civ4 expansion civs: The List

Since there has been a call for more civs in cvi4, which most certainly will come in the expansion, and there are quite a few forums all over the place with people screaming for their own favourites, I thought we could make it easy on Firaxis by making a formal list. Let's not make it too kooky (sorry, Luxemburg does not qualify as a civ), keep the leaders and traits and reasons out, we know how cool all the nations of the world are, and give priorities to civs which have proved themselves in previous civ games but been left out. This is about balancing.
Divided among the continents:

Europe:
The Vikings
The Dutch
The Celts

Africa:
The Zulu
The Carthagians

The Americas:
The Maya
some northern natives?

The Middle East:
The Babylonians
The Ottomans

Asia:
The Khemr
The Koreans

Oceania:
?

In all likeliness Korea, kwaZulu, Babylon and a native American civ are shoe-ins. Chances are that there would also be an assortment of European civs thrown in to overstate that particular region.

Here is a list of civilizations that should definitely be included with preferably a patch, but if they want to milk money from us, an expansion:

1) The Zulu: Why is the Mali in the game? Shaka Zulu is my favorite miniseries, and they have always been a Civ. Why leave the Zulu behind? I will tolerate the Mali but in the meantime, work on getting the Zulu in the game.

2) Carthage: Great civilization, Hannibal rules.

3) Soviet Union: It is entirely different from Russia, and it would be nice for America to have a more "modern" nation to compete against. Leaders could be Stalin and Lenin.

4) Babylon: This is a must. Hammurabi is rolling in his grave!

aahz_capone said:

Europe:
The Vikings
The Dutch
The Celts

Africa:
The Zulu
The Carthagians

The Americas:
The Maya
some northern natives?

The Middle East:
The Babylonians
The Ottomans

Asia:
The Khmer
The Koreans

Click to expand...

Nice list, but replace
Dutch with Polish,
Zulu with Ethiopians,
Some other North American natives with Iroquois,
Ottomans with Turks (only name) and
perhaps Babylon with Assyria (or melt them together, two leaders)

BUT the most important thing for civ4 aren't the civs anymore, but the leaders, so add
Ramesses II for Egypt,
Pericles for Greece,
Marc Aurel for Rome and
a second for Mesopotamia!

That would add 15 leader (graphics). We won't get that much. If they add one more trait, we get 9 traits which means 36 possibilites. 36 total - 26 in vanilla = 10 new leader.
If I add up my suggestions, I get 15 new leaders, which 5 would I eliminate?
Ethiopians,
one leader for Mesopotamia only,
the Polish
the Mayans and
as bad as it is, the Khmer...

mitsho

There has been one civ neglected in all versions of Civilization: the Mughals.

Civ IV finally added the Taj Mahal, a Mughal great wonder. Now they should included the civilization that created it.

A simple fix would be to add a third leader for India, Akbar, Emperor of India. But a Mughal special unit would be necessary to add, and its not the war elephant or fast worker. Mughals took India with artillery, and giving them a canon that has better attack against mounted units plus retreat would be a good idea.

@ aaahz capone
I like the list and agree with Mitsho that the iroques have to be added as the native americans. maybe the abberigionals should be a civ for oceania (although they're not really a big and influential civ)

@Mitsho
Why leave the dutch out and add the polish? as far as i know (and i'm certainly no historian) the polish didn't add that much to world history. The Dutch were one of the greatest civs during the age of colonization and also the onely civ who were able to trade with the japanese (all the other civs wanted to convert the japanese, the dutch wanted money)

I still wish they would add the Israelis in. After all judaism is in the game. I know most peoples reason for them not being in would have to do with them being to small or not influential enough. The problem with that is that they are an ancient nation, once controlled a large/vital part of the middle east (and in a way still do), there modern military is extremely strong, and some of the most culturally significant events in history have involved there people and nation (the birth of christianity, the holocaust, etc)

I think the civs that are included should be ranked heavily on how culturally influencal they have been, not necessarily entirely on how large there land mass or population has been.

Expansion?

Someone's cart is before the horse...

How about getting THIS release to work correctly first!


Later!

--The Clown to the Left

For Europe i would like the ...
... the Bavarians ...

heppcatt

I was praying for the Morovians until I realized that the Bohemians should get in there first.

When will the Etruscans ever get a turn?

Byzantines!!!!

Um, why were the Zulu included in civ in the first place. They aren't really a civ, and the Mali or Ethiopians are MUCH better. For Oceania, how could you not forget the Polynesians! I would like to see either the Dakota or the Iriquois in the game, as well as the Byzantines, Turks, or Austrians. As for Asia, definitely the Babylonians, someone to represent southeast Asia (maybe the Veitnamese or the Khmer). As far as Europe, hmmm... it's tough. Maybe the Dutch or the Polish or the Portuguese. But we surely need more leaders for some civs. I would like to see

Egypt: Ramses II
Greece: Pericles
Rome: Nero (don't ask), Constantine
America: Jefferson, Lincoln
Spain: Carlos I, Francisco Franco
England: William the Conqueror
Japan: Meiji

That's all I can think of right now.

wilcoxchar said:

Um, why were the Zulu included in civ in the first place. They aren't really a civ, and the Mali or Ethiopians are MUCH better. For Oceania, how could you not forget the Polynesians! I would like to see either the Dakota or the Iriquois in the game, as well as the Byzantines, Turks, or Austrians. As for Asia, definitely the Babylonians, someone to represent southeast Asia (maybe the Veitnamese or the Khmer). As far as Europe, hmmm... it's tough. Maybe the Dutch or the Polish or the Portuguese. But we surely need more leaders for some civs. I would like to see

Egypt: Ramses II
Greece: Pericles
Rome: Nero (don't ask), Constantine
America: Jefferson, Lincoln
Spain: Carlos I, Francisco Franco
England: William the Conqueror
Japan: Meiji

That's all I can think of right now.

Click to expand...

William the Conqueror would be better off being French.
The English need henry VIII or Winston Churchill.
Give the Germans Hitler but make it an option rather than a in no matter what. Contentious it may be but none the less accurate.
Add Zulu's as they are amongst the most well known of all African Peoples.
Sioux Indians, they've been in before so no harm adding them again.
Add the Dutch along with a map of Europe that is scaled to allow all European Civs to be on it at once.
Vikings, what is history without them... very quiet.

In general I agree most with mitsho.

I think that for the expansion, then the nations with one leader should get a second one to add more flair to them. It would also be a little simpler than making a new civ from scratch. Having said that, there are a few notable exceptions which could be included.

I would like to see the following additional leaders:
Aztecs: No clue. Not knowledgable about Aztec history.
Greece: Not my strongest area, but Pericles seem a good choice.
Japan: Without knowing the name, then one of more modern emperors would seem a good choice. the transistion from feudal to modern nation in the late 19th century was a big thing and that emperor could be a good choice.
Persia: A hard one. Neither Dareius or Xerxes seem to be good choices. If we include later age Persia then possibly Shapur II or maybe Khusrau who was leader of Sassanid Persia during their golden age.
Arabia: Difficult due to obvious reasons. Possibly Harun al-Rashid or one of his sons.
Egypt: No discussion. Ramses is our man
Rome: Augustus of course. Arguably the greatest of all the Roman leaders. Why Caesar is in is a mystery, but is probably due to name recognition.

Inca, Spain and Mali is open to discussion.

Of missing nations I feel the game could do with the Vikings, the Dutch/Portuguese, Korea, Ethiopia, Zulu/Ghana, Mayans, Babylon/Assyria and a north American tribe. Oh, and of course the Byzantines under Justinian.

Haarbal said:

@Mitsho
Why leave the dutch out and add the polish? as far as i know (and i'm certainly no historian) the polish didn't add that much to world history. The Dutch were one of the greatest civs during the age of colonization and also the onely civ who were able to trade with the japanese (all the other civs wanted to convert the japanese, the dutch wanted money)

Click to expand...

Simple, The Dutch are a small nation with a huge influence. Nobody denies their impact, but the polish rank a little on top of them, because...
...they fulfill the quote of Eastern Europe, and not add another Western European nation (of which we have already 4 - England, France, Germany and Spain - and of which we'll get certainly the Vikings on top!)
...they were one of the most influential nations of Eastern Europe, the Magyars would be another option, but the Poles just have been neglected too many times.
...the Dutch are nevertheless a small civ which culturally is close to France, England and Germany (just look at the language for the last one!), while the Poles add a distinct culture with about the same political importance.

What the Polish have done? I think having played a big part on the medieval political parcett is one point, the other being that they had (together with Lithuania) I think the biggest Empire on European soil during the Middle Ages. Besides that, there's always Solidarnosc - or how do we destroy an Empire with peaceful means.

mitsho

PS: I say this as a Swiss..

The Polish would be cool, you could have the Winged Hussar as their unique unit as well.. awesome.

From what I remember of history in the area around Poland, the Poles blunted the expansions of both the Mongols and the Ottomans, effectively insulating western Europe from the concern of being conquered by both huge empires, allowing western Europe to remain fracticious enough that technological and intellectual progress could be massively driven forward there.

I say the Poles should go in.


I'd quite like the Austrians to go in too, seeing as the German civ definitely has a very Prussian streak to it and effetively excludes Austria from itself.

It would be good in the next expansion if they bumped up all the civ's leaders to 2 or 3 each, including in the civs they add. Hope the dutch get in.

For that we need to have a few more traits, BALANCED traits. Could you therefore propose one or two balanced and diverse traits. It's not as easy as it sounds, is it?

mitsho