Dainichi Sekai Taisen version 2.0 Release

Game Zip
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DST2g.zip

Sound Zip
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/DST2s.zip

The primary changes have revolved around the Allies. These changes are not very noticeable at first but they have a very big impact on improving the AI counter-attack in the second half of the game and in general the challenge of achieving the winning conditions has been hiked up several levels. In particular, there is a new system to create random Allied amphibious task groups. Also, not attacking the Allies will no longer prevent the Oil Embargo or the Allies from getting their war techs.

There have been some changes to the Japanese side including free Colonial Infantry to ease the unrealistic manpower shortage.

Some other changes include adding the Carden Llyod Tankette for the Chinese and Dutch (while the P-38 has been removed) and a HTML readme section with unit descriptions and historical background.

Whats Changed?

Ah, I was editing the post when you asked. See above for a summary and if you want I can PM you a detailed list of changes.

Hmm, maybe I will download this sometime, except that It seems to involve MANY units and cities, a no no for me.

Not really that many units or cities by WWII scenario standards. I think you'll be able to manage.

Eivind IV said:

So, did anyone actually play this here at civfanatics?

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very appropriate words

Did you manage to deal with the problem of the Allied AI attacking too soon? (Sorry I couldn't be more help with that but I have no time.)

yoshi said:

Did you manage to deal with the problem of the Allied AI attacking too soon? (Sorry I couldn't be more help with that but I have no time.)

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Version 2.0 concentrates on fixing the Allies' timid attempts to recapture the Pacific and little further has been done to lessen the frequency of the AI sneak attack problem - some people were able to go all the way to 1944 without fighting in version 1.3. So, the problem has not gone away and I have come to the conclusion it is impossible to ensure the AI not attack the human player for 60 turns without resorting to alliances.

There are two saved games that jump to 1940 and 1941, allowing you to by-pass the problem entirely. I played those games bribing the Allies ever so often to leave me alone. An unfortunate side-effect is that those games don't allow you to pre-position your forces they way you would like.

I think the 'smarter' AI makes a major difference so do try the 1941 game at least.

There must be a way. As for the saved games: doesn't that defeat the point of building up Japan's infrasturcture and miilitary before hostilities begin?

The only sure way that I can think of is to do what someone said elsewhere: use multiple Rules.txt files to only give units attack factors after a certain point (you'd have to apply this to Japan also so that the human player can't take advanatage of this).

But since you dislike file-swapping, I guess this is not an option.

Does EVERYONE know I dislike file swapping?

Well, you implied that you didn't like FS when someone mentioned this as a solution in another other thread.

Personally, I always take FS into account as a design option. It has provided solutions for me when there were non otherwise.

This is one of the real advantages Civ2 has over Civ3: Civ3 only reads the game rules once so that's what you're stuck with for the rest of the scen. In Civ2, combine FS with Events and you can change practically everything about a scen in a single turn.

Although the extra files take up more room, FS allows you to get more into the scen (i.e. more events, use obsolete slots for new items).


If it were me, I would go with the FS option and artificially keep the Allies at bay until historically appropriate. That way, the US can still attack Japan after that point if the Japan player is a wuss, and the non-wuss Japan player can likewise keep track of Allied units before attacking. (To ensure that Japan doesn't attack too early, do the same with Japan's units only give them attack factors just before the Allies.)

But if FS is out of the question then the problem with using the macro to make Allied units pop-up when Japan attacks is that there won't be anything but cities for Japan to attack until after the first Allied unit is destroyed (i.e. when the Allied offensive units are triggered to spawn). You would also have to provide the player with some sort of intelligence report (something I would do either way, especially when there are no diplo untis in the scen) so that he has an idea where the Allied units are going to be. You'd also have to add some way of forcing the allied units to appear regardless of whether Japan attacks or not (i.e. the wuss scenario )--I think I can think up a way of doing all this without wasting loads of events space by use of a few ChangeTerrain events. If you think this would be historically acceptable, then there is no problem.

yoshi said:

But if FS is out of the question then the problem with using the macro to make Allied units pop-up when Japan attacks is that there won't be anything but cities for Japan to attack until after the first Allied unit is destroyed (i.e. when the Allied offensive units are triggered to spawn).

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There are plenty of Allied units. The AI is not dependent on spawning to get its units. I use research as the main means of controlling when AI units begin appearing.

yoshi said:

You'd also have to add some way of forcing the allied units to appear regardless of whether Japan attacks or not (i.e. the wuss scenario )--I think I can think up a way of doing all this without wasting loads of events space by use of a few ChangeTerrain events. If you think this would be historically acceptable, then there is no problem.

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At a certain point, the Allies get their techs regardless of whether the Japs attack or not. Then the more units they build, the more likely they will sneak attack. So the option of researching and hoarding until 1944 (Agricola tried this in an earlier test run) for an all out blitz will no longer work.

The change-terrain technique has been used since version 1.0. The main challenge is to mirror the U.S. buildup after its initial setbacks and I think this has been accomplished very well by version 2.0.

When you finally have time please play the 1940 version and let me know what happens.

I'm saying that perhaps you should make the AI completely dependent on spawning--at least initially--if you want to be sure that the AI doesn't attack before it's supposed to (i.e. delete the preplaced units and have them all be triggered by an attack).

If no attack, spawn when historically appropriate or use some kind of random system to make it less predictable.

I want to test it out--not just for you but also for myself so that I can figure out ways of making my own WW2-Europe scen better--but I find that I never have any large chunks of time with which to dedicate to stuff like this. Will DL the latest version and try playing a bit ow and then, but it takes time if it's to serve testing purposes.

BTW, you already tried giving the Japanese civ an immobile nuke so as to keep the Allies from declaring war right?

yoshi said:

BTW, you already tried giving the Japanese civ an immobile nuke so as to keep the Allies from declaring war right?

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Err....no. Does that work? The Japs are a nuclear power in the Civ sense. Is it the possession of a nuke or the ability to build nukes or slot related or tech related?

Possession of a nuke. If the AI doesn't have a nule of its own, this should cause it to hold of its attack. (No promises, as I've seen the AI attack me when I had nukes and it didn't, but try it to be sure.)

What do you mean by, "a nuclear power in the Civ sense?"

BTW, you get the 'Our words..' message if you have a unit that occupies the default 'Nuclear Msl.' slot regardless of what the unit's attack factor is. (Whether the AI actually acts accordingly, I don't know.)

yoshi said:

What do you mean by, "a nuclear power in the Civ sense?"

BTW, you get the 'Our words..' message if you have a unit that occupies the default 'Nuclear Msl.' slot regardless of what the unit's attack factor is. (Whether the AI actually acts accordingly, I don't know.)

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Yeah, that's what I meant, by nuclear power, what you said after BTW

Oh right.

See if the nuke stops the AI attacking. If it does, will make things easier.

What's up with the scen? No more comments?

Does this mean it's working fine now?

yoshi said:

What's up with the scen? No more comments?

Does this mean it's working fine now?

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I can't add a nuke type unit without overhauling the rules, unit.bmp and events. It will go into version 3.0 along with other changes contemplated, if it ever materializes.

Thanks to agricola and the guys over at SL, several typos have been identified and some bugs fom two wonders in some unlikely situations have been discovered. I am also thinking about adding more japanese merchantmen at the start, changing the cost and frequency of goods, and other stuff.

Downloading this now!