GOTm 43: First Spoiler (Entering middle ages)

ainwood · May 21, 2005

GOTM 43: First Spoiler

To qualify for this spoiler you must have reached the middle ages. You must have contacts with all other civs on the starting continent, and on any other landmasses that can be reached by coastal waters: Ie - total contacts = 5.

Please do not discuss any aspects relating to continents not reachable via coastal travel - this includes minimaps of the locations of other continents.

If other civs settle on the home continent, they may be discussed, but their home continent may not.

And once you've finished posting your spoiler, be sure to head on over and help-out the conquest-class players in the Hunting Tips thread.

Capt Buttkick · May 21, 2005

I entered the MA during the QSC, but no MA techs were available by 1000 so here's my QSC:

I listened to the advice in the pregame discussion about there being FP Wheat S SE SE of the starting position. Kyoto was founded in 3900 SE SE of the start. I considered briefly doing my normal routine of an early granary in food high starts, but decided this game was different because of Deity difficulty level and small expansion possibilities. I therefore decided my first settler would settle by the second FP Wheat and the second settler would go to the starting position, making 3 cities with high food and, initially, low shields. Before jumping the capital, that would mean RCP1 at 2. If the start got really cramped, at least I'd get like 5 cities out lol.
I started max research on pots, because I wanted to have it by the time I had the two first cities in place, in case I needed granaries then. I never built granaries in this QSC...
At the end of the QSC, Monarchy is available, but too few have it so it's too expensive. No MA techs have been discovered.

Further city placements, with founding dates and relative distance from Kyoto:
Osaka, in 2950, 2SE of Kyoto.
Tokyo, 2630, 2NW
Edo, 2270, 3N
Satsuma, 2270, 3S
Kagoshima, 1950, 2NE 2E
Nara, 1870, 3NW W
Nagoya, 1650, 2N 4NE
Izumo, 1400, 5N
Nagasaki, 1275, 4SE
Yokohama, 1275, 3W
Shimonoseki, 1175, 3N 3NW
Matsuyama, 1075, 5S

Diplomacy:
Korea, met in 2670, got Myst.
Mongols, 2190, got WC.
Ottos and China, 2150, got Masonry, HBR and IW. in deals.
Persia, 1790
All other civs, 1550, traded for Alpha, Writing, Philosophy, CoL, MM, Maths, Poly. Got pretty good maps.
Traded into the MA (Currency + Constr) in 1325.

Own research:
Pottery at max, Alpha at min, but cut short in 1550, 2 turns before completion due to us meeting the other continent.

1000 BC: 13 cities and 367 Firaxis points.

Edit: Map:

Kuningas · May 21, 2005

predator
the Ancient Ages 4000bc - 650bc

Deity and I'm going for domination. The fastest approach to win this is to do not self research and start military build up asap. AI shall research techs and found towns to me. For this kind of game I want tight RCP, rings at distance 3 and 6. A bunch of workers and mine improve tiles. In 1000bc I have 17 workers and initial attack force of 16 swords. The Mongols have settled three towns at my isthmus. They are asking for troubles.

Towns and production
4000bc - Kyoto: 2x warrior -> Granary ->warrior ->Settlers
2430bc - Osaka: Worker -> Granary -> Workers -> barrack ->warriors
2270bc - Tokyo: Workers
1990bc - Edo: Barrack ->warriors
1830bc - Satsuma: Barrack ->warriors
1650bc - Kagoshima: 2x worker ->Barrack ->warriors
1550bc - Nara: Barrack ->warriors
1425bc - Nagoya: Barrack ->warriors
1375bc - Izumo: worker ->barrack
1225bc - Nagasaki: temple
1175bc - Yokohama: Barrack ->chariots (switch all warrior production to chariots)
1025bc - Shimonoseki: temple
950bc - Captured the Mongol city Darhan
900bc - Captured the Mongol city Hovd
875bc - Captured the Mongol city Baruun-Urt
825bc - Matsuyama

Contacts
3400bc - Mongols
2630bc - Koreans
2590bc - Chinese
2430bc - Ottomans
no date- Persia
670bc - rest

Techs
One 40 turn project Mathematics. Remaining techs traded for gpt deals.

3400bc Trade for Pottery
2430bc Trade for Alphabet, The Wheel, Masonry, Ceremonial Burial, Bronze Working, Warrior Code.
1400bc Trade 9gpt to Ottomans for Iron Working. IBT the Ottomans demand 38 gold. I tell them buzz off, they declare war on us

1150bc Mathematics
800bc Trade for Writing, Literature, Mysticism, Polytheism, Philosophy, Code of Laws
670bc Trade for Currency, Construction, Map Making, Horseback Riding

In 650bc Enter the Middle Ages, still in Despotism.

qsc stats & screenshot
17 workers
5 warriors (all veteran)
11 swords
4 chariots

2 granaries
5 barracks
12 towns
32 citizens

all 1st level techs + IW, Mathematics
329 gold
+33 gpt slider 8.0.2
score 331

Megalou · May 21, 2005

Predator

Overall
The main difference between my game and Kuningas' is, apart from the progress, that I went for a mixture of horsemen and warriors upgraded to swordsmen. I also did not save as much money on research but went 100% (if affortable) on The Wheel, Mysticism, Polytheism, Monarchy.

I could trade for Construction and literature and then stopped research before Currency.

In 750 BC two keshiks enter my territory looking very suspicious indeed. They can't be after barb camps because there are no tiles that aren't within or next to a border so no new camp can pop up. I buy Currency from the Mongols for 21 gpt then ask them to leave. (They have no Middle Age techs or money.) They declare and we leave the Ancient age hanging on a cliff.

I regret now building those shield-expensive horsemen and not paying attention to the modified keshiks. But all is not lost. I have 6 horsemen in Satsuma, 1 swordsman in Nagasaki and good production in the northern towns.

Start
I stepped 1 tile SE to get the FP wheat within range and founded Kyoto. Perhaps 1 tile South had been better, but wouldn't founding on flood plain mean a high risk of disease? A four turn settler factory was easily established without the bonus grassland I settled on. there was lots of micromanaging to earn some gold instead of wasting shields.

Timeline

Spoiler :

QSC stats
12 towns at RCP 5 & 8
29 citizens
1 settler
12 workers
6 warriors
1 swordsman
4 horsemen
8 temples
1 granary
1 harbour
3 barracks
Missing currency, construction, republic, monarchy (11 turns)
5 contacts, no embassies
98 gold, -14 gpt.
Only 2 wines connected=ridiculous

Shillen · May 21, 2005

Open

Well originally planned on going for conquest but that may change still. I haven't played in 2 years (I did one test game up to the middle ages just to make sure I could hold water before I started this game) so I'm extremely rusty and missing bits of knowledge here and there that I once had.

I founded in the start position after staring at my settler for about 15 minutes. I really hate to waste a turn by moving and the start position looked good enough to me. I made 3 warriors, sending 1 south, 1 north, and 1 for mp. Found the Koreans and Mongols. The Mongols had much fewer techs than the Koreans so I figured the Mongols were by themselves to the south and stopped exploring that way. My northern warrior kept trudging north while my southern warrior turned back and explored my general vicinity for city-locations.

Now back when I played 2 years ago the way corruption worked wasn't an exact science like it is now and the whole concept of RCP never existed. Unfortunately I didn't read about that strategy until after I had played through the AA in this game, so my city placement isn't very good at all. My second city was founded by the cow to the north to be my military factory. My third city was founded to the south by the wheats for workers/settlers. Kyoto couldn't quite manage a 4 turn settler factory (1 shield short unless I spent the turns to mine the goat which I wasn't about to do right away), but it was good enough.

I started research on Mysticism at 100% first. Traded the Wheel to mongols and Korea getting Pottery, Bronze Working, and some gold in return. Researching Mysticism netted me Alphabet and Iron Working. Next I researched Polytheism at 10%. I did not manage to meet any other civs until Writing was learned by Korea. My northern warrior was actually in sight of Ottoman borders when Korea sold my contact to them. The AI being smart for once, go figure. No one had contact with the Mongols for some reason so I got some value out of that. Learned all contacts except Persia as I couldn't afford to pay for Persia and I knew where they were already.

I was the first civ to Polytheism even on min research and managed to trade for all techs except Construction and Currency. In 1275 the Russians land on my continent with a spearman/settler pair. They found a city there. I trade for Literature and contact with all other civ's. I withhold contact and map information from all the civs on our continent. In 1200BC I manage to trade for Currency and Construction and we enter the Middle Ages. No Middle Age techs learned by 1000BC so I can post my QSC results.

11 cities, pop 35
All AA techs except Republic and Monarchy. Researching Monarchy, due in 13 turns.
1 horseman, 3 spearmen, 9 warriors, 7 workers
1 granary, 4 barracks, 2 libraries, 3 temples
Embassies with all home continent civs.
175g, -10gpt (0.8.2)
score: 392

Don't ask me why I built so many temples. So far I was pretty happy with my progress. Here's my map:

edit: Forgot to mention that I did pop an eqWorker from a goody hut. Even with that worker I only had 7 compared to you guys having way more. Guess I'll have to work on building more workers.

Obormot · May 21, 2005

Predator, civ1.29

I settled 1S from the start, cause some people said that there was wheat on the FP to the SE. I disn't see anything, but the wheat was indeed there.

I've built 2 warriors, one went N, the other S. Met Mongols and Koreans and found that we are connected by narrow strips of land which can be blocked by warriors. Later i produced some more warriors and blocked korean and mongol settlers (hope it's not a banned exploit). Mongols and Persians transported a settler each on the galleys though. The persian city was recently destroyed by the koreans, thanks for that.

I researched pottery at max first to get granaries, then went for Literature and GL, cause it was impossible (at least with my skill) to keep up with the tech pace without anything to start with. Another possibility was to take techs from peace treaties, but i didn't go for that, i'll attempt a peacefull victory this time. Some important techs i purchased for gpt.

Kyoto became a 4-turn SF (twice interrupted by disease), and Osaka became a 2-turn WF. Tokyo started a GL prebuild immidiately. Other cities built warriors, barracks, and some temples.

In 550 BC the GL was complete, and in 530 BC i entered the MA, stealing all AA techs including Republic and Monarchy and also Monotheism. Persians also have Feudalism. After trading techs to backward civs, i also got the map of our continent and that thing in the middle. I don't know where the other continent(s) is, and didn't meet any civs from there yet.

klarius · May 21, 2005

Predator

Something did stick out of the fog 2se s. I anyways didn't like to settle on the nice wine hill, so settler and worker s.
Next turn the worker climbed the mountain se and uncovered many nice tiles. Settler goes east to settle.
Kyoto builds only one warrior, a settler for the worker pump Osaka then granary.
Science starts with pottery @ 100%. With slow scouting you never know when you can get it.

cities
3900BC Kyoto
3150BC Osaka
2430BC Tokyo
2270BC Edo
2110BC Satsuma
1910BC Kagoshima
1790BC Nara
1650BC Nagoya
1525BC Izumo
1475BC Nagasaki
1350BC Yokohama
1250BC Shimonoseki
1150BC Matsuyama
1000BC Sapporo and Hakodate

15 cities, 42 pop
2 granaries, 4 barracks, 9 temples :eek:

, 2 harbors
1 settler, 15 workers, 1 slave, 1 galley
5 horsemen, 3 warriors (will soon go down to 1 elite - no swords in this game)
all AA techs except poly and the governments

science
3100 pottery researched
2900 CB from hut
2590 trade for alphabet, BW, Masonry, TW, WC - try Math min gambit
1750 trade for HBR, IW, math, myst, writing - research to literature
1325 trade for MM and philosophy
1075 literature researched - trade for CoL, construction, currency
925 trade polytheism one turn before research would have completed - enter MA

diplomacy
3300 meet Mongols, don't trade; pottery is much more expensive than researching
2630 meet Korea and Ottomans
1910 meet Persia
1750 meet China, make embassies in Mongolia and Korea
1175 trade wine for gems with China (no good idea)
975 second suicide galley finds somebody off continent; some trading and we know everybody and everything

No war for us up to now.
But the trade reputation is already shot :cry:

. Mongols pillaged a road in China interrupting the wine delivery.
A typical AI war - neither Mongols nor China made any progress.

Goal is samurai -> cav -> :hammer:

MeteorPunch · May 21, 2005

Open

I've never won or even played on diety, so I'm going for survival. The only strategy that seemed obvious to me is to go for the Great Library. I had a large lead on the AI by prebuilding it, but was beaten by 14 turns by Persia in 550bc. This will lead to an entertaining MA spoiler

.

Mistakes I made:
1. lethargic expansion. Given the start location, 7 towns is pathetic.
2. Great Library prebuild should be done in a city, not a town stuck at pop 6.

1000bc stats
7 towns
22 population
4 workers, 6 warriors, 4 spearman
496 gold
all contacts known
11 techs, researching Literature

1st turn of MA:

solenoozerec · May 22, 2005

Class: Open.
Goal: Never won on deity before, so the goal is whatever
4000BC-950BC
##############################################################
I settled at the spot and started research mysticism on maximum.

Good stuff:
I managed to exploit The wheel monopoly, also to be the first who researched mysticism and poly.
Other good thing is that I knew all civs before 1000BC.

Bad stuff:
I screwed opening turns a bit. I guess I was thinking too much and trick myself into micromanagement mistakes.

This is the map at 1000BC.

We entered MA in 950BC with 5 turns before researching Monarchy.
The plan is to start war on Mongols as soon as we will become Monarchy and to try to get China as an ally.

@Capt Buttkick English cities in 1000BC? :wow:

Edit: @Shilen - Russians? :wow:

cas · May 22, 2005

Open class. Thought I would play for fun. I can win at Emporer sometimes, but Deity is just frustrating and annoying to me.

Tried to funnel all production to expansion, military, workers. Also built some temples to help grab land, but maybe that was a foolish move. Sent warriors north and south to explore. North one was slaughtered by barbarians. South one managed to meet mongols and then was hemmed in by Mongol borders. So all contacts up to 1050 bc were initiated by other civs and I couldn't trade much. Researched mysticism, poly, monarchy at minimums. Everyone else beat me to those techs...trade value was nil. Caught up briefly in 1050 bc when England landed and I traded contacts for everyone's tech & gold. That lasted maybe 5 turns.

At the beginning of my MA around 450bc, the game is hopeless. My map looks similar to Shillen. I have about 10 core cities, but the comp is already 50% of the way through the MA and my swordsman are quickly slaughtered by superior Mongol and/or Korean forces. If I do manage to capture a city, it runs high risk of culture flip even with me starving/building workers to decrease the population. China is the only civ I've been able to ally with...both against the Mongols and Korea. It really didn't help...and no one else would ally with me no matter how much gold I offered.

Oh, well. Hopefully the Conquests GOTM coming up will not be such a high diff level. See ya next month.

cas

Capt Buttkick · May 22, 2005

solenoozerec said:
@Capt Buttkick English cities in 1000BC?

Yeh, guess who's got the GLight...
Wonder pace, in addition to tech pace, was just frantic in my game. Just as well that I didn't try to buy any. I had a huge amount of luck in this game when I could trade all those AA techs in one turn. After that I've been trying to start wars and keep them going on the other continent so they'd slow down. I really don't know whether to :lol:

or

What's sure is, if I can keep up with research til cavs, I'm gonna have a pretty nice finish date

Redbad · May 22, 2005

Ptw open, thinking of 20K

Settled in place, but saw that 2000warrior was right about the wheat. Set research max on pottery. In 3150BC pottery was researched and we meet the Mongols. Were able to trade the wheel for warrior code + 10. Research min on horseback riding.

In 1700BC 3 Mongol warriors approach Japan. :mischief:

Its time to do some trading. So in 1650BC:
Buy bronze working for wm + 59 from Persia
Buy masonry for wm + 58 from China
Buy alphabet for wm + 69 from Korea
Buy mysticism for wm + 54 from Ottomans
Buy wrting for 67 + 7 gpt from Mongols
In 1625BC the Mongol warriors leave.

Next turn, with one turn research left on horseback riding, we turn off research.

In 1175BC were ready for some action and dow Korea. Research is switched on again for the last turn on horseback riding. Next turn research is switched off again and were able to ally the Mongols against Korea for 170 + 18 gpt.

Heres the 1000BC pic and stats.

9 towns, 21 pop
1 settler, 10 workers, 4 warriors, 9 chariots, 2 horsemen
1 granary, 1 temple, 5 barracks
first tier techs plus writing, mysticism and horseback riding

In 950BC Korea allies Persia against Mongols and in the same interturn Persia allies China against the Mongols. The fact that Im fighting on the Mongol side in the war doesnt seem to be of any interest. They dont bother to dow me. :blush:

In 825BC Tojo has risen from the battlefield and he builds the FP in Izumo two turns later.
In 800BC Persia and the Mongols make peace, and in 750BC Korea and the Mongols make peace. So its high time we stop fighting too. The Koreans accept peace for 10 gpt.

But peace wont get us an empire nor victory. So in 670BC we dow our good friends the Mongols

and capture Darhan in 630BC. To discourage any alliances we make some trades:
Buy iron working for wm + 71 + 2 gpt from Persia
Buy literature for 6 gpt from Ottomans
Buy code of law for 9 gpt from X1-civ
Buy philosophy for 5 gpt from China
Buy mathematics for wm + 6 gpt X2-civ
Sell wm a couple of times netting us tms plus 23 gold
In 550BC we manage to capture Kazan, but the Mongols now deploy pikes. We cant continu fighting with our horses, so peace is declared getting us republic and tm. We revolt.

Now its time to get out of the Ancient Ages:
530BC buy construction for wm + 29 + 14 gpt from X3-civ
430BC trade horse + wine for dyes, tm, 34 + 2 gpt with Ottomans
390BC buy mapmaking for wm + 26 + 8 gpt from korea
330BC buy polytheism for wm + 25 + 8 gpt from X4-civ
enter the Middle Ages

Heres the 330BC pic and stats.

15 towns, 62 pop
15 workers, 20 horsemen
1 granary, 2 temples, 9 barracks, 2 libraries and FP
most cities are building libraries.

Concerning my 20K:
Ive got a palace, temple and library for culture in Kyoto. All AA-wonders are build by the AI. Also in 330BC 10 civs are building Sun Tzu, 5 are building Leonardos and 5 are building the Sistine Chapel. Itll be a stretch to make some sort of 20K. :rolleyes:

Nata · May 22, 2005

PTW Open.
Goal#1: get Med. resourses to work. Goal achieved - hurray! PTW is really superior to Vanilla, as could never get them work in Vanilla. And those resourses are really neat, thanks Mad-bax.

Goal#2 - survive and maybe win. Still problematic.

4000BC - settle in place. Worker N, road, mine.

F10 tells we are the only Religious folks out there. 2 monopolies - v.g.
Research Mysticism. V.bad move as got stuck w/o Pottery forever.
Build warrior, warrior, warrior. And Barracks

(see above).
3550BC - W-2 goes South. Sees 2 Wheat! Then Lambs and 2nd Goat! Where was our adventure spirit in 4000BC.

3400BC - W-3 goes North, sees Cow and Horses.
3300BC - W-2 meets Persian SCOUT. OK, so they are not the one. Get WC+25g for Wheel. They also know BW and Masonry.
3050BC - W-2 meets Mongols, we get Pottery (finally), BW & 5g for Wheel. Then trade Masonry from Persia for Pottery & 25g.
2900BC - Osaka founded on a Wheat. That was wicked. 2 Wheet and Mountains or other side of the river or too far. Again wished had moved South. Both cities are building Granaries.
2510BC - Korea contacts us, gets contact with Mongols for contact with China, and sells our contact to Otto. In a round of trading we get IW and Alphabet and are plus 100g.
2390BC - 3 Mongol warriors & 1 archer are closing on OSaka. D'oh! Change Granary in Kioto to Archer with no loss of shield, get W-2 back into Osaka.
2350BC - Research Mysticism. Trade Writing from Korea and HBR from Persia for it, with some loss of money. Start on Poly at min.
2270BC - embassies with Mongols and Persia. Looks like Mongol Army (now 4 warriors and an archer) are heading not to us but North to Korea.
1990BC - Mongols were heading for a Barb village. D'oh.
1450BC - Mongols keep trekking back and forth through us in ever increasing numbers. Lost nerve and switched Granary to Archer AGAIN, with loss of 18 shields. V.bad move as they were after Barb camps again. Buy MM from Mongols for WM and 280g.
1100BC - MA started somewhere. We reserch Poly and trade it for Math and Philosophy from the most backward China and Otto.

QSC stats - forgot to save, but stats pathetic. 975BC save shows 9 towns, 19 pop, 1 settler, 5 workers, 5 warriors, 4 archers and 5 swordsmen. 2 granaries, 2 temple and 1 rax. That's what you get for being a coward.

975BC - England speaks to us, then Russia, Vikings and Carthage do the same.
925BC - Germany contacts us, they are almost as backwards as us. Meanwhile prepare Swords rush on Mongols.
710BC - Dow Mongols, destroy the town on our Iron. Then get stuck and agree for Peace for some money form them.
310BC - Bought Currency from China for 300g/1gpt.
270 BC - Bought Construction from Korea for Wines, WM & 80g. Finally crawled into MA.
Still researching Monarchy as nowhere near being able to buy it, or Republic.

At this time other guys are half thru MA already, with Persians showing off Cavalry. I think Persia entered IA in BC. And what a location they had! They could see everybody instantly, and nobody could get to them! I wish I had their place, but tough luck.

And what a clever map, thank you again Mad-bax!

Resume: pathetic performance.
That business with Arhers instead of Granaries - shameful, not worthy of a Samurai. And another thing. How come I played maybe 100 PTW/Vanilla games, but only 1 C3C(COTM12) managed to completely wipe RCP concept from my mind. Amazing what difference it makes if you ignore RCP: my most-southern town on the picture below was completely corrupt even in Monarchy.
Outlook for MA is dire, but suffice to say that if there would be 3rd spoiler, I'll still post in it.

Attached is 975BC save.

zamint3 · May 22, 2005

ainwood said:
If other civs settle on the home continent, they may be discussed, but their home continent may not.

The Russians settled on our continent in 1225 bc and I met the English in the same IBT (but never saw any English troops). The Russians have The Lighthouse but they did not travel by a safe route! :confused:

(I do have their world map, but I don't think it's OK to post it here!)

Thay must have used a suicide galley, but I didn't think the AI did that?? :confused:

DaveMcW · May 22, 2005

Maybe the Russians got expelled from another civ's territory and the closest coast was on your continent?

Redtooth · May 22, 2005

well, my AA was pretty uneventful, besides setting the stage for how the rest of the game would go. I went scouting immediatly, and managed to secure some of the early techs. I took a nice little chunk of land, building cities very close in order to maximize what little part of the world I had. Everything seemed alright for a 1000 years.

Then, it seems as if the AI sprung away from me in almost a turn. Before I knew what had happened, the entire AI had made it to the MA and I had barely half the techs. My futile attempts at trade ended with an emtpy treasury with little to show for it. Somehow, I managed to creep into the MA around 490 BC.

The problem is, a few turns prior, China declared on me, and I noticed they already have cavalry. I allied with Mongols for a buffer, but I don't know how long that will last. I can't even build pikes yet...

It seems as if everyone has nearly finished the MA, while I have just entered it. Persia is insanely rich, leads in tech, and has almost every AA and MA wonder. Just surviving looks is looking hard now...

Capt Buttkick · May 22, 2005

Zamint: Differential naval movement is on. Could that be it?

zamint3 · May 23, 2005

Capt Buttkick said:
Zamint: Differential naval movement is on. Could that be it?

You got it, Capt! Thanks. :goodjob:

WarDance · May 23, 2005

Yikes! This is my first ever Deity game and first GOTM and it has really gone to hell in a handbasket! I am a solid emperor player and can win with just about any start except jungle or tundra, but have been afraid to even try Deity until now.

I settled in place and went for mysticism and poly hoping for trades. Met the Mongols and Koreans first of course and gifted them gpt to try and keep them off me. The Mongols loved that and I didn't have trouble with them. Made it to poly and was able to trade for iron, horseback riding, and writing. Met some other civs around that time too.

In 2150 I had 2 towns and 1 settler out, and Korea took my capital! I was able to hold them off from my other 2 towns after building walls and spears, but for peace they wanted all my gold and all my gpt. I continued to hold out and met all the other civs... was unable to get anyone to ally against Korea. Everyone was in the MA by about 750BC and I ended up calling it a day. It doesn't seem like any fun at all continuing this one. Doubtful I'd even get a spoon if I get crushed because I've been holding out for a fair amount of time against the Korean onslaught.

Anyway, I'm thinking of re-playing it just for fun but obviously it won't be submitted. This time I'm building walls and spears early on.

Shillen · May 23, 2005

Tough break WarDance. It's pretty impossible to focus on expansion and build a strong military as well. If the AI decides to declare war in the first 40 turns or so on deity it's very hard to survive, especially if they use a sneak attack. There were any number of times the Mongols were moving large stacks of units through my territory with undefended cities and all they had to do was declare war and it would have ruined my game. I let them be figuring they were going to kill barbs and thankfully that's what they were doing. But yeah chalk it up to bad luck.

GOTm 43: First Spoiler (Entering middle ages)

Consultant.

Emperor

Deity

Thez worlds are not enuf

Deity

Old warmonger

Attachments

... !

#WINNING

Stranger

Emperor

Emperor

should have shaved

Warlord

Attachments

Emperor

Attachments

Deity

Chieftain

Emperor

Emperor

Prince

Deity

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