Warhammer Old World (140 x 140) 16-Sept-05

Zyc

Chieftain
Joined
Sep 16, 2005
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Location
Guadalajara, Mexico
First post first map :goodjob:

This is a map depicting the lands of the Old World, Ulthuan, Naggaroth, Albion and the Norse Lands from the Warhammer Universe. It also includes parts of the Chaos Wastelands, Lustria and the Badlands. It was made specifically to work with the Warhammer MOD v2.1. It is fairly accurate as far as Ulthuan, Naggaroth and the Old World go, execpt for their proximity to each other. In the other instances I have taken some artistic liberties since either I did not find enough information about the geography and/or it did not suit the needs of the scenario I'm making for the map. It comes in four versions:

1) All civs available with random starting positions.
2) Only 18 civs playable starting at a predefined starting position. The civs are Reikland, Westernland, Bretonnia, Estalia, Tilea, Kislev, Albion, the Dwarves, the High Elves, the Dark Elves, Chaos, Chaos Dwarves, Ironclaw Orcs, Redeye Goblins, Wood Elves, Norsca, Slann and Sylvannia.
3) The same 18 civs with preplaced resources and cities.
4) Same as before but with the preplaced resources tonned down.

The first two maps have randomized resources placed that I have not checked neither for accuracy nor balance, which you might change if you wish in the editor. The two last one's consider them a preview of a Good Vs. Evil scenario I'm currently developing with modified rules. For such reasons it might play a little odd with the default rules. I was going to include versions for 2.1a but since the map is heavily dependent in the case of the evil factions on the ability to settle in tundra it would take quite a bit o changes for it to work properly. If anyone wishes to edit this and/or other features as well as create your own scenarios feel free to do them and post them. To install simply unzip the contents into your scenarios folder (NOT the conquests one)

Finally I would like to thank all the people who developed the Warhammer MOD since all their hard work really got me going into making this map. I hope you all enjoy it.
 

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  • Old World Moderate.zip
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Yeah, it does seem like a massive amount of resources... what was your thinking?

Next time I play the new War Hammer I will be using this map, it looks like it will be fun!
 
It does have a lot of resources and this was done intentionally. The reason for this is the type of scenario I'm working on for the map. First I wanted massive cities with huge production (think massive battles) but only 8 to 10 cities on average per civ. Secondly I need that each faction be self sufficient and have access to all the strategic resources it needs since most factions are part of either the Evil or Good alliance and so most nations simply can't attack their nearest neighbors for resources. After I get to do some playtesting I will tone down the resources quite a bit but I'm looking to achieve functionality first. If you wish to play a more moderate version of the map try the Standard or Starting versions, and also you can change the resource seed in the editor. In fact I actually recommend doing this since it is kinda dull playing a game with everyone filthy rich and not needing to trade or conquer to get what you need.
 
The map looks good. (although I can't say I've seen a WH map before ;))
Even if you want civs to be self-reliant, that's a lot of resources. Each civ only needs one of each luxury and strategic resource, especially if there isn't going to be a lot of trading. Also making resources rare encourages the player to find good city locations.
Welcome to CFC!!! [party]
 
Nice looking map from screens, d/l'ing now. Just a comment though (and not one involving resources :)

If you plan to expand this into a full WH mod (using 2.1 units / rules but preplaced multiple cities / armies / empires / locked alliances) and I hope you do (would be great) would like to suggest you take RFRE lead and use (create) auto unit generating facilities / wonders while limiting the actual units you can build. Makes it a bit more interesting and more about strategy (as opposed to mob attack).

Fully agree on empire size ... would be nice to only have 8->10 cities per empire, maybe 100 on the entire map (even a huge one). If you go the preplace route, completely eliminate all empires ability to build settlers.
 
Thanks for all the feedback,

After doing some playing myself and reading your posts I decided it was too much after all :blush: So I've posted a new version with tonned down resources. Every civ still has acces to at least one luxury and all the resources they need for their special units, but I eliminated about one half the bonus resources. I also made slight changes to some of the terrain and added one more city to Bretonnia. I've left the old version up just in case someone liked it or wants to try it. The new file is in OldWorldModerate.zip

Tell me what you think about this new map, I'm guessing it will be the final version before I start working more on the scenario. Btw, the no settlers idea is great, I will be posting soon a preview with all the ideas I have for the scenario and would appreciate more advice. Cheers
 
Zyc:

So I have been playing (and modding) the hell out of this scenario and don't want to reinvent the wheel with you Zyc ... here is what I have did. Figure we might as well not step on each other and I don't want to take this in a direction you are uncomfortable with. Much more work and testing to be done.

CHANGES:

-- Replaced all units with proper race units:
---- Humans: Footman -> Race Specific L2 Defender
---- Chaos: Left all Northern Cities the same. Replaced Southern Chariots with 3 cultist's each. Randomly placed 10 or so single cultists (to represent sleeper cells) around the map.
---- High Elves: Replaced Dark Elve Corsairs with Phoenix Guard
---- Nagoroth: Added a single black guard to each city. Added (total of 2) an additional one to the cities on Ulthean. Also added walls, keeps, and castles to Ulthean city. Represents the on going threat in Ulthean side. They are always eventually conquered but takes a 100 or so turns. Added a single Doomrider to each Ulthean city also and 3 Black Arcs near Naggoroth. Allows them to be the raiders they are (and also reinforce Ulthean while never being able to marshall enough forces to conquer them)
---- Slyvania: Replaced ALL. Added to each city 2 Tomb Guards (Immobile). Capitol got a Vampire Lord. Other two cities got a single Vampire. Added 3 skeleton warriors to each city also. Each city also started with a castle, keep, walls. Basically Slyvania was getting smeared (and they still do even with this) and didn't really represent the never conquerable thorn in the Empires sides. Now they do. They hold off for quite awhile yet aren't to powerful. Even an aggressive human player can't do much with the impressive starting army as the Empires massive industrial might quickly kicks in (and pumps out archers like they were nothing).
---- Lorien: Replaced Chaos Orcs with Treemen
---- Human single cities near Dwarven Seaport: Added a single Lvl2 transport ship. Really not that useful but adds to overall feel of game (after all, these colonies had to get here somehow)
---- Albion: Added two green dragons (1 per island). After all, here be Dragons right? Added for feel as overall impact is minimal. By the time they get ships, the mainland is so build up two dragons don't contribute much.
---- Human Cities: Added single roads to connect all cities. Represents human trait of building up empires. Roads (from a feel point of view) didn't make much sense for Elves, Chaos, Orcs, Dwarves, etc etc. Theses folk just don't seem to build roads in a road sort of way.
----- Made each capitol culture 11 and population 12. Each capitol starts with a shrine (otherwise population 12 dies quickly, entertainers can't support + food)
----- Modded race so it starts with smithing. Added Iron to each of the 3 Isolated northern Dwarves cities. Also added one extra defender and a keep. See below for why.

-- Rule changes
----- In standard rules, the AI would just build massive armies and never attack .. just sit their. Increased EVERY RACES aggression by 1. Really helps.
----- Did away with settlers. Game is very playable without them.
----- Problem with turn one agression that I don' t know how to fix (more culture ?? do not raise flag I missed?? etc). If you attack right off the bat (Sylvania -v- Empire turn 2) you raise the city instead of conquering them. This is a problem as no new settlers. Non issue after turn 10 or 15 except if city that refuse to grow (goblins for example). thinking about adding a small wonder to each race that auto generates a single settler every 40 turns. Keeps new settlement super low but does allow them. Makes new cities a much more monumental thing.
----- Going to comment this one the MOD thread also but did away with the expansionist trait. Anything that was expansionist before is now miltaristic. If conflict (for example, Orcs) made them industrial. With the skaven being so powerful, ruins being rare, and no scout units, the expansion trait really doesn't add anything.
Locked Alliances: Made two. High / Wood Elves -v- Dark Elves (makes battle for Ulthein interesting and true to the game). Orcs / Goblins -v- Dwarves (battle over eastern mountains). Dwarves can actually hold there own against both IF they start with walls and smithing.

Game Play comments:

-- I don't play Slann (despise the race concept) so didn't playtest them at all. Would like to see a half Slann / half Amazon continent.
-- Game seem to always come down to Chaos -v- Empire -v- Elves. This is a Good Thing (tm). For increased difficulty, play one of the smaller empires ... they are actually pretty fun.
-- Orcs / Gobins / Naggaroth have issues (lots of tundra / swamp) but the AI seems to handle them well.
-- Would like to see Khemri added.
-- Wish there was a way to add future tech items (or a 100 turn minimum special research level) ... really itching to add a novelty just for fun WH40K infantry unit to each race for those that complete the tech tree and have a 100 turns to waste and haven't won yet for some reason. Would cost something like 100 shields and be 40(40)/40/20/4 unit.
 
Hey Lomion,

As I see it you are modding my map so that it plays like a standard game with changed rules so that it suits the needs of balance for the map. I see no problem in that and when you finish it I guess other people would like to try it, at least I would, so feel free to do so.:thumbsup: The direction I’m taking my own scenario is this:

RECOMMENDED DIFFICULTY: Demigod or above.

STARTING AGE: End of the Ancient Age(first era)

VICTORY TYPE: Quest

RULE CHANGES: Settlers cannot longer be built. They are produced by every nation’s palace once every 50 turns.

TERRAIN:
-Since many nations are situated almost exlusively over tundra it has been changed to work like plains: It can no longer be mined but it produces more food and can be irrigated. Movement over tundra now also costs 2.

PREMISE:

A large battle between a good and an evil alliance. In practice there are really 4 alliances, 2 good (elves and old worlders) 2 evil (Chaos and dark elves).You can win the scenario only by achieving a quest victory. But the quest victory itself has a twist: at least two of the items that you have to build are modded so that you need specific resources to build them which can only be found deep inside the territory of your enemies.

RESOURCES:

-Gold is now a luxury
-Gromril is now a luxury and is also needed to complete your quest victory along with raptors, elephants, warpstone, beastmen and brightstone.
-Notice that some forests are landmark forest terrain, thus they are more productive than regular forests. They can be found mostly in loren, the chaos wastes, naggaroth and ulthuan.

ALLIANCES:

Old Worlders: Empire, Westernland, Bretonnia, Estalia, Tilea, Kislev, Loren, Dwarves

High Elves: Ulthuan

Chaos: Chaos, Chaos Dwarves, Goblins, Orcs, Norsemen

Dark Elves:Naggaroth

Neutral (non-aligned & not playable nations): Albion, Slann, Sylvania

The reason for including two evil and two good alliances was made to reflect the elves’ tendency to go their own way. The High Elves are in a locked war against both the Dark Elves and Chaos, but not necesarilly in good terms with the other nations. The same thing applies to the Dark Elves. Loren is allied with the old world instead of the high elves because I did not want the wood elves to have to conquer a large part of the civilized nations first to get to some real orc bashing and questing in the evil lands, it is not accurate. The neutral nations are not meant to be playable and have a special purpose: Sylvannia is being pumped up to act as a super barbarian tribe. The Slann are an alternative option to completing your quest victory and Albion can be conquered to serve as a stepping stone if you choose to invade your enemies by sea. This is specially useful for attacking Chaos and the elven factions.

NATION DESCRIPTIONS:

Empire: As the civilopedia says the Empire is indeed the largest and most powerful of the human nations. To reflect this they have the most cities and start with three pre-built wonders: Grand Cathedral in Altdorf, Tarnhelm’s Keep in Tabelheim and the Moot in Averheim. Also the Order of the White Wolf can only be built in Middlenheim, as in the real warhammer universe. They are somewhat buffered from the evil forces by Kislev but have to deal with Sylvannia constantly.

Bretonnia: They start with Errantry War prebuilt, which compared to other nations does not seem much, but since the Skaven south of you are much more dangerous than in the real game it is a great advantage. Also they are the second most powerful human nation and start far away from real threats.

Estalia and Tilea: They are far removed from any threat except the Skaven, and start with the Silk Route and Spice Route pre-built respectively to reflect that they are trading nations. Their strenghts are also their disadvantages: they are small and isolated.

Westernland: they are sheltered by the empire from land attacks but are quite small. The should watch out for Norse raiders and build a strong navy. Start with both the lighthouse of Maanan and the Suiddock prebuilt.

Kislev: Of all the good human nations they probably have the hardest time. They are going to get hit early and hard, and since it's a locked war you are going to be in a constant state of siege. To compensate for this they start with the rangers of taal wonder prebuilt, so they get a powerful wonder produced unit early on. Also the wonder is modifyed so that it gives a barracks in every city too.They get their expansionist trait changed to militaristic.

Dwarves: Along with Kislev they bear the worst part of the onslaught, at least in their 3 northern cities. Other parts of their empire are more protected by the prescence of mountains, specially their capital. They start with bugman's brewery prebuilt in their westernmost city.

Loren: They are the smallest Old World nation but are also surrounded by mountains and friends on all sides, so they don't really have to worry about being overrun anytime soon. They start with the tree of ages prebuilt in their capital. Since they are the only landlocked playable nation they have the hardest time fullfilling the quest victory by sea.

High Elves: They are on an island so they have the easiest ride of all the good nations. They only have to worry about 3 things: 1) dark elven corsairs will invade through the rebel cities in the northwest of their territory and their intial army might not be enough to stop them so they must build up fast. 2) They have the fastest ships but they are weak, so late game they might have a hard time with naval supremacy 3) They have no real friends and might find themselves at war with all of the other nations. They don't start with any prebuilt wonders but are the only ones that can build vaul's anvil, the white tower and the new Lothern Lighthouse wonder (a Suiddock type wonder).

Chaos: I'm seriously considering making Chaos non-playable, but might not do it just to let players feel like a real god. They have the most cities, great unique wonders, and I'm changing the availability of their demon and beastman units so that they just pour hordes and hordes of invaders upon the other players. Their only weakness is that they have very poor infraestructure and no real trade throughout the game. All their units can move without penalty through tundra and some through forests, but not through swamps. They start with Chaos moon prebuilt, and are the only ones that can build the altar of ultimated darkness and a new Demon Sumonning wonder (think barbarian invasions in RFRE to get the idea of how this wonder works).

Orcs and Goblins: They start with Waaaghs prebuilt, since the AI does not use armies effectively if you choose not to play either of this civs they will instead produce a special superstrong waaaaagh unit. Since there are not any orcs MU that I know off i will be using something like the troll or wolf chariot for graphics. The waaaagh unit will be about as strong as a great dragon though it will have a movement of 3 with no flying abilities. Also the waaaagh small wonder doubles your cities growth rate now. Orcs get agricultural trait instead of expansionist. The goblins start with the cursed pit prebuilt in their capital and the orcs with the new greenskin infestation wonder that places granaries in all their cities. All their units have no movement penalties when travelling over swamps.

Chaos Dwarves: They are the only nation of the chaos alliance that does not behave like a swarm with über powerful wonders. Instead their land is richer than the rest of the chaotic factions and start surrounded by their allies, so in may respects they play similarly to the Old World nations with an initial build up phase followed by a conquest phase. They start with the gates of Zharr prebuilt and since most of their cities are built on hills this makes them a hard nut to crack. The greenskin units that they build can move freely over swamps.

Norsca: This is the weakest nation of them all since its very poor and its far from its other allies. In fact Norsca was just meant to be another neutral nation in a locked war only with the northern old world nations, but since I ran out of alliance slots I included them as a chaotic faction and got done with it. They have the advantage of being isolated and they start with the norse sagas wonder prebuilt which also works like a great library now to compensate for their almost complete lack of infraestructure and little hope for development. They have only one sure path to success: combined military and naval power so that you can raid, plunder, raid and then plunder some more in good old viking fashion.

Naggaroth: Consider this nation the poor man's version of the high elves. They do begin with the Black Library prebuilt and have some corsairs and black arks at their disposal to begin conquering. They will have to use this early advantages to expand fast to either albion or ulthuan since their homeland is quite barren, even with tundra being pumped up. Their power will diminish if they just keep a low stance. They are not part of the evil alliance and the main forces of chaos are right north of them, buth in reality because of terrain they can only invade them by sea or with air units. Still they should try not to go to war with them. Their units move freely over tundra. They have the seafaring trait added thus they are the only nation that has three.

Albion: Albion lies in the sea lanes between the old world, ulthuan, naggaroth and the chaos wastelands. They are not a playable nation, but it might be wise to conquer the whole of albion or maybe at least a city or two to stage your maritime campaigns. But beware, rumors abound of the prescence of dragons defending this lands of mist. :goodjob:

Slann: The old Slann are an alternative to fullfilling your quest and you might never have to hear from them throughout the game. They have all the resources needed for both sides to complete their quests so you might choose to invade them instead of invading the lands of the other alliances. This might be a good idea in the case of nations like Estalia or Tilea that are removed far from the greater conflicts so you might complete the quest for your side while your allies hold off your enemies. But beware, the lizards are no pushover. The lizardmen themselves will not be able to complete the quest victory.

Sylvannia: They act like super barbarians. I'm changing many things in their game play to make them a real thorn in the empire's side. First of all vampires have hidden nationality now and are slightly cheaper. The mausoleum acts as a great library so they are never far behind in technology and also produces a super vampire army unit (much like the orcs' waaaaagh unit) instead of a skeleton spearman. Their cities are defended by blood dragons, which I have also changed: they are inmobile, cost no upkeep, cannot be built nor disbanded, start as elite, have a +5 hp bonus and a defense of 20, so you only have a real chance to take them out once you get the most advanced magic spells and flying units.

Skaven (barbarians): They have their greatest concentration between Tilea and Estalia. Right now I'm changing this area so that they have their camps built over impassable terrain (even by flying units) so you can never get rid of their camps (remember, no settlers to wipe them out with culture). I'm thinking of using desert since it's basically absent from the rest of the map. They have also their stats greatly increased and set their activity level to raging, so they will give the nations near them a run for their money. They also appear in other regions of the map but not over unconquerable territory.

Amazons???: I might be a good idea to include amazons in the scenario, but i'm still thinking how to do it and if it's worth the effort. I'm thinking probably of including them on an archipielago off mainland Lustria.
 
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