Physics question -> Max temperature ?

Rik Meleet · Jun 21, 2005

This has been on my mind for some time now.

Heat is the movement (shaking) of atoms. There is a maximum speed for movement; the speed of light. Does that mean there is a maximum temperature ? Or can it go to infinity due to 1 / (SQRT (1- (v^2/c^2))) ?

I have a hunch there is no maximum temperature, but I don't know.

Shaihulud · Jun 21, 2005

Heat is the measurement of vibration in a particle. Im sure there is an upper limit where no instrument can accurately measure it, where the frequency of the light emmitted is so intense that it destroys any kind of measuring device :O. The temperature might also change the very nature of the particle, hmmm im thinking is it possible for something to from into a blackhole by increasing its energy?

thetrooper · Jun 21, 2005

To increase T you'll also have to increase the energy. Is it possible to create infinte energy? No, and therefore a finite/max T.

The Last Conformist · Jun 21, 2005

Classically, there's no upper limit on temperature, since it depends on kinetic energy, not velocity per se.

This might change if QM effects are considered, but I don't know how.

nonconformist · Jun 21, 2005

The rate of movement in a particle?
IR radiation, a form of heat transfer travels at C is a vacuum, that is to say 3*10^8 ms^-1

Chieftess · Jun 21, 2005

I thought about this too... Not sure if there is one (probably is by normal means)... Even if it was done in a labratory, would it be even safe? You'd have atoms vibrating so much, you'd touch off a nuclear reaction. (They're actually doing this with lasers, trying to create fusion -- a new experiment).

Shaihulud · Jun 21, 2005

Theres no realistic way to perform this experiment, but it seems true that there is no upper limit for temperature.

The Last Conformist · Jun 21, 2005

If you wanted to create an absurdly high temperature in a lab, you'd use an extreme low density medium, so that the total energy content would stay lowish.

col · Jun 21, 2005

No upper limit.

Temperature is proportional to particle energy. KE = 0.5 m v ^2

Although velocity has an upper limit, mass increases relativistically as approach speed of light. At c mass becomes infinite. Thus kinetic energy becomes infinite as approach c. This is one reason why we cant ever accelerate particles to the speed of light. It would require infinite energy.

nonconformist · Jun 21, 2005

But doesn't IR radiation travel at C anyway?

Shaihulud · Jun 21, 2005

Im thinking of measuring the wavelength emmitted by a collection of particles we heat with multiple superpowered laser focusing on a single point (maybe theres a use for those star wars laser things), hope it doesn't explode!

betazed · Jun 21, 2005

col said:
No upper limit.

Temperature is proportional to particle energy. KE = 0.5 m v ^2

Although velocity has an upper limit, mass increases relativistically as approach speed of light. At c mass becomes infinite. Thus kinetic energy becomes infinite as approach c. This is one reason why we cant ever accelerate particles to the speed of light. It would require infinite energy.

couldn't there be another explanation?

temperature of a set of particles is basically a measure of the frequency of radiation it emits, considering the particles as a black body. now since frequency of that radiation is dependant on the acceleration of the particles and not the velocity and since there is no limit to acceleration there is no limit to temperature.

The Last Conformist · Jun 21, 2005

col said:
No upper limit.

Temperature is proportional to particle energy. KE = 0.5 m v ^2

Although velocity has an upper limit, mass increases relativistically as approach speed of light. At c mass becomes infinite. Thus kinetic energy becomes infinite as approach c. This is one reason why we cant ever accelerate particles to the speed of light. It would require infinite energy.

Is that to say that QM doesn't change anything here?

col · Jun 21, 2005

Dont think so. QM tends to restrict zeros rather than infinities. QM provides limits as to the lowest temperature.

Akka · Jun 21, 2005

nonconformist said:
But doesn't IR radiation travel at C anyway?

IR radiations are LIGHT, and light doesn't have a mass.
It's precisely why its speed is the ultimate upper limit

nonconformist · Jun 21, 2005

Akka said:
IR radiations are LIGHT, and light doesn't have a mass.
It's precisely why its speed is the ultimate upper limit

Yeppers, but is IR a "temperature"?

Azash · Jun 21, 2005

IR is "born" in the atom when the atom vibrates.

Bluemofia · Jun 21, 2005

Upper limit is if you converted everything in the universe to energy and compressed it to the quantum scale. So, essentially the moment of the big bang.

Particles such as atoms cease to be atoms at a certain temperature, and revert to ions, as the electrons gain soo much energy that they stop being attracted to them by the electromagnetic force. Then, at higher temperatures, the tempreture exceeds the power of the strong force binding the protons and neutrons togeather. At higher still, the protons and neutrons themselves break up into quarks.

The Last Conformist · Jun 21, 2005

nonconformist said:
Yeppers, but is IR a "temperature"?

Electromagnetic radiation is commonly assigned a temperature, specifically that of a black body that would radiate with the same spectral distribution.

Of course, this only makes sense for radiations that approximate blackbody radiation; others are sometimes called "non-thermal".

Rik Meleet · Jun 21, 2005

col said:
No upper limit.

Temperature is proportional to particle energy. KE = 0.5 m v ^2

Although velocity has an upper limit, mass increases relativistically as approach speed of light. At c mass becomes infinite. Thus kinetic energy becomes infinite as approach c. This is one reason why we cant ever accelerate particles to the speed of light. It would require infinite energy.

If I understand you correctly; mass is also Gamma dependent ?

Physics question -> Max temperature ?

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