COTM14 Second Spoiler - early MA and Southern Hemisphere

As promised, this is the second spoiler for COTM14.

This thread is meant to discuss mainly:
- How things went on in the starting island
- Expansion and -mainly- exploration: did you make it through the barbs? If you did, save map details for the next spoiler though!
- Use of the strategic resources: did you get to the Iron? Did you use it?

In order to take part in it, you should have at least:
- full knowledge of the southern half of the map
- reached the at least the end of the Ancient Age

Please limit the discussion in this thread to events that happened no later than the early MA -up to the discovery of the second-layer techs at most.

Predator

Well, not much to report here with the limitations.
I could trade for engineering and feudalism in 1050BC. My very first curragh was the one to do all the scouting in the north after being redlined by barb galleys.
I started a phony war with France and allied Spain to weaken both for a future invasion.
Bismarck has no further value, so I prepare to take him out with horses.
Berlin is taken in 850BC and Germany is out by 630BC.

In the meantime I also traded for monotheism and then researched chivalry by 510BC. In 490BC I could trade for invention. I then started a few more phony wars in the northern hemisphere.
But I didn't manage to get iron. The NoAIpatrol=0 barbs completely covered the two iron islands I knew about, so I couldn't land. While waiting for a hole to appear, I lost two galleys with settlers.
So I gave up on iron completely and just settled peacefully a few more cities.
The next interesting developments have to do with saltpeter locations and by that are beyond this spoiler.

Second post!

I reached the MA at a rather tardy 50 BC. At this stage I still hadn't made it through the barb islands to meet any of the Civs at the North but due to me playing with broken barbs I had managed to secure one of the iron sources (the 24 horsemen and 4 warriors inhabiting the nearby encampment were very happy to live and let live with the scousers who had settled their isle - presumably the peace will last until the modern ages when the regular car thefts and burglaries start to become a problem).

I had been focusing on grabbing as much space on the nearby islands as possible and was very low on military units. Initially the other civs were kept gracious through the brokering of tech but I managed to fall behind all the other civs by the MA. I had to pay Germany and Spain a few tributes to prevent them from making me their ***** but overall things were fairly smooth.

Despite being in last place going into the MA I still managed to get engineering as a monopoly tech and also met the other civs early into the MA and traded back to tech parity and got a decent amount of gold per turn into the bargain.

At 50BC when I reached the MA I had;

16 cities
65 citizens
45 units including 18 workers (1 slave)
173 tiles
score 517
culture 589 (16 per turn)

Future plans were to build up an army of swordsmen/med infs and knights to take the Germans who had built the GL in Berlin. Zero percent science would be used accordingly. How that turned out will have to wait for the next spoiler though.......

Btw - I always seem to be massively down on culture relative to the other civs (even on GOTM 44) anyone have any tips?

Im going to have to vote for the traditional spoiler thread system separated by ages. I dont have much to contribute here besides settling the closest iron island and conquesting France with knights. Research was set on the upper portion of the tech tree after Germany drew Monotheism. I realize now that my ini patrol file must be set to 1 (I recently reinstalled conquests) so that must be why my iron island was devoid of barb activity.

Looking over my notes, I need a correction. I actually made it to Philosophy in 1675 BC and emerged as a Republic in 1550, not learning the Republic in 1550 as I previously stated.

Anyway, once I was in Republic I felt I had an advantage over the AI, and rather than gunning for more research, I went for the cash to grow and get some early culture for my 100K quest. The horses were hooked in 1075, and I did something I had never done before- a chariot short-rushing campaign. I figured getting the hooves on the ground was more important than having high-quality mounted units, the more the better. I also spent a lot on rushing temples and later libraries. Even so, I didn’t hit 25 culture per turn until 710BC.

The other civs didn’t catch up very quickly. Spain became a monarchy in 690, at which point I traded them Republic for incense and some gold. In 630 I traded Map Making to France for some Dyes to keep this Republic happy; they entered Anarchy in 570. So that’s about 1000 years during which I could cash rush chariots vs. these despotic empires. HBR was not learned until 570BC. None of the other civs had it, so I just kept cash rushing military and culture, expanding as quickly as possible to the islands east and west. (BTW, all my curraghs sank in the regionally intense barb area, and I didn’t try to reach other civs for a while after that).

Finally in 450BC Germany became a Republic. Figuring the days of my advantage were over, it was time to attack. I had 11 horses. Hastings, the cow town of mine that had flipped in 1250BC, was the first to fall. Other cities fell quickly, but Germany had a ‘hard core’ that didn’t give up so easily. 9 horses failed to take Leipzig on the first attempt. Berlin had grown to 7. I was content to take my time with the war, committed to a split attention on territory growth and culture as well.

In 390BC I learned Currency, and science went from slow to zero. In 370BC, my first stroke of great luck: Great Leader #1!!!! I didn’t know how long it would be until I controlled Berlin, so I shipped him to Ickleford, a 77% corrupt city that commanded a juicy spot on the SE island with cows, furs, and fish in it’s radius. Forbidden Palace at 310BC, corruption dropped to 20%, with a negligible effect on surrounding cities on the island. Good enough. At the same time I realized it was going to take a Herculean effort to take control of the Iron, and I decided just to stuff it, these other guys don’t have iron either, let’s get ‘em with horses! I did bother to claim the gems down there though.

I know I’m wishy-washy this time. I cranked science back up to learn construction in 250BC to end the Ancient Age and have something to trade to renew lux deals with France. 230BC saw the second assault on Leipzig. It was captured, Germany was really in the toilet now, and I received Great Leader #2!!! He formed an army that remained unfilled until the time came to invade Spain. Right around this time Spain completed the ToA, a must-have in any 100k game. My strategy now was: Conquest=Culture. Gotta finish off Germany quick and capture Madrid as soon as possible!

So, by 70BC I finally reached 50cpt(that’s it?). I captured Berlin this turn and made peace for 2 more cities, leaving them 2 and hoping they might learn a nice MA tech for us. They got Engineering, which I had learned just 3 turns earlier…. In 130, I had 6 galleys with 10 horses, a spear, and the empty army off the coast of Spain. In 150, DOW and land ho. In 170 Barcelona is captured, the Heroic epic is undertaken in London. I finally met the Sumerians in 190AD, which sped up my research on Feudalism…. Well, I’m bumping up against the limit of this spoiler, so I’ll stop there. I am making slightly more than 80 cpt at this point, boy is there a long way to go!

Here’s a window on the world in 150AD:

Search for a quick 20k win continues

I agree killercane. I researched nearly the whole Middle Ages until I found the location of Iron.

War
In war against the Germans I attacked with horses and archers. In a few turns the Germans were reduced to a town. Despite frenzy attempts, no MGLs were born. Heroic Epic is the major culture building in a 20k attempt. Peace is signed in 670BC.

Techs
The Great Library brings us in the MA. After that it's full speed research through the MA in comfortable tech lead.

750BC Trade for Monotheism and Engineering (0t)
570BC Theology (9t)
450BC Feudalism (0t) Free Great Library tech
430BC Education (7t)

Culture buildings in London
All nonwonder buildings cash rushed. University is an exception, I couldn't fit a great wonder before Shakespeare's Theater.

01 cpt 4000BC The Palace
05 cpt 1575BC The Colossus
09 cpt 1325BC The Oracle
11 cpt 1300BC Temple (partial cash rush)
14 cpt 1250BC Library (partial cash rush)
20 cpt 900BC The Great Library
24 cpt 630BC The Hanging Gardens
27 cpt 610BC Cathedral (cash rush)
29 cpt 590BC Colosseum (partial cash rush)
36 cpt 450BC University

Culture gathered: 911
Estimated win date: 1908AD

List of AI completed wonders:
1550BC The Statue of Zeus
1350BC the Pyramids
1275BC The Great Lighthouse
750BC The Temple of Artemis
730BC The Mausoleum of Mausollos
630BC The Great Wall

A major event has occured in the early middle ages, the destruction of the dutch by either Babylon, Sumeria or the Vikings. To add to my woes, every galley i try to send up to find out about the north is killed by barbarians, and the germans are matching me in tech and military. And the Germans are faster at expanding on the surrounding islands than me.

I debated about building the Great Lighthouse, and finally decided to do it. Germany needed to be dealt with soon, and a golden age would help me pump out military. There were other uses for the Lighthouse too, but they are outside the scope of this spoiler.

So I completed the Great Lighthouse in 1175BC. London produced 30spt in the golden age, and soon I had enough horses to take on Germany.

1050BC: Enter Middle ages, buy Monotheism from [censored] and Feudalism from Germany
1025BC: Declare war on Germany, capturing Berlin and Munich

QSC results:
10 cities
2 settlers
2 galleys
9 horsemen

Future plans include running over Germany, sending settlers on galleys everywhere, [censored], and finally being able to post a minimap.

DaveMcW said:

So I completed the Great Lighthouse in 1175BC. London produced 30spt in the golden age, and soon I had enough horses to take on Germany.

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Dave, in hindsight, do you think the early golden age was worth it.
You for sure didn't really need the production boost for dealing with Bismarck.
And if your goal is still 100k, I would think a golden age while having already more cities would benefit more.

I spent most of the rest of the Ancient Age exploring, sending settlers to islands, and finishing off the Germans. I declared on them for a second time in 490BC, entered the Middle Ages in 310BC, and finished the Germans in 210BC.

By this time I only had contact with France and Spain. Every curragh or galley I'd sent north had been sunk by a barbarian galley, and I was getting increasingly frustrated.

I self-researched Feudalism, and Monotheism, and started to head up the top branch of the tech tree, as Spain appeared to be going along the bottom (this turned out to be a good decision, and allowed for a subsequent brisk MA tech pace with Spain as my main trading partner).

I ignored Chivalry. Whilst I knew where the iron was, and had landed a settler on the island, it was too risky - and I didn't really have the troops to spare - to do anything about the barbarian horde that had arisen on the island. I just let the spearman and archer I'd landed with the settler defend the town until the barbarians ran out. As a result, I didn't get my iron hooked up for a long, long, time!

I did grab the gems, using the "colony-then-town" trick to get a road build quickly.

My picture comes from 110BC (as usual, I have plenty of saves and notes for my first playing session, and things dry up somewhat for subsequent sessions - that's my last save before AD1200!)

Early Middle Ages:

Went for Feud first; no AI was close to enter it, and if the SCI Civs pull something different, this will offer the best sale value.

Completed the Lighthouse in 630BC and entered my GA. Used it to get up some basic infra, and lots of Horses to deal with the Germans.
In 590BC, I met the Vikings as last Civ.
In 490BC, Feud done. Sumeria hit MA that turn, and got Engineering; gifted Babylon (they’d already lost their capital to Netherlands btw), who also got Eng – nice trading. Eng, all cash/gpt in the world, and 5 Luxuries .
In 470BC, I declared on Germany. Removed them from our landmass in 290BC, captured 2 more cities on the midsize W island, and got one more for peace in 130BC – Germany now was in OCC until end of game.
No luck with MGLs (not a single one in the whole game!), so I handbuilt the FP in Leipzig (the Silks city). Wasn’t done before 450AD uch:.
Entered the IA* in 530AD. I plain simply picked the correct techs, and the Northern Civs actually were very helpful and researched the bottom branch for me. I headed for Astro ASAP, and built Copes easily.
No chance for Iron (Barbs!). Grabbed the Gems, though.

Btw, I already had mapped almost the entire coastline in mid-MA; and even in the AA, I found all Civs but one.

(*: I know, another MA thread will come – but nothing worth reporting happened in the later MA anyway.)

Not much to report. AI was zero help with research from becoming a republic until the end of the AA, so the tech pace is slow. Dutch built the great lighthouse veryearly, so GA won't be for quite a while. I self-researched currency & construction, entered the MA in 630BC. 610BC was time to take germany, I demanded frankfurt to get them angry, and they actually gave it to me. Declared anyway, and went to war. Finally got a curragh through the barbs at about that time, I met the 4 northern civs in 590, 570, 550 & 510 BC. Game's currently at 510BC, I've just traded 3 of the northern civs into the MA, but not had much luck with free techs, Germany is nearly dead, I'd like to take their island cities in the peace deal before finishing them off, but unfortunately one of those islands is on a resource, either horses or iron (need to look at the game to remember), so they won't give it up. I might leave them as a OCC to give me a chance at free techs at the start of each age, the only problem with that is it will mean no RoP's when we get to nationalism, as I had an unnoticed galley in german waters when I declared.

I'll start some wars amongst the northern civs soon, and cross my fingers they do some decent research for me. Iron's not hooked up yet, but should be soon as I keep expanding.

sanabas said:

AI was zero help with research from becoming a republic until the end of the AA, so the tech pace is slow.

Click to expand...

That's exactly like in my game - I'm really curious how on Earth DaveMcW hit the MA that early.
Pure luck (in my game, all 4 stronger Civs insisted on researching Monarchy before Curr/Con), or a neat strategy I'm not aware of? Dave? Any hints?

I have a feeling it's a bit of both. I feel the thing that's cost me the most so far is that I didn't meet any of the northern civs until 2 turns after I entered the MA. A bit more luck with curraghs (and if the predator bonus curraghs came south) early could have made a lot of difference, Germany was limited to 4 or 5 cities before map making, so I only had france and Spain with the possibility of doing research for me, and they both went slowly towards monarchy. They didn't help much, and my tech path after republic made it worse, as I needed map making to colonise other islands and horseback riding to go to war with germany ASAP. I finished up researching both of those, plus currency and construction myself, all at monopoly rates. The dutch built the great lighthouse in 1350BC, 2 turns after I became a republic, so if I made early contact I would have definitely got MM, and probably only needed to research currency after republic.

I did have lots of contact. But that still didn't help - the 4 strongest Civs all went for Monarchy. Germany out of all Civs showed up with MM, but that was the only post-Writing tech I could trade for. And oddly enough, the AI Civs went for Monarchy even before they knew MM. That's why I could easily complete the Lighthouse so late - it wasn't even under construction anywhere else...
I would have gifted them Mon, but once Spain showed up with it, I couldn't trade for it with anything but Rep AND Lit...and that really wasn't worth it IMHO.
Is there a trick around to prevent the AI Civs form heading towards Monarchy first?

Doc Tsiolkovski said:

Is there a trick around to prevent the AI Civs form heading towards Monarchy first?

Click to expand...

Well, don't trade poly around, but get them math as early as possible. But there's quite a bit of luck involved , especially with the math part .
In my game nobody went for poly so the first condition was automatically met.
I traded a lot (using gpt where necessary) before the slingshot, to set everybody up for math. In 1790 I swapped writing for math and distributed it. So the 3 civs I knew could either go for construction (had traded and distributed IW some time before) or MM.
I still got the republic slingshot in 1650 and soon (1425) could trade for MM and construction.
The only AA tech I got from the north was HBR (in 1400).
I researched literature, currency and even poly after the slingshot to enter MA in 1075BC.

the major event that occured in my game is a military great leader is generated in the war against Germany. at that time i already had two towns in the big island south east to us. so he was sent there and rushed the forbidden city there.
surprisingly the corruption is very low, even Berlin is only wasting a small amount of shields. so in retrospect, it's really a wise thing to do to rush the forbidden city in a far away big island. this allows good science rate in the game, which will be covered in the next spoiler. but my 30ish turn reseach to republic probably won't be compensated by this.

Not much to add. Entered the MA in around 10AD. Warring with Germany at the moment. Just nabbed Berlin for the GL. Planning on finishing off the Germans soon and continue exploring.

Every galley I sent trying to go North are killed off by barb ships.

Pretty quiet for me. Germany only had one city left (Berlin), so I gifted them into the MA, but they drew Feudalism which I already had. For some reason I didn't figure this out, and spent a turn trying to see why they didn't get a free tech. Once they failed that I launched my attack via a RoP rape, but had tough progress with archers vs the size 9 city. My second wave was horsemen; I had forgotten about them so built too many archers. Took out Germany without too much trouble, though and started FP there.

I made my first contacts to the north; other than Babylon France and Spain were the last civs that I discovered. The northern civs were doing pretty good techwise, so I created a dogpile to slow Sumeria down. With archipelego it's easy to create 'fake' wars; the AI isn't very good about launching real attacks, so you don't have to worry about a civ getting hosed in a dogpile as much. Mainly it just slows down trading and tech costs.

I landed cities next to the iron, gems, and saltpeter, but took a very long time hooking them up. Gems came first, Iron was near the very end of the MA. I really have been running a fairly slim defense, but with lots of trading I have been keeping everyone happy with me.

I think I only lost one ship to barbarians, and that was empty, I had really good luck with them. I was able to place my city next to the iron and endure the 20-30 horsemen without much of a problem also.

I settled the good spots to the east, spain put two or three cities in the tundra to the south. FP going in Berlin. I wasn't able to hit any of the wonders, but am not really worried about them (Leo's is the only one sort of useful).

I decided I am going for a diplo win, because I slowed down and didn't pursue any conquest (I don't like conquest anyway . So now I need to keep the AI fast without letting them get too far ahead so I can squeeze the UN.

predator
I explored quite quickly the Southern Hemisphere until it became clear that is separated from the Northern one. I also traded for Iron working and spotted one Iron on a barb island to my East. As soon as I had MM, I sent a galley with a settler there and built the city just before going into the Middle Ages. Therefore, the barbs had not filled the island when I got there. They did ransack my town eventually, but I was careful enough not to have any money at that time. So I connected Iron, just as I got Chivalry.

I could took most of Germany in the first war where I used horses, gifted them tech then traded for their free (Mono). Respected the peace treaty then gifted them a town on the 2 tile island south of put continent and isolated them there (waiting for a free tech in Industrial Age).

Just as I finished Germany (got a ML but FP was already built by then), I attacked Spain with Knights (I had alliances with one and then the other to insure they were constantly fighting). I finished off Spain easily (some flips put me back but I was careful enough, also did some selective razing). I continued to research towards Military Tradition, hoping that the other civs would do the other tech branch. My units remained strained on the second continent with nothing to do but it did not take that long in the end.

I lost all curraghs going toward the barb infested area but eventually contacted the Northern Hemisphere before getting to the Middle Ages.

Nice game, I did not expect to lack the Iron but managed to get in time after all.