MoM in Olympus - Do you want this?

People of Fanatikos!

Listen! This day the citizen zyxy posted a brilliant idea in the Olympus Government thread: can we build a special Mausolleum for Mr. Mausollos in Olympus? Can our proud capitol have the honour of building such beatiful work of art? Mr. Mausollos was a brilliant writer that inaugurated the age of the Fanatik literature, he wrote, among many other books, "A Review of the Fanatik History" and "Diplomacy". These works of art shall be part of the Fanatik State collection, and many copies of them will be made for the soon-to-be-inaugurated Great Library. This great writer, this gentleman and honored citizen deserves to be buried with honour, and nowhere else than in his beloved city of birth, Olympus! Now the majority will say if we shall build this Great Wonder, or not! Let us hear the Voice of the People!

The Great Library should be our first priority. I mean, I dont want to see this nation fall behind in the tech race.

Once the GL has been built. I dont think we should waste our time constructing wonders unless we have built enough military units that meets the Military Department's need.

I am of the opposite view, since we have 5 cities only, and Hoplites cover our main security need, and we can only produce as many units as we can afford, I am for a One City-One Wonder policy. That is only just and fair. Yet, I think Olympus needs to wait a little bit, in order to accelerate the growth to our neighboring cities and build military units.

Governor Provolution,

Being Olympus our capitol, I think that we should strenghten it now instead of only contributing to other cities. We need to get the MoM there, as you said: one city, one wonder. We will probably get the GL in Civatonia, but I am not willing to renounce to the MoM in Olympus.

Sincerelly,

Civlord

Governor Civlord,

You must keep in mind several things.

1. The city of Styx cannot grow without your help.
2. With only two workers, we need to draft a workforce that can complete our road network. And that only makes sense coming from our most fertile city.
3. No matter what, you need to build a Library in Olympus first --- for the culture and the science.

Once you assist the nation in helping to prop up the city of Styx, I am sure that Governor SaaM will have no problem taking over the provider role for a good part of our workforce. But until then, I am not sure I am ready to mortgage the Greek future for a flashy tombstone, even if Mr. Mausollos was one of my favorite writers.

Perhaps we can afford a fitting tribute at a later time. But until then I would like you to honor your previous commitment to help get our nation up and running.

Respectfully,

Donovan Zoi
President of Fanatikos

Mr. President,

I am currently pondering my plans, but I will not abandon my duty with Styx and Fanatikos. I am only considering the MoM because:

1. It gives us content faces, and we will need them in the future when the city grows.
2.It gives a bit culture.
3. Its effects don't expire.

Considering the growth potential of Olympus, I think that the luxury slider and military police won't be enough to satisfact the citizens. Since this is emperor, we will need the help of at least one wonder to keep the order there.

The Library and the workers will be built, don't worry mr. President . But I was considering the MoM for a later phase of this Term. We will build it after we have the workers, the granary, the library and a temple. One of my major goals is to build an adequate wonder for Olympus.


Sincerelly,

Governor Civlord

I have no problem with your planning ahead, Governor, and am glad to hear that we can stay on track with the original plan. I will let you handle the logistics of respectfully handling Mr. Maussollos' remains until we can give him proper tribute.

Also, since we should need no more than 3-4 workers from Olympus to start, we may be able to postpone the Granary for now. Remember, we don't have to send out any more Settlers, so the need for food reserves is diminished considerably. I only propose this so that we can grant your great city a chance at building this great monument.

Respectfully,

Donovan Zoi
President of Fanatikos

I still think building libraries nationwide is a waste as we plan to zero out the science slider for some time, what we need is commerce to get as much money as possible.
We also need more happiness wonders for same reason. Commerce, Happiness and Military Wonders, no more science builds for a while.

We won with the science trait, now let us use the commerce trait.

Donovan Zoi said:

Governor Civlord,

You must keep in mind several things.

1. The city of Styx cannot grow without your help.
2. With only two workers, we need to draft a workforce that can complete our road network. And that only makes sense coming from our most fertile city.
3. No matter what, you need to build a Library in Olympus first --- for the culture and the science.

Once you assist the nation in helping to prop up the city of Styx, I am sure that Governor SaaM will have no problem taking over the provider role for a good part of our workforce. But until then, I am not sure I am ready to mortgage the Greek future for a flashy tombstone, even if Mr. Mausollos was one of my favorite writers.

Perhaps we can afford a fitting tribute at a later time. But until then I would like you to honor your previous commitment to help get our nation up and running.

Respectfully,

Donovan Zoi
President of Fanatikos

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All valid points. The problem with wonder construction is that it cannot wait too long. If we do all these things first, then some AI will build the Mausoleum, in honor of our citizen .

I think this is a pretty good wonder in our situation. It's cheap, and provides much needed happiness (and maybe also toursit income?). Olympus is a city of high potential and could well become bigger than the others, so it could use the happy people. On top of that, it's fun to do something like this every once in a while.

The city of Styx should build a library (cows!), and get irrigation. Then it can easily take care of itself, and build more workers. The two workers up north should head this way asap.
A library is not needed in Olympus if we go 0 or min science. So it depends on what the people want here.

Provolution said:

I still think building libraries nationwide is a waste as we plan to zero out the science slider for some time, what we need is commerce to get as much money as possible.
We also need more happiness wonders for same reason. Commerce, Happiness and Military Wonders, no more science builds for a while.

We won with the science trait, now let us use the commerce trait.

Click to expand...

So now that we will have the tech lead in 2 turns, you would just like to squander that away again? Let's keep the pressure on our rivals, knowing that our tech lead is secure. We may have a possiblity in the near future in hiring scientists to many of our larger cities (in some cases, the scientist will actually allow the city to grow larger while maintaining the same happiness level).

Besides, the Libraries are the cheapest and most effective culture build we could have right now, and we need to secure our borders. So Libraries should be built regardless of whether we use them for science or not.

And please tell me what need we have for gold right now? So it can be extorted from our jealous rivals? We won't need gold for quite some time, until we (hopefully) become a Republic. So let's maintain our science trait until we have a use for our commercial one. It makes no sense to begin hording gold again for no apparent reason.

zyxy said:

All valid points. The problem with wonder construction is that it cannot wait too long. If we do all these things first, then some AI will build the Mausoleum, in honor of our citizen .

I think this is a pretty good wonder in our situation. It's cheap, and provides much needed happiness (and maybe also toursit income?). Olympus is a city of high potential and could well become bigger than the others, so it could use the happy people. On top of that, it's fun to do something like this every once in a while.

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I couldn't agree more. There are just too many reasons why we should not put off a Library for roughly 30 turns. So let's build the Library, and maybe I lower my request on the workers (only 2?).

zyxy said:

The city of Styx should build a library (cows!), and get irrigation. Then it can easily take care of itself, and build more workers. The two workers up north should head this way asap.
A library is not needed in Olympus if we go 0 or min science. So it depends on what the people want here.

Click to expand...

I am already in talks with the governors of Styx and Augean Stables about the issues you have mentioned. And yes, it looks like we will need to set a referndum for science research for our immediate future.

zyxy said:

The city of Styx should build a library (cows!), and get irrigation. Then it can easily take care of itself, and build more workers. The two workers up north should head this way asap.
A library is not needed in Olympus if we go 0 or min science. So it depends on what the people want here.

Click to expand...

Mr. Citizen,

I am planning to build the Library or not according to the plans of Fanatikos. I am still thinking in jumping it and going directly to the MoM if our science slider is set to 0. Time, the Government and the citizens will say if we must build the library now or leave it for later.

Sincerelly,

Governor Civlord

I say leave the library for later, we need the workers up and running, then we need the Mausolleum to handle the food surplus. Library can wait, as the Mausolleum gives plenty of culture and costs no upkeep, we need to keep down costs.

Refer to this post.

Library for later Provo? You contradict yourself all the time. Earlier you said we should rush for Republic and build libraries. Before that, you said we shouldn't build libraries and go at 0%.

This MoM costs 200 shields. Yet we can't afford a 40 shield Library that provides 1 MORE culture point and increases the science of our city?? Let the luxury slider affect ALL OUR CITIES, rather than this one wonder that affects only one city.

We don't have unlimited production, unlike what you seem to think.

We disagree there Ginger Ale, I only want libraries for Styx and Augean Stables to grab the extra culture, do not try to make me look stupid.

I said, go max for Code of Laws and Republic, then zero out science, and only build libraries to get those extra tiles. Civatonia should get the GL and supply the nations with military forces, whereas we need enough workers from Olympus. I am not a culture-junkie, we only need the tiles at a minimum of cost.

I do not think we have, or never said we had unlimited production, that is why I want to reduce libraries, and rather pick some core wonder builds. We may disagree on strategy, but not defame me or be pejorative.

We should get some key wonders, and max out the military impact late ancient.

The library comment had to do with the fact of max research. When you wrote libraries and max research in the same paragraph, I would assume the reason for the libraries is for research, apparently I was wrong. I was not trying to make you look stupid, as this is neither of our faults.

Ginger_Ale said:

Library for later Provo? You contradict yourself all the time. Earlier you said we should rush for Republic and build libraries. Before that, you said we shouldn't build libraries and go at 0%.

This MoM costs 200 shields. Yet we can't afford a 40 shield Library that provides 1 MORE culture point and increases the science of our city?? Let the luxury slider affect ALL OUR CITIES, rather than this one wonder that affects only one city.

We don't have unlimited production, unlike what you seem to think.

Click to expand...

I advocated quick research to republic as well (and I still do). You are of course right that we don't have unlimited production, and should choose carefully. The option to build the Mausollos comes a bit too early, but that cannot be helped, unfortunately. Wonder construction as a rule cannot wait.
In a 'normal' game, I wouldn't think of building this wonder, as it only affects one city. But in this game, where we'll have only 5 reasonably productive cities, it might be a big help, for not so many shields. I am not so concerned about its culture value, as I suspect we will not be trying a 20K or 100K culture victory (or are we? ).
Olympus is our best city by far for a long time to come (which unfortunately is why it is also desperately needed for training workers and building and libraries). This is also why it could use the Mausoleum: this city could easily become a bit bigger than the rest.

Some comprehensive decision is needed. If we stop research altogether, then the library is not needed yet, and a few workers could be trained elsewhere. If we don't, then the decision gets more difficult. Can we afford to delay the Olympus library by some 25 turns? I would like to take that gamble.

Perhaps we should research mathematics first, so that we can calculate some numbers?
[hides]

Building a nice little Mausoleum in Olympus would be nice, but entirely foolish. At this early stage of the game, we must be focusing on more important, and cheaper, improvements. We need libraries, workers (we only have two as our fifth city nears founding), and swords for our nation. It is folly to think that we need the relatively useless MoM in our capitol, and that we can actually build it on time competing with stronger AIs at this point.

OK, it looks like we will have several polls in the works tonight. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to post them now. Here they the polls I will post tonight:

Our Future Government: Republic, Monarchy or Feudalism?

1) Republic
2) Monarchy
3) Feudalism

Build the Mausoleum in Olympus Before Library and Workers?

1) Build it now!
2) Build Library first
3) Build workers first
4) Build Library and workers first
5) Abstain

Research Rate for Remainder of Ancient Age?

1) Max research until Republic
2) Zero research for duration
3) Max research for duration
4) Too early to tell
5) I trust the President


Can you think of any others that will help sort this out? Post them here, and I will generate the polls tonite.

Again, defaming and pejorative statements on alternative strategies. What is wrong with a wonder strategy? Is it not kosher enough for some civ professionals?

I think five well selected wonders may help target our expansion and development.