Team Vote - Spreadsheet Use

[RegentMan]

Do the teams oppose the use of spreadsheets, such as this one?

It's an excel spreadsheet to plan your start. It could be done with pencil and paper, but is an excel file for ease of use.

It simply helps to calculate the work/build orders without doing it by hand... It's simply speeds up the math.

My only concern is that it violates Rule 2.2:

Originally Posted by The Ruleset

2.2 - Save Manipulation

Description: No team or individual is permitted to use the PBEM save games or other files to obtain information or alter any in-game element. This includes monitoring or altering memory while the game is loaded. Using MapStat or CivAssist II or such utilities is also prohibited.

Definition: An individual scanning or monitoring loaded files into memory or altering a file can obtain location information and more, they can even alter in game data.

Purpose: To prevent the use of outside game elements to break the spirit of the game by allowing someone to outright cheat.

Verdict: Using these or any other methods that allows altering the in-game content through any means is a violation of this rule.

Punishment Level: Once - Automatic Expulsion

So have each member look over it and offer their opinion. UN reps: you have a flexible 48 hours to vote (meaning I won't knock down your door if your vote is one or two hours late).

Option 1 - My team wants the use of planning spreadsheets to be allowed.

Option 2 - My team does not want the use of planning spreadsheets to be allowed.

[Provolution]

What a silly proposal. People planning with a spreadsheet would not need to announce it to anyone. There is no restrictions on pen and paper and so on. However, programs such as Civassist and so on revealing new info should be banned, only statistical aids and planned schedules are allowed.

[Whomp]

Option 1.
Yes to spreadsheets

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by The Ruleset

2.2 - Save Manipulation

Description: No team or individual is permitted to use the PBEM save games or other files to obtain information or alter any in-game element. This includes monitoring or altering memory while the game is loaded. Using MapStat or CivAssist II or such utilities is also prohibited.

A spreadsheet does nothing to alter gameplay, unlike mapstat or civassist, and could easily be used without being recognized by simply stating what should be done next. The spreadsheet calculates the best use of the known 21 tiles each team has.

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by The Ruleset

Definition: An individual scanning or monitoring loaded files into memory or altering a file can obtain location information and more, they can even alter in game data.

A spreadsheet has no way of altering a file, monitoring loaded files or altering game data.

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by The Ruleset

Purpose: To prevent the use of outside game elements to break the spirit of the game by allowing someone to outright cheat.

This in no way is cheating it is simply effective micromanagment of a civilization.

Our view is the use of a spreadsheet, or pencil and paper for that matter, has no bearing on the play of the game and simply a function of maximum efficiency.

[DaveShack]

As far as I can tell, CivAssist II and CRP Suite have protections built in which prevent showing anything other than the "current team" information. The restriction should be against using any method to get information which cannot be obtained in-game, and against using any method to modify the save outside normal game play.

My personal opinion is that using a utility to get information available inside the game should be allowed. Such utilities do two things, make it easer to get / find the information which is already available, and format the info in an easy to read format. The game should be about who has the better strategy and tactics, not on who has better eyesight, or can more accurately record what they see to tell their teammates, or has better patience or better knowledge of the user interface.

My team's opinion may differ, but you've got my 2 gold worth.

[vbraun]

Spreadsheets do not change the save file.

[Provolution]

just keep out funky applications, that is for handicapped ones

[zyxy]

Originally Posted by vbraun

Spreadsheets do not change the save file.

Neither do Mapstat or CivAssist, nor do they provide any cheat information.
Banning such applications is useless anyway, their use can easily be masked.

[RegentMan]

I've seen so many complaints about Rule 2.2 and MapStat and Civ Assist II. Here's something that might make you happy:

Originally Posted by The Rules

5.2.1 - Limitations

The Existing Ruleset may be amended at any time during the game.

PM me your alternate, and we'll put it to the vote.

[Provolution]

If so, we should make sure that all the teams are given mapstat and civassist here in the common thread, with no need to research versions and so on.

[Whomp]

Would it be worthwhile to post in the mapstat and civassist II threads to ask Dianthus and Ainwood whether their utility would be ok to use in this type of game?

Do we have conclusion on the spreadsheet?

[RegentMan]

Bump. I need the official UN rep from each team to post their vote sometime soon.

[Xerol]

I attempted using CivAssist II in a MP game once. It didn't work well at all, never loading autosaves and always having incorrect data about one thing or another (it said my capital was making ~65,000 commerce on the first turn). But this was a live LAN game, not a PBEM, so it might behave differently.

[ybbor]

The Greeks (MIA) vote yes; allow the spreadsheets.

[Tubby Rower]

Whomp (K.I.S.S. UN representative) is out. But going back to post #3

Originally Posted by Whomp with emphasis added for clarity

Option 1.
Yes to spreadsheets

[Provolution]

TEAM TNT had no objection to the use of spreadsheets, for mere planning purposes, and is therefore positive (Yes) to spreadsheets.

[RegentMan]

Unless vbraun posts otherwise, then the 2/3 majority has been achieved. Spreadsheets are allowed to be used in this game.