM

I was also thinking of IW next. given the magic, iron might just hide under that 'pink' dot. hope I am right.

LKendter · Apr 24, 2005, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greebley

(There is room for another is someone wants to join).

Well since you keep asking, I will finally give in and try AWD. As for the next city I say red dot. This position is an AW farmer's gambit as the moment. Red dot is the least likely to contact another civ. We need to be very paranoid until we get more cities in military mode.

I would really like a 2nd worker after the settler. We need to have our cities connected.

Now have we built any forges yet?

Oops, still stuck in RaR mode.

ThERat · Apr 24, 2005, 09:12 PM

given this Team, is it possible to lose? well, I might just be the weak link here

anyway agree with LK settler -> red dot, worker next, then spear

handy900 · Apr 24, 2005, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKendter

I will finally give in and try AWD.

Welcome aboard!

Is this AWD or DG? I should know since I already played, but I really didn't pay attention when I opened the save.

Quote:

given this Team, is it possible to lose? well, I might just be the weak link here

I'm always the weakest link. It's my job and you can't have it.

Agree on the workers. We need more.

ThERat · Apr 24, 2005, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by handy900

I'm always the weakest link. It's my job and you can't have it.

ok ok

Northern Pike · Apr 24, 2005, 10:05 PM

Red Dot is a very limited site which looks unlikely to support anything better than a fishing village. We should found on it eventually, but a city without BG seems a waste of our settlers right now. The real prize to the south is the site SW of the gold hill noted by Handy, and I'd rather settle towards it by way of Blue Dot.

Apr 23, 2005, 07:29 PM	#1
Greebley Deity Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston Area, MA Posts: 8,622	Gr5 - Persian AW Demigod, Standard Continents Parameters: Patch: 1.22 C3C Level: Demigod Variant: Always War Civilization: TBD Water: 60% Map Type: Continents Size:Standard Age: Random Temperature: Random Climate: Random Barbarians: Sedentary Rivals: Random AI Aggression: Normal Victory Condition: All are enabled. Culturally linked starts: OFF Respawn: Off Preserve Random Seed: On Cultural Conversion: On Requirement to play: At least one win in an AWE game. I chose Persia since I haven't tried them recently. This was actually the first start I got. It looked strong enough to go for. I played the first 20 turns to make sure it wasn't insta-death. We have Barracks, a Regular Warrior, and Vet Spear. -------------------------------------------------------------- I would like to try playing with the following restriction on pillaging: Pillaging Restriction: Basically no pillaging by armies is allowed farther than 5 squares from our border. Land units cannot bypass a city without destroying it first. Sea units can go anywhere and drop off land units on any coast. The land units must then destroy the coastal cities before passing them either inland or along the coast (though they can bypass the coastal city by getting back on the boat). The idea here is to lessen the AI weakness of ignoring armies completely and allowing the human massive pillaging freedom. If the AI didn't have this weakness, you could pillage coastal resources by using boats, but inland resources would require fighting your way there. If the enemy builds cities between a stack and our front lines, the stack can bypass the new city to head home or head deeper into enemy territory provided that they don't bypass any cities without capturing/razing). Always War Rules: You may only trade when you first meet a civilization, and must declare war on the same turn after trading is complete. If you see a new AI unit, you must make contact & declare war that turn. Absolutely no turn based trade (such as GPT) allowed. If you see a new face on F4, you are obligated to declare war that turn (after trading). Players must declare war if they are exploring and see AI units, but are not required to actually attack the units they come in contact with. No peace treaties, ever. You may check F4 as often as you like to spy on the AI's tech, resources, luxuries & city count. Discuss any move that seems exploitive before doing it with the team. Although there are not too many exploits available in AW, we’ll follow the forbidden blatant exploits banned by GOTM and RBCiv such as no "Free Wealth". Other normal game exploits such as "Baiting the AI" with an empty city to create a kill zone are an AW tradition and are allowed. Also, you ARE allowed to initially keep a city, move a settler to the same spot as the city, and then abandon and immediately resettle. This is considered an exploit in RBCiv rules, but is okay in our AW games. In addition if you need to build a city one square deeper into enemy territory just to move borders to steal a resource, go for it. We however cannot then disband the city just founded city on the same turn. We may keep or raze cities, and can keep slaves. Optionally, I wouldn't mind getting rid of the first round trading. It never really helps much and seems a bit artificial to be able to trade the first round. We can dicuss this more or play the more standard rules. SG Stuff You have 24 hours for an "I got it" and 48 to play. If you need a one or two day extension, then mention this before the 48 hours are up. Players can work out skips between themselves, just post a message to the thread. If you can't play within 96 hours total, switch places or ask for a skip. A player plays 10 turns normally, but can choose to play 5 instead if their time is limited or when the turns get longer during the latter part of the game. Roster: Greebley Handy900 ThERat Open Open Open I will post the save when we have enough players to start. __________________ Playing in: LK147 - World map, China, Rat45 - CCM limted city Diety Total Completed SGs: over 160

Apr 23, 2005, 08:34 PM	#3
Greebley Deity Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston Area, MA Posts: 8,622	Totally agree. What do ppl think? Shall we ditch the trading? I think one can win without it. __________________ Playing in: LK147 - World map, China, Rat45 - CCM limted city Diety Total Completed SGs: over 160

Apr 23, 2005, 09:57 PM	#5
ThERat Deity Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: City of one angel Posts: 10,514	checking in, agree with no trades ever. btw, i could play today (s'pore it's sunday noon now) __________________ Civ 3: SG wins : among others SID, DG OCC, AWS small, 3 AWD (standard map), AWE/20k, 5CC AWE, RaR: SID Civ4 SG highlights: 4 immortal wins (UN/3 dom), AWE Rome, AWP hub

Apr 24, 2005, 12:38 AM	#7
Greebley Deity Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston Area, MA Posts: 8,622	Welcome Bed_head Note that you can choose between 5 or 10 turns. I would like to wait one more day to see if we can get a fifth. I prefer 5 if we can get it. __________________ Playing in: LK147 - World map, China, Rat45 - CCM limted city Diety Total Completed SGs: over 160

Apr 24, 2005, 03:10 PM	#8
Northern Pike Deity Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,178	Greebley, thanks for the invitation. I'd be glad to join. The more consistent no-trades policy is fine with me. __________________ The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable. --Pogo

Apr 24, 2005, 12:19 AM	#6
bed_head7 Deity Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2,494	I guess I'll join, despite what I said in the other thread. I should be able to find the time for one more game.

Apr 24, 2005, 05:30 PM	#9
Greebley Deity Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston Area, MA Posts: 8,622	Welcome NP I am glad you could join us. It looks like we are ready to start. If someone else wants to play then speak up. 6 players is also fine. The order is as best I remember the order of joining. Greebley Handy900 -Up ThERat - On Deck Bead_head7 Northern Pike Open Here is the save. We will go with the no trade rule. __________________ Playing in: LK147 - World map, China, Rat45 - CCM limted city Diety Total Completed SGs: over 160 Last edited by Greebley; Nov 11, 2005 at 10:14 PM.

Apr 24, 2005, 06:41 PM	#11
handy900 Deity Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 2,411	Pre turn Can’t decide if we should switch to spear, or send the settler out with the lone spear we have and build a new one after that. I’ll stay with the settler and hope we don’t get surprised by an early visit from a near by neighbor. Turn 1 2950 Mine done start road. Turn 2 2900 - Turn 3 2850 Settler – Spear (4) Settler moving to the hill on the River N N NE of the capital. Turn 4 2800 - Turn 5 2750 - Turn 6 2710 River Hills founded and walls started. I’m hoping this walled city will shield our capital and allow us to get a good core down. There is no river crossing between the capital and River Hills. IBT Capital Spear – spear due in 3. We are size 5 and grow in 4. Turn 7 2670 - Turn 8 2630 - Turn 9 2590 - IBT Spear - Settler Turn 10 2550 Please feel free to switch the build, but maybe we can get away with an unguarded city to the south. A granary would not be a bad build either. I thought about starting one, but decided a second city was better for the unit support. Dot map with ideas below. I don’t like to build next to the Smokey Mountains. ~~What are the barbs set to?~~ Sedentary. Naked settler to the south is definitly a possibility. Substitute Gold Hill in the south for the red dot is a possibility since it will pull in a BG. But leaving Red Dot where it is allows for a city SW of the gold hill to be on the coast and grab the BG. Red Dot is probably better. __________________ Theodora's Always War Sid Excellent Adventure \|AWD Pangaea is possible\|Combat Calc.\|A few AW SG's] Last edited by handy900; Apr 24, 2005 at 06:51 PM.

Apr 24, 2005, 07:44 PM	#12
ThERat Deity Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: City of one angel Posts: 10,514	got it, tonight, think settling red dot first is a good choice. so far no contacts? what's the tech situation like? still doing WC? __________________ Civ 3: SG wins : among others SID, DG OCC, AWS small, 3 AWD (standard map), AWE/20k, 5CC AWE, RaR: SID Civ4 SG highlights: 4 immortal wins (UN/3 dom), AWE Rome, AWP hub

Apr 24, 2005, 08:52 PM	#14
Greebley Deity Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Boston Area, MA Posts: 8,622	Looks good Handy. Red dot seems best given we don't have a lot of defenders yet. I think I would go for Iron Working next and explore a little if we don't see iron (check all the lands closest to us). Greebley Handy900 - Played ThERat - Up Bead_head7 - On Deck Northern Pike (there is room for another is someone wants to join). __________________ Playing in: LK147 - World map, China, Rat45 - CCM limted city Diety Total Completed SGs: over 160

Apr 24, 2005, 08:55 PM	#15
ThERat Deity Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: City of one angel Posts: 10,514	I was also thinking of IW next. given the magic, iron might just hide under that 'pink' dot. hope I am right. __________________ Civ 3: SG wins : among others SID, DG OCC, AWS small, 3 AWD (standard map), AWE/20k, 5CC AWE, RaR: SID Civ4 SG highlights: 4 immortal wins (UN/3 dom), AWE Rome, AWP hub

Apr 24, 2005, 09:12 PM	#17
ThERat Deity Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: City of one angel Posts: 10,514	given this Team, is it possible to lose? well, I might just be the weak link here anyway agree with LK settler -> red dot, worker next, then spear __________________ Civ 3: SG wins : among others SID, DG OCC, AWS small, 3 AWD (standard map), AWE/20k, 5CC AWE, RaR: SID Civ4 SG highlights: 4 immortal wins (UN/3 dom), AWE Rome, AWP hub

Apr 24, 2005, 10:05 PM	#20
Northern Pike Deity Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 5,178	Red Dot is a very limited site which looks unlikely to support anything better than a fishing village. We should found on it eventually, but a city without BG seems a waste of our settlers right now. The real prize to the south is the site SW of the gold hill noted by Handy, and I'd rather settle towards it by way of Blue Dot. __________________ The truth will set you free, but first it will make you miserable. --Pogo

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