Anti Americanism - What is it ?

I've noticed from some members that as soon as something critical is said about anything related to the United States some members respond by calling it "Anti-American". In some cases this seems justified, but in most cases it seems absurd and an exaggeration to me. But what do I know; I have no view of what Anti-Americanism is. But I want to learn.

Examples are superfluous Edit: many in OT. I recall the thread about the question of the American Presidential elections being overseen by the international community through international observers. I recall the threads about Iraq. I recall the threads about Guantanamo bay. A recent thread where it was stated is this Amnesty International thread.

What is Anti Americanism ?

I'll post some statements (not neccesarily my opinions) of which I'd like to know if you consider them to be Anti-American. I'd also like to know other statements you consider to be Anti-American; please post them (but don't flame or troll !!! - that's not the purpose of this thread !!).

Is saying ... Anti American ?

• The war in Iraq is bad
• Guantanamo bay is a Gulag
• The American government are doing a bad job
• Americans are egoistic
• The American dollar is a useless currency
• Mc Donald's sucks
• Only backwards countries still practice the death-penalty
• Fools love guns
• I hate Idaho
• The USA ranks in the top 3 of most corrupt nations on earth
• I prefer Japanese cars over American cars
• Ronald Reagan was a bad president
• Lincoln was ugly
• I don't like Hollywood movies
• I'd kill any American I see
• The killing of Americans in Iraq are done by heroes
• Bush is not the smartest world-leader
• Gay-marriage is good, forbidding it is undesirable
• Bush is stupid
• I hate America
• I hate Americans
• I hate American products

I repeat: No flames or trolls please, the purpose of this thread is to know what is considered to be an Anti American statement.

Is saying ... Anti American ?

[*]The war in Iraq is bad

No.

[*]Guantanamo bay is a Gulag

Likely.

[*]The American government are doing a bad job

No.

[*]Americans are egoistic

Yes.

[*]The American dollar is a useless currency

No, this is just stupid.

[*]Mc Donald's sucks

No.

[*]Only backwards countries still practice the death-penalty

No.

[*]Fools love guns

No.

[*]I hate Idaho

No, just anti-Idahoan.

[*]The USA ranks in the top 3 of most corrupt nations on earth

Yes.

[*]I prefer Japanese cars over American cars

No.

[*]Ronald Reagan was a bad president

No.

[*]Lincoln was ugly

No.

[*]I don't like Hollywood movies

No.

[*]I'd kill any American I see

Yes.

[*]The killing of Americans in Iraq are done by heroes

Yes.

[*]Bush is not the smartest world-leader

No.

[*]Gay-marriage is good, forbidding it is undesirable

No.

[*]Bush is stupid

No.

[*]I hate America

Yes.

[*]I hate Americans

Yes.

[*]I hate American products

Yes.

I'd say the following are anti-American:
The American dollar is a useless currency (or just uninformed)
The USA ranks in the top 3 of most corrupt nations on earth (possibly, depends on context)
I'd kill any American I see
The killing of Americans in Iraq are done by heroes
I hate America
I hate Americans
I hate American products

Others aren't. However, sometimes it is not what one says, but how they say it, so that may be why some characterize them as such. Or they are just biased the other way.

"Don't stop." and "Don't. Stop." have completely different meanings. Context is important.

Anti-Americanism is mostly a myth propogated by the Bush administration in order to cement American backing for questionable policies. Of course, those same policies are slowly making the myth a reality, but most Americans are too self-absorbed to really pay attention.

Rik Meleet said:

What is Anti Americanism ?

I'll post some statements (not neccesarily my opinions) of which I'd like to know if you consider them to be Anti-American. I'd also like to know other statements you consider to be Anti-American; please post them (but don't flame or troll !!! - that's not the purpose of this thread !!).

[*]The war in Iraq is bad

-> No.

[*]Guantanamo bay is a Gulag

-> No

[*]The American government are doing a bad job

-> No

[*]Americans are egoistic

-> No

[*]The American dollar is a useless currency

-> No

[*]Mc Donald's sucks

-> No

[*]Only backwards countries still practice the death-penalty

-> No

[*]Fools love guns

-> No

[*]I hate Idaho

-> No

[*]The USA ranks in the top 3 of most corrupt nations on earth

-> No

[*]I prefer Japanese cars over American cars

-> No

[*]Ronald Reagan was a bad president

-> No

[*]Lincoln was ugly

-> No

[*]I don't like Hollywood movies

-> No

[*]I'd kill any American I see

-> Yes

[*]The killing of Americans in Iraq are done by heroes

-> Yes

[*]Bush is not the smartest world-leader

-> No

[*]Gay-marriage is good, forbidding it is undesirable

-> No

[*]Bush is stupid

-> No

[*]I hate America

-> Yes

[*]I hate Americans

-> Yes

[*]I hate American products

-> Maybe.

Click to expand...

Anti-americanism is some kind of political ideology mixed with xenophoby, fear, envy and maybe racism.

Rik Meleet said:

[*]Americans are egoistic
[*]I'd kill any American I see
[*]I hate America
[*]I hate Americans
[*]I hate American products

Click to expand...

These would be examples of anti-Americanism, I think the others would not.

Edit: I forgot to quote the corruption one, the US is no more or less corrupt than other western democracies.

I think examples of anti-Americanism (which I rarely see in OT but exist in the real world) would include:

* Thinking that all Americans are George Bush or Republicans (or thinking that all Americans are an extention of Washington policy)
* Thinking that Americans are stupid in general
* Thinking that any idea or product is inferior solely because it is from America or an American
* Thinking of Americans as children
* Thinking that stereotypes about one or two places in the US (Texas or New York for example) represent the entire country
* Generally viewing the US in simplistic terms and making sweeping judgements about it based on these
* Thinking that your country is superior to or more mature than the US now because of the accomplishments of dead people who once lived in your country in the past (this one is actually an insult to the entire new world)

When I run into real world versions of any of these it makes me understand what it is like to be a minority in a racist culture. There have been times when I have been in the position of trying to explain myself to people who hated me just for who I was. The fact that they refused to realize that I wasn't too far away from them in some ways made it more exasperating. Being hated for who you are is never right.

Some things that are not anti-American:

*Critisizing the US government (if you understand that not all Americans support their government)
*Critisizing one or a few US cultures (if your realize that there are other cultures in the country that are different, if you hate them all without knowing them you are a bigot)

Is saying ... Anti American ?

• The war in Iraq is bad - No that's a fact.
• Guantanamo bay is a Gulag - No that's a fact.
• The American government are doing a bad job - No that's a fact.
• Americans are egoistic - No that's a fact.
• The American dollar is a useless currency - Yes. This is not true and therefore a case of unfounded Anti-Americanism.
• Mc Donald's sucks - No that's a fact.
• Only backwards countries still practice the death-penalty - No that's a fact.
• Fools love guns - No that's a fact.
• I hate Idaho What?
• The USA ranks in the top 3 of most corrupt nations on earth Yes. It's corrupt but there are others far more talented in this area.
• I prefer Japanese cars over American cars Depends on your point of view.
  
• Ronald Reagan was a bad president Depends on your point of view.
• Lincoln was ugly - No that's a fact.
• I don't like Hollywood movies Depends on your point-of-view but IMO it's a fact.
• I'd kill any American I see Yes. Duh!
• The killing of Americans in Iraq are done by heroes Depends on your point-of-view.
• Bush is not the smartest world-leader - No that's a fact.
• Gay-marriage is good, forbidding it is undesirable. Nothing to do with anti-US sentiment IMO.
• Bush is stupid - No that's a fact.
• I hate America Yes. Clear anti-US sentiment.
• I hate Americans Yes. Clear anti-US sentiment.
• I hate American products Yes. Clear anti-US sentiment.

Anti-americanism isn't usually based on americans or america as a country. The US dollar is seen as the THE currency and america is the place many want to migrate to and american culture (music, movies, burgers, fashion, jeans, etc..) are very present anywhere you go.
It's some of the foreign policies, towards other countries, that come from the Govt which pisses many non-americans off. Many policies come across as being unilateral, high-handed or biased or even hypocritical at times.
for example, the US declares it will spread freedom and democracy wherever it is needed. but, then it shakes hands with leaders of countries which are not free or democratic, calling them 'friends of america or something'.
another is it's perceived one-sidedness with israel in the israeli-palestinian issue. if you were a palestinian, you'd be quite fed-up with the US govt.
when india and pakistan did nuclear testing and started making weapons, the govt imposed sanctions against these countries, but america has more nuke weapons than all the nations combined. these are only some examples as i see them.

Rambuchan said:

[*]Americans are egoistic - No that's a fact.

Click to expand...

I think you are right about the other but disagree with you on this. The US is a big country, some people are egotistic, some aren't. If you say Americans are egoistic you are talking about all 300 million of us.

Drewcifer said:

I think you are right about the other but disagree with you on this. The US is a big country, some people are egotistic, some aren't. If you say Americans are egoistic you are talking about all 300 million of us.

Click to expand...

You are right Drew and I am wrong. That one slipped through the net!

Drewcifer said:

I think you are right about the other but disagree with you on this. The US is a big country, some people are egotistic, some aren't. If you say Americans are egoistic you are talking about all 300 million of us.

Click to expand...

Well, maybe it's a generalization, but it is definitely shorter than "the average American is more egoistic than average ----"

Winner said:

Well, maybe it's a generalization, but it is definitely shorter than "the average American is more egoistic than average ----"

Click to expand...

I'll grant you that - at least when talking about ones country. But that is only one part of egotism. In national egotism we may excel (along with France, Japan and Saudi Arabia). I think personal egotism is well spread throughout the world.

Winner said:

Well, maybe it's a generalization, but it is definitely shorter than "the average American is more egoistic than average ----"

Click to expand...

Yes let's grant Winner that one. .

'Anti-American' is a silly term used to denigrate intelligent discourse by both lefties and righties...

All are fools.

Is saying ... Anti American ?

• The war in Iraq is bad
  No, that's anti-war-in-Iraq
• Guantanamo bay is a Gulag
  No, although it depends on who says it knowing (thinking to know) what
• The American government are doing a bad job
  No, that's a political opinion that has nothing to do with America as a whole
• Americans are egoistic
  This is a prejudice and a generalization and thus stupid anyway, it might indeed in many cases be the result of a general hatred of America, but doesn't have to
• The American dollar is a useless currency
  No, although it is an odd statement
• Mc Donald's sucks
  No, that's anti-Capitalist or just a Burger King ad
• Only backwards countries still practice the death-penalty
  No, there is more than just one backwards country
• Fools love guns
  Totally unrelated
• I hate Idaho
  That's anti Idaho
• The USA ranks in the top 3 of most corrupt nations on earth
  Depends on what it is based on, if it is true by some measurement then there's no reason but political correctness not to say so. I.e. no reason.
• I prefer Japanese cars over American cars
  No
• Ronald Reagan was a bad president
  Hell no.
• Lincoln was ugly
  Usually no (I mean, he was ugly), but in some context it might be intended to be anti-American
• I don't like Hollywood movies
  No
• I'd kill any American I see
  Yes
• The killing of Americans in Iraq are done by heroes
  No, that's not anti-American, it's a radical view on the war in Iraq. Could be said by an Arab patriot.
• Bush is not the smartest world-leader
  No. As any other anti-Bush thing that doesn't generalize towards all Americans.
• Gay-marriage is good, forbidding it is undesirable
  No, political opinion independent from any nation.
• Bush is stupid
  Same as two above.
• I hate America
  Yes
• I hate Americans
  Yes
• I hate American products
  In that generalization probably yes, but not necessarily.

It would be interesting to see if anyone can come here and dare say half of that list is anti-US, because rational argument would tear them down.

It is ominous that people on the right of US politics with supposed cognative functions are unwilling to post here - almost an admission that they are wrong. (Will they post now? I doubt it - still too much to lose).

Moderator Action: Warned for trolling
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

I only hate Americans who are Anti-German.

Reno said:

I only hate Americans who are Anti-German.

Click to expand...

And as they all are we can say whatever we want without being anti-American.

I really do not hate anyone. I generally have a feeling that most of the anger based towards the Bush administration. While some of the distrust is justified, I would think than a lot of the rational arguements goes out of the window, when people have been talking about the things the Bush Administration has done.

The only people who are anti-American are those who say questioning American policy is anti-American.