com1 - Non builder

I have always played as a builder and I'm having difficulty getting out of that habit. This, along with trying to come up with a novel game type has made me think of a non-builder game. I don't know if it will be much good, but it would be interesting.

Version: Conquest 1.22
Civ: Korea
World size: Standard
World type: Pangaea, 70%
Difficulty: Monarch
Barbs: Sed
Conditions: Hot, Wet, 5 billion.

Special rules:

1) You can only build units, Small Wonders and Great Wonders. Nothing else. Ever.
2) Captured cities can keep existing buildings.

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- I'm thinking we would want a small world. If the AI gets too developed we will never be able to compete in production.
- I'm also thinking Pangaea (sp?), we want the wonders to affect as many cities as possible.
- Sun Tzu's will be VERY important. Piramids are nice but with small cities..?
- River cities will almost always take preference since it is the only time we will have cities about size 6, and close placement is a must since the cities can't grow anyway.


I'll probably try this on my own if I don't get any interest here.

Let me know what you think.

Roster
compmage
AndrewN
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24 hours for Got It, 48 after got it to play. Standard GotM exploit rules.

Not a sign up.

First off, you might want to post this in the Succession Game registry as it'll get more attention.

Secondly, I suggest you make it only units and small wonders. Don't build any great wonders. I'd almost say no small wonders either but than you'd never get them.

Methos said:

First off, you might want to post this in the Succession Game registry as it'll get more attention.

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Done, thanks.

Methos said:

Secondly, I suggest you make it only units and small wonders. Don't build any great wonders. I'd almost say no small wonders either but than you'd never get them.

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I don't usually build wonders but I think the only wonders that give any buildings in other cities are Great Wonders (Sun Tzu's and the Piramids). Given that you are probably going to be at war most of the time (maybe make it and AW as well?) barracks would really help.

Interesting idea. I still have the same problem dating back to my Civ I days .

I might be interested if the level isn't too high. I might be able to cope with Monarch or below.

I agree that it should be a pangea, but I don't think we should worry about falling behind in tech, I forsee a lot of pointy stick research . For this reason I would oppose making it AW as we will need to get peace for the techs.

As for the Civ, who knows? A commercial civ might be nice as there will be no courthouses to help with corruption. This leads the the immediate thought of trying Greece as the bonus tech at each age boundary might be useful and a good early defender might make the difference between winning and losing.

compmage said:

I have always played as a builder and I'm having difficulty getting out of that habit.

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lurker's comment: Being a builder is not a bad habit. It's a playstyle, and a good one. But as you wish.

AndrewN said:

Interesting idea. I still have the same problem dating back to my Civ I days .

I might be interested if the level isn't too high. I might be able to cope with Monarch or below.

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I'm the same but if we get some 'better' players we might be able to try this on emporer, though I would prefer Regent or Monarch.

AndrewN said:

I agree that it should be a pangea, but I don't think we should worry about falling behind in tech, I forsee a lot of pointy stick research . For this reason I would oppose making it AW as we will need to get peace for the techs.

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Fair enough, no AW. We should really try to avoid the modern ages though, without factories and powerplants it will take forever to build some of those units.

AndrewN said:

As for the Civ, who knows? A commercial civ might be nice as there will be no courthouses to help with corruption. This leads the the immediate thought of trying Greece as the bonus tech at each age boundary might be useful and a good early defender might make the difference between winning and losing.

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I don't think an early UU will be all that important. With nothing but units being build in most cities we whouldn't have a problem. If anything, slightly higher losses won't be too bad since it will reduce our maintenance costs.

I did find out that the ToA also gives a temple in each city. Assuming that you also get the benefit of a temple culture this would also be an important wonder for us. No cultural buildings could become a problem.

Any thoughts on other game settings?

Anybody else interested? I think I would like at least 3 people playing.

Pentium said:

lurker's comment: Being a builder is not a bad habit. It's a playstyle, and a good one. But as you wish.

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It's not a bad habit, but it hasn't been helping with my Jason scores either. I still prever a nice quiet builders game when I'm playing solo.

lurker's comment: If you're going for a military win, barracks are a must. I would change the rules to allow barracks and disallow wonders. Most military people only build a few wonders, but they like to capture them with military mainly.

Edit: here's a game I did that sounds pretty similar to yours: MP7 - War Mongols

Korea might be interesting. If we get that far then leathal land bambardment might make the game a bit easier.

For Greece I was thinking the higher defence would be useful rather than spearmen.

I had forgotten about theToA, it dose give you the culture for the temple as well as the effect, or it did the last time I built one which was my first game with C3C (hey I had a scientific leader and I had no idea what to do with it). The killer is when it expires as you lose the culture doubling effect, but that won't matter in this game, I don't think we are going for a culture win.

MeteorPunch said:

lurker's comment: If you're going for a military win, barracks are a must. I would change the rules to allow barracks and disallow wonders. Most military people only build a few wonders, but they like to capture them with military mainly.

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lurker's comment:

I am kind of opposed to building barracks, its a bit against the idea of the game. I am not convinced that barracks are as vital as many think.

AndrewN said:

Korea might be interesting. If we get that far then leathal land bambardment might make the game a bit easier.

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I was thinking more interms of getting a late GA so that we can use it to build wonders as opposed to an early GA when their might be nothing we can build. The boast would just mean more military draining our coffers.

AndrewN said:

I had forgotten about theToA, it dose give you the culture for the temple as well as the effect, or it did the last time I built one which was my first game with C3C (hey I had a scientific leader and I had no idea what to do with it). The killer is when it expires as you lose the culture doubling effect, but that won't matter in this game, I don't think we are going for a culture win.

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We can still decide on which victory we ar aiming for, though I think any victory is fine. 100K culture will more than likely be impossible but with enought wonders in a single city we might still be able to get 20k.

AndrewN said:

I am kind of opposed to building barracks, its a bit against the idea of the game. I am not convinced that barracks are as vital as many think.

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No building of barracks. Regulars die more easily but we want that to keep our support costs low. We will be getting Vet from any captured city that already had barrasks. Leaders won't be all that plentyful in this game though.

I'll roll a few starts on Monarch tonight and we can pick one of them (you could do the same of you want.

I think we'll go for the following:
Civ: Korea
World: Pangaea, Standard, 70%
Barbs: Sed
Conditions: Hot, Wet, 5 billion.

For now it will be just the two of us but anyone else that wants to join is welcome.

compmage said:

I'll roll a few starts on Monarch tonight and we can pick one of them (you could do the same of you want.

I think we'll go for the following:
Civ: Korea
World: Pangaea, Standard, 70%
Barbs: Sed
Conditions: Hot, Wet, 5 billion.

For now it will be just the two of us but anyone else that wants to join is welcome.

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OK, I got these 3 as starts







They are all a bit dry for a wet world , but I prefer start 3, unless you come up with something better

I would set barbs higher, as they give more opportunities to promote, and you don´t need to be at war for it too.

Your starts don't seem that great. This is what I got.



Let me know which you prefer, all are with random AI's.

Your number 1 start looks the best, I think there is another bonus under the fog.

It is a little low on food but that should matter much in this game and if we are going for CxxC (best since we won't have culture buildings) the the additional bonus in the fog will be for a second or third city.

I think with only 2 of us for now we will play 20 turns each. I will see if I can get in my turns tonight and post the save later.

compmage said:

It is a little low on food but that should matter much in this game and if we are going for CxxC (best since we won't have culture buildings) the the additional bonus in the fog will be for a second or third city.

I think with only 2 of us for now we will play 20 turns each. I will see if I can get in my turns tonight and post the save later.

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OK.

With regard to the cities we will be able to fill in the gaps with a CxxxC layout, but we will only be able to use the extra space if the city is on a river. It might be an idea to give river cities a bit more room.

Once we have built up a core then the remaining cities can be made into research farms and will need to be that close together.

4000 BC: (1)
Move Worker to Wheat, nothing of interest revealed
Found Seoul on the spot -> Warrior, two more sugars revealed

3950 BC: (2)
Start minimum research on Writing (trying for Republic slingshot)
Irrigate Wheat

3900-3800 BC: (3-5)
Nothing

IT:
Seoul completes Warrior -> Warrior

3750 BC: (6)
Irrigation completes, star road
Warrior exploring N

3700 BC: (7)
Warrior onto hill, plains NW, forests NE

3650 BC: (8)
Warrior moves E, see Ivory

3600 BC: (9)
Worker completes road, move to sugar NE of Seoul to road towards 2nd city site by Ivory
Continue exploring

3550 BC: (10)
Exploring

IT:
Seoul completes Warrior -> Warrior

3500 BC: (11)
Continue exploring, 2nd Warrior finds Gems SW. Two lux will really help with no buildings

3450 BC: (12)
Exploring

3400 BC: (13)
Pop 25 gold from hut and meet Byzantium Warrior to the NE, they are up WC

3350 BC: (14)
Exploring

IT:
Seoul completes Warrior -> Settler

3300 BC: (15)
Exploring

3250 BC: (15)
Pop CB from hut
Byzantium won't give us WC for CB and all our gold

3200 BC: (16)
Exploring

IT:
Byzantium Warrior pops barbs from hut and our only Worker is in danger

3150 BC: (17)
Kill 1 barb Warrior, no promotion
Move Warrior out of Seoul to provide some protection to Worker
Lux tax up to 10% to prevent riot

IT:
Byzantiums kill 1 Barb Warrior, we kill 1 on defence, no promotion

3100-3000 BC: (18-20)
Exploring

A quick first 20 turns. Settler due in 2.
I have left all units unmoved.
Byzantiums looks to be to the N, 2 luxs will be really helpful.

Red and blue dots are my suggestions for 2nd and 3rd cities respectively. For a slightly loser build the red dot can be moved 1 NE and still get the FP that is being irrigated but it would need an extra road to connect.



The save.

Got it

I would prefer the red dot on the other side of the river, but it probably won't make any difference this time.

Com 1, or what are those brick things for?

3000 to 2950 BC - nothing

2900 BC - Seoul settler -> warrior (due in 5)
settler to red spot
The explorations continue and we find a coast to the north and a red border, which I assume is the byzantines. I think we have our first target

2850 BC
P'yongyang founded, warrior due in 5

2800 to 2750 BC - exploring

2710 BC - Seoul warrior - settler (due in 10)
Meet a Babylonian warrior. Hammurabi is cautious, has knowledge of Pottery and Warrior Code but is unable to record this information. The Babylonian empire consists of 2 towns and they have 19 gold and some gems.
Alphabet and 30g gets us Pottery from Hammurabi who is now polite
Pottery goes to Theodora for Warrior code and 10g (all she has)

2670 BC - exploring

2630 BC - P'yongyang warrior - worker

2590 BC - we discover a source of spices nearby

2550 BC - The first caravan containing Ivory arrives in our capital and makes the locals happy. The Byzantines head towards us with a settler.

2510 BC - more exploring. Our southern warrior obtains 25g from a nearby village.

2470 BC - we get a new worker from P'yongyang and start building another one. The southern warriod discovers dyes in the jungles and a pale blue border. Babylon is now up Masonry and The Wheel. We can get either for 3gpt and a big pile of gold. I will wait until I can talk to the new contact.

2390 BC - Ceasar come to talk to us (he isn't the blue civ). He is annoyed with us for some reason (big surprise ). He own 11 gold and has 2 towns in his empire.

2350 BC - Seoul produces a settler, and I feel the need for an archer.
The blue civ is China. Wang Kon is polite, has 10g and knows Masonary and The Wheel, but lacks knowledge of Alphabet, Pottery and Ceremonial Burial. He also has only one town in his empire, the capital. It looks like China had a horrible jungle start.

As there is no other new knowledge out there I sit down with Wang Kon and see if we can come to a deal
Alph, BC and Pot gets us Masonary and The Wheel and 10g
We discover some horses nearby.

2310 BC - the exploring Roman warrior is suddenley injured. Hmm, not sure what happend there, what level are the barbarians set to?

2270 BC - exploriung

2230 BC - found Wonsan, warrior due in 5

2190 BC - exploring

2150 BC - one of our exploring warriors is attacked by some barbarians but wins with no damage.

Final notes:-
We have some nice land nearby, all rivers and grassland. I think we should look at expanding northwards in the first instance ans the south seems to be mainly jungle.
Rome and Babylon have discovered Iron Working which will set us back about 185g
China still has only 1 city and their worker is still in the capital. They might be worth an archer rush to kill them off
The Byzantines are to the north and although I can't see the far side of their lands I would guess their only expansion room is our way.

and some pickies, to the north



and the south



and finally the save