OPERATION I:German Assault Oppurtunity

Yes my fellow Citizens and Soldiers, the time has come. An oppurtunity for the Army's of Fanatiko's to test their metel against the metel of the War-Wearied German Army. Our intelligence gives us the option that the large forces of Barbarian Horseman inside of our territory currently COULD be heading for the German City of Heidelburg. This will open up a window of oppurtunity for our Army's.

For one the German will have barley ANY presence in the south as Heidelburg would've been sacked beyond recognition, and thier treasury drained. Therefore they'll HAVE to move re-inforcements form Berlin of Frankfurt into or near Heidelburg to prevent the city from being sacked. This opens up a window of oppurtunity for us in the German Homeland. The area around Berlin and Germany's Core will be weakened of troops as alot of them would've been sent down to save Heidelburg.

Our Army's of Swordsman will then be free to charge through their territory and head for Berlin.

Army Rally and Set-Up Points
Army Attack Plan Draft

MISTAKE(S) IN DRAFT:
1.I have stationed the Swordsman on the mountaintop near Civatonia, It's better to have them moved to tile EAST of Civatonia becasue of the shorter attack route to Berlin. Sorry for the Mistake.
2.Also in the Attack Plan draft we have it mapped out that the Swordsman will hit Berlin from ACROSS a River, consider that changed, the Swordsman will instead take an extra turn of manuvering and attack from the North-West of berlin instead of From the WEST. Sorry for the mistake.
3.The Hoplite re-garrisoning Plan needs to be edited to change that we eliminate BOTH outskirt defensive positions, and only send TWO Hoplites in to Defend Berlin directly instead. Sorry for the Mistake.
Our War Objective are as follows:

• Capture The German City of Berlin
• Weaken the German Presence to our South
• Gather Intelligence on the Part of Germany we do not know about.
• Get our Army more Experience

Our Army of 8 Swordsman is quite strong indeed, an dis probably more than enough to storm German Lands, You may notice that I've only listed 6 in the Attaqck Plan as I can assume that the other two will probably be wanted on the border near France.

The Swordsman will be our main attack option against Berlin getting us our first German City. But I have another idea up to the north, this is purley optional but would get our Horseman some experience by picking off reinforcements, thus getting us better made Knight's and Cavalry.

This raid will not only get our Horseman more experience but also get us better intelligence on the depth and strength of far Eastern Germany, and also help secure Berlin's saftey by preventing many re-inforcements from reaching the city. I have listed four Horseman as the three we currently have is not enough, I'd like to see at least one more produced rather quickly.

That would be our best bet for an attack plan at the moment.

After the original assault we should then move in a few Hoplites to Garrisonm Berlin and the Surrounding Countryside while our Horseman move out safely.

Horseman Pull-out and Hoplite Re-Garrisoning Plan

Our Horsmean would then pull-out at an angle flanking Berlin peeling away from the main retreat only to pick off exposed units. And our Hoplites would then re-enter the area taking up positions in Berlin and on the Red Dots in the map.

That would finish our "Lightening War" AGAINST Germany, (Ironic isn't it?) as any pro-longed engagement isn't a preferable option at the moment.

Also, Greekguy, I would Like to hear from you on what the FA Deptartment has to say on all of this.

--Minister of Defense:Ranger99

Why not move the swordsmen onto the grassland 2E of Civatonia so they can attack Berlin in 2 turns, not 3?

I find the horses maneuvers to be wasteful. 4 horses (120 shields) to go about pillaging roads and improvements we might use. For experience, they are better picking off barbarians and warriors and archers. 4 horses might not even take a city if the RNG will hate us.

Ahh! I didn't notice that, I usually rally my troops at a strong defensable location to prevent them being ambushed, but we're not at war with them yet, that makes sense, I'll edit that in right away.

I've come to respect Horseman Manuevers, Sun Tzu, pointed out that taking an Enemy City is not worth as much as taking down his Army. They'll be there to pillage, and to pick off the re-inforcements that should come for Berlin once we begin our quick siege of it. We don't need to take a city with them, in fact we SHOULDN'T take a city with them, instead use to to harass the enemy, preventing re-inforcemetns from hitting Berlin is one of their key jobs during the operation, of course as I said the Horseman Operation IS optional it depends on what the citizenry thinks about it, so....

--Minister of Defense:Ranger99

I notice that you have the Swordsmen attacking Berlin across the river. Although this way they can attack on the second turn after entering German territory, attacking across the river will give the German defenders an advantage and make the task of our Swordsmen more difficult. Attacking from the tile NW of the city will avoid the river.

Once more better Furiey, The extra turn of movement is no big deal, it will save lives and that's the important thing here since our production capabilities are so small, I've added that into my growing list of Mistakes!

--Minster of Defense:Ranger99

The swordsmen plan is ok, however I would use more force, all of our swords, plus the one being built in I think Civatonia that is 1 turn away. The French won't attack us, and even if they do, our hoplites will hold out. I agree with Ginger_Ale, the horse core isn't that important. Our horses should however accompany our main attack force and become intel gatherers prior to the declaration of war. I can't post a map toninght, put tommorow I'll be free.

OKay, cool , if everyone agrees that using every bit of offensive power that we have then so be it. I'd prefer not to though, as there are still many threats facing Fanatikos, and the Barbarians may even split away from each other, some prfering to head for Priapos, some for heidelburg, we'll need Swordsman and hoplites to prevent them from extra pillaing. 6 was a conservative number as all of my plans are, and can be increaswed at any time, though I may say that using many more leaves Fanatiko's quite undefended in Case germany pleas for allies, we'll have a number of troops comitted to the German Theatre.

Like I said the Horse Corp, IS optional but I do believe that slowing re-inforcments is critical to keeping Berlin, and it will also up the experience of our Horses as well as give us extra intelligence. They aren't much use to the main column excpept to pull away from the Main Force to attack any forces that threated it, but within the time of three turn the Germans won't be able to react to it. We need to get the Horses to the East of Germany quickly to prvent a German counter-strike and perhaps even extra garrison Forces from another Core German City.

We cannot allow any extra troops to interfere with our Siege of Berlin, if they do then it could all collapse, flanking our Swords, cutting off retreat angles with Defensive Units and picking away at us with Archers.

Remember that although France and Rome fought Germany not too long ago a bit of Gold goes a long way to change a Nation's mind.

--Minister of Defense:Ranger99

I'm going to go on your word that there is a good chance that the Barbarians head for Germany's town of Heidelburg. I wish to know more information about the plan in order to make my decision as both a Senator and Citizen of Fanatikos.

I'd like to know what plans are being made for the timing. There have been polls about declarations of war, and changes to the plan involving the Swordmen who are currently positioned near the Stables becoming part of this plan. This mean that our Swordsmen, who would be our Spearhead into Berlin itself , would take another few years [perhaps 4 or 5 turns] to be completely arranged. Have you considered the timing that will be taken into effect before engaging? Spoken with the FA about the timing of the declaration of war?

I for one would love to have these few turns, for not only being able to get units into position, but also to let the Barbarians attack which way they will (thus giving us room to back off if we see them heading for a Fanatikosian city). Also, has any thought been considered to using your Horse option prior to a declaration of war for purely intellegence gathering? Perhaps in the hopes of having Germany declare war upon us? Also, what do you believe are the chances of these horses surviving in German territory if they do reach the outskirts of Berlin as shown on your map? What amount of counter-attack to these horses are you expecting? Do you suppose these horses could provide a diversionary plan to the main attack force? Most of all, what currently are the plans for these horses (as last time I checked they were optional but seldom spoken of. I believe we should use everything in our arsenal to assure our battles be one-sided).

Lastly, I'd like to hear about what plans are being made for investigating Berlin. Currently, we would be looking at an Investigation that could take 26 gold. Would this investigation be worth it? If you do, do you think we should arrange side-session to do it?

New military leader. i have no problem with your plan but can you give us cooler operation names, like Operation: Take Berlin. Is boring while Operation Hijacking Hun. is fun

"First we take Manhattan then we take Berlin" was a Leonard Cohen tune.

Or "Operation Teuton Temptation" Or "Operation German Vermin" Or "Operation Hun Hunt"

Okay, I'll try to make better Operation names,...

Now for Gerikes, very good points Gerikes, I don't even plan on using our whole swordsman Army at the moment, we have a total of 8 Swordsman and only 6 will probably be used in the assault on Berlin. As for timing, it's tricky but it actually is a tad better if we WAIT a little bit. The Barbarians will rush out of the fog of war at Heidelburg (Hopefully) and the germans will be surprised, it may take them a few turns to organize and send re-inforcements to the area.

I'd say wait until our Units are well into german territory to declare war. Now I think this damages our reputation, but greekguy can be concerned with that, not me, I'm out here to win this possible war in the best way possible, and who ever said that a declraed war was more effective than a surprise one? We want surprise on our side, as well as Bad German Troop Locations.

The Horses wouldn't last long if they didn't have mobility, I want them to be mobile and take up defensive positions until units approach THEn they'll go into a mobile state harrassing them and killing them off by the time they ge tto Berlin. Now there's a good chance that we'll lose a few Horseman, I'm making that clear. But their lives will be lost so that the lives of Swordsman are NOT lost, Swordsman cost more than Horseman, we need to keep their expensive butts alive, The Horsmean may become sacrafices, I hope they don't but the situation may require it so that the Swordsman aren't counter-attacked too heavily.

The Investigation would be nice, but not required, Im pretty sure 6 Swordsman can beat out Berlin. But the investigation would be nice t have.

I feel that investigating Berlin will be a Good Thing. What would happen if we discovered that there are 5 or more spearmen defending Berlin? Would that affect our plans?

Also, I would like for you to consider some contingency plans. First, what happens if the initial attack fails? At what point should our forces retreat? At what point should they attack for a second time? At what point should they call off the attack?

Second, what if Germany refuses peace after the taking of Berlin? What are our next steps to bring an end to the "quick" war?

While I'm hopeful that things will go as expected, I must point out the difficult scenarios to make sure they are covered in your instructions. This is a rather important undertaking for us - let's do it right!

Thanks!
-- Ravensfire, President of Fanatikos

ravensfire said:

I feel that investigating Berlin will be a Good Thing. What would happen if we discovered that there are 5 or more spearmen defending Berlin? Would that affect our plans?

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My thoughts exactly. A lot of what these plans are revolve around the idea that Berlin specifically will be open to attack due to a Barbarian attack on their fringe city Heidelberg. I have my doubts, although I do realize that even without the Barbarians attracting attention we should be able to pull off a Berlin conquest. The question to me really is what shape we will be in directly after that. Some other thoughts:

1.) We have no intellegence as to what amount of forces are in Berlin. Remember that Germany was in a long war prior to signing peace with Rome. In that time, they could've lost a ton of units, but on the other hand spearmen inside Berlin might be well experienced defending their Capitol, and in good numbers too.

2.) Currently, we have eight hoplites. The plan wishes two to remain on the outskirts of Berlin, and at least one inside of Berlin. This is at least three hoplites, leaving five for the rest of the nation. What part of these remaining five hoplites will be heading to Berlin? What part of these remaining five hoplites will be defending cities in Fanatikos, and where?

3.) Lastly, the horse pull-out from the south seems like a direct route from their position to Fanatikosian territory. Would it be better to lead them in a route through or near Berlin, as a safer form of travel rather than near the city of Cologne? Or is this direct route necessary to return home quickly?

Here's my war plan map, hopefully this can change the opinions of anti-war citizens:




Here's a more in-depth explanation of the specifics of the map:

First of all the two blue lines that flank the brown one both represent 2 horsemen each. The brown line is the core of 6 or more swords. I considered the red lined barb horse a possible threat, because if it heals which I think it can, it can attack our company of 2 swords, making our strike on Hidelburg a possible failure. Civatonia will of course be our troop rally point and dispatchment point. All attacking units will be sent to their respective strike points and carry out their assignments. I mentioned an assault on Cologne on as a mere suggestion. If Cologne is razed, this would effectivley prevent the French and Romans from attacking Germany without going deep into Western Germany. Also, we would have a clear sight of any enemy movements from Berlin and Civatonia, without dealing with entering enemy borders. This whole operation would of course occur after the Gepid's attacked Hiedelburg, if they don't the plan whichever is picked would be aborted.

Ranger99 I would suggest either picking a map to use, or combine the two. You could of course put up a poll but I doubt many citizens would have a chance to vote. I hope this you by showing you another angle of the War with Germany.

Mr. President, Gerikes, please visit ALL of my future threads becasue you actually force me to think things thourgh better and plan for EVERYTHING, I try to cover a lot of angles, but outside help, and outside DETAILED help such as you two are the best things a Defense Minister could ever hope for!

Okay now. Governor, Mr. President, I DO want intellignce now, It seems that we will probably NOT attack this TC from the way the poll looks, but our Window could still be there. So, I'd like to have funds authorized for the Defense Ministery to conduct an investigation of Berlin, and I'd also like the Horse near Priapos to make a shoot inbetween Heidelburg and Cologne, so that we can watch German troops move from location to location, while still keeping an eye on The barbarians, the Horse being produced in Civatonia will then contiue to the Horse rally point and then line up, and move ahead of the Swordsman to keep the siege protected.

Alright #2 Changed in the plans, eliminate the outlaying Hoplite positions I had thought of this simply to defend and hold more countryside. But take one out, elave it as Mobile Defense or staic defense either in Civatonia or up North. nad take the remaining two and garrison them directly in Berlin.

#3 I don't think it should really matter, it all depends if they are being tailed by any Germans, if they are make the route more cirved, and out-run them, if they aren't just take a quick run back home and prepare them to charge back into Germany should something go wrong.

BUT I do have bith you Governor, and Mr. President on one thing, Mr. President you noted howour siege could take more than one turn. I've taken that into accoutnt, that's what our our Horseman are for, I said they'd block re-inforcements and in a one turn siege there aren't many re-inforcements to block, as they then ar etermed, counter-strikers. But our horseman will hold the Germans off long enough to give our Swordsman at least three turns of consecutive assaulting, after that pull Swordsman out and cut our losses while the cheaper Horseman keep the germans off our Swordsman backs.

Map to follow.

--Minister of Defense:Ranger99

We still risk failing, you know that. We can't risk a war now, but perhaps later...

Dominus of course we risk failing, life is risk and so is war, but the sceret is to calculate and whittle down your risks to the lowest percentage possible, that's where co-ordination, planning and experience come into play, we CAN take Berlin quite easily, Operationally we are sound Logistically we're still shaky.

--Minister of Defense:Ranger99

Ranger99 said:

Dominus of course we risk failing, life is risk and so is war, but the sceret is to calculate and whittle down your risks to the lowest percentage possible, that's where co-ordination, planning and experience come into play, we CAN take Berlin quite easily, Operationally we are sound Logistically we're still shaky.

--Minister of Defense:Ranger99

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I do not deny we can take Berlin easily... But a WAR has other things involved. Germany can sign a military alliance with Rome or France, a bad RNG mood can destroy our soldiers without giving us a german city... We should also consider that.

I've accounted for the Alliance factors already, many people wanted out WHOLE force of Swordsman to move in for the assault, I won't do that though as money can loosens anyone's interests, instead I shall keep two more Swordsman on the border of France to stop any assault should they attack us.

RNG is a random thing and that factor cannot be helped, I want to capture Berlin get a strong defensive Presence in the area and then sign peace with Germany, waging a full war of destruction is not possible for us yet, our production capabilites cannot reach that par.

--Minister of Defense:Ranger99

dominus romae said:

I do not deny we can take Berlin easily... But a WAR has other things involved. Germany can sign a military alliance with Rome or France, a bad RNG mood can destroy our soldiers without giving us a german city... We should also consider that.

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Germany was in a very long, bloody war with Rome for most of the early part of the known history of this world. France too was in that war against Germany as well for a brief period. Even though France now has a RoP with Germany, I still see it as a small chance of France or Rome allying against us with Germany (and even smaller that they both do). After all, they are both considered Friendly with us.

If that does happen, we can still hold out. Rome will most likely become a very strong ally, and hopefully the Embassy in Persia can help gain us their support too. Of course, FA Minister Greekguy (who, last I saw, was is in support of this war) could probably tell you more about this.

The longer we wait to take a city, however, is another turn we'll be without a sixth city, furthering our 5CC handicap.