T3 External Consulate - Peace Treaty with the Dutch: the Republic, Monotheism, or ?

We are at war with the Dutch and will remain so until we reduce them to the cities of Leiden and/or Delft. In previous discussion we’ve agreed that before we make peace that at a minimum the Dutch must give us the Republic in a peace treaty.

The Dutch now have the Republic, Monotheism, and Monarchy and will give us any one but not a combination of any two techs (they’ll also give us some gold). It’s possible that by the time we’ve reduced them to Leiden and/or Delft that they will also have discovered Feudalism. Presumably if we obtain Feudalism (or just Monotheism) we will be able to trade for the Republic and/or Monarchy. Neither the Republic nor Monotheism is a monopoly tech. Our original goal was the Republic: but because the war has taken longer than we expected, we now question whether this is all we should settle for.

The External Consulate anticipates that by the time we’re ready to make peace, the Dutch will probably give us both the Republic and Monotheism. We also anticipate that if they have Feudalism, that’s the only tech we will be able to get. If we can’t get both the Republic and Monotheism, should we take Monotheism and plan to trade for the Republic with another civ? And if we can get Feudalism, should we take it and plan to trade for the Republic and Monotheism?

Basically, the question is should we take the tech that is the most valuable and plan to use it to trade with other civs for techs we lack (including the Republic)? Or should we make sure we get the Republic in a peace treaty?

I'll let the discussion develop before we poll this. My preference is to take the most valuable tech(s).

I'd rather pick feudalism and trade it for republic.

As far as goverments go, feudalism stinks, but the pikemen/knights/medievil infantry make it the better option. We should be able to trade it for Republic plus some other stuff,

why not both??? The Dutch will be very scared when it comes to negoation time, if they wont surrender unconditionally i say fight on.

Feudalism is more expensive than republic, and if it is a monopoly that should make the price difference even bigger. So I would say: go for feudalism, and try to trade for the Republic, Monotheism, Monarchy. This is of course assuming that the Dutch will get Feudalism.

Feudalism will give inmediate benefits (better units). Republic will not be needed until we are ready to switch governments.

Base cost of the techs according to the editor:
Monotheism and Engineering: 36
Feudalism: 32
Republic: 28
Monarchy: 24

The base costs are one aspect, how many other civs have the tech is another. Monotheism is currently known by 2 and will probably be known by more soon. Lots of them know Republic now. Hopefully if we can get Fuedalism it will be little known and we can trade it for a good profit.

I would go for Feudalism. To trade it around.

Feudalism sounds like a good deal. If we can get more, thats even better.

Feudalism also has a higher trading cost because it provides a government. If we can get it, we should make a good profit from it.

I'm not sure how we can assume they will have Feudalism. If they do, then we can take whichever has the highest value to the other AI. This will basically boil down to which tech is known by the fewest opponents. Not that I would sell either Mono or Feud. Knights are something I would rather keep the AI away from for a little while.

Feudalism will also give us the opportunity to use our leader and sell our barracks. The sooner we do this, the more we save obviously. A minor consideration of course.

Has anyone noticed that when negotiating peace an AI will give you the earth on a particular turn, but a few turns (and captured cities) later won't give you the time of day? If we take too much from the Netherlands I think that we might get less in the peace treaty. Not that I care. Land is more important than techs.

mad-bax said:

Feudalism will also give us the opportunity to use our leader and sell our barracks. The sooner we do this, the more we save obviously. A minor consideration of course.

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This would be nice, then we might get an MGL vs India.

mad-bax said:

I'm not sure how we can assume they will have Feudalism.

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There is absolutely no assurance that the Dutch will have Feudalism when we’re ready to strike a peace treaty. I’m just trying to anticipate future situations here so we can formulate our strategy and won’t have to stop a future chat to decide our course of action should we be ready to make peace and find the Dutch have Feudalism and will exchange it for a peace treaty.

It looks like the consensus in this thread is to go for the highest available tech, even if we don’t get the Republic in a peace treaty (although I’m hoping we will). That’s what I’ll poll. In the event we acquire Monotheism but not the Republic, it’s probably up to the Consul for Resources and Technology Policy to decide (and poll) whether we actually want to trade Monotheism for the Republic.

It’s highly unlikely that we’ll be ready to make peace with the Dutch in today’s turnchat, so I’ll wait until that’s finished so we can assess the situation before I post the poll.

Poll is now open HERE .

I'd use Sir Isaac Newton to rush the Great Library and that way The Repubic comes rolling in at no further cost. We can revolt immediately, if desired.
And that has the benefit that (since a SGL blocks any MGL's) we can get MGL's for armies and have a stronger military. Furthermore; we will not have to spend anything on research if we don't want to because the Great Lib will keep them rolling in till Education.