New Toltec UU: Atlantes Soldier(10/27/05)

At the height of its splendor, Tula, the capital of the Toltec Empire, had around 40,000 inhabitants who practiced agriculture by means of small systems of dams and canals, since rain was scarce in the area. It would seem that related families built their houses next to one another and separated them from the outside world with walls.

The ceremonial center of Tula has pyramids, rooms and ball courts. The site is characterized by the great warrior figures known as Atlantes.




and now out of the jungles of mesoamerica and into your civ3 game, the Atlantes are ready to conquer!

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads10/Atlantes1.zip

this is your best unit.
however the death could use some work, along with fortify, I dont know what he is doing there.
victory is strange, but I think I like it ^ ^
I also suggest you have his kness bend alittle.

perfectly willing to improve him . I thought I'd try something new for the fortify. Thankyou for your kind words Shiro. It means alot coming from you since you have high standards.

Well done again, friend! Don't know if he has a place in Aztec but I'll sure try to fit him in.

He looks like a king! Well done

very nice...the detail is excellent...he will have a place with my Rapa Nui, or Mercosur Civs...

Your Unit Design skills are definately getting better, SoG! This is a really nice evolution that were all seeing I think.

I will chime in as well about the Death animation. Almost looks as if he is being killed in slow-motion (frame rate aside)! He appears to be rolling up into a little ball hehe!

Other than that, its great to see SOMEONE is still gonna be making units for Civ III, though I'm sure its Golden Age is over now that Civ IV has arrived (which I most likely will not be buying).

Keep it coming!

Well Civ4, the main game, is actually better than Civ3. Currently it isn't possible to add units and such, wonders, buildings or leaderheads to the game, but those tools are being worked on now. Trust me, civ4 will have everything Civ3 has and more, such as the option of unlimited eras, unlimited culture groups, unlimited number of civs etc. Once Dom Pedro II(who I have been in communication with) figures out how to bring Poser stuff into Civ4, I will be moving as well. But it will be several months I believe, until that happens.

Remember, Civ3 didn't allow you to add units either...

Don't worry Atlantis, Civ4 isn't a bad thing, after all, Rhye, Kal-el and other of our very board members helped make the modding tools. Its only a matter of time.

Think of Civ4 as not truly released yet. And enjoy Civ3, since I will be making units until that fateful day arrives when I will be able to make units for Civ4.

This is unit is a step forward.
Some comments to help you on your next effort.
The Civilopedia icon is a bit off. It has purple fringing and seems a bit like a blown up lower-res image. For my units I re-render the icons seperate to improve quality. For the civilopedia, it would work better if rendered against a white background.
Also, as I learned from Vuldacon, the unit32 icon should have a red civ color not blue.
The unit animations are ok, but the palette was too restrictive. I don't have photoshop on the computer I'm on at the moment, but it seemed you may have used a 16 colors for the unit rather then 160 colors on (based on looking at the palette). There seems to be some odd colors on the unit as well, this is probably a result of this lower color count. Other palette issues such as re-using the exact shade of yellow, and setting one of the smoke/opacity colors to a similar shade of yellow.
What unit did you base the unit scale on? He seems just a little small, though not a big deal.
The death animition needs work. He floats up in the air and rotates. His feet should be anchored on to the ground when he starts to crumble. You should only remove this anchor after his butt/back hits the ground. Also this animation is a little slow.
The fortify animtion looks very strange. He jumps backward and floats a little. This does not seem to be a move in preperation to an attack/defense.
Also remember this animation is played before the attack animation. I suggest the following change. Have him crouch down slightly and bring his arms up (bent at the elbows). Then have the attack animation begin with him attacking from this position.
The run animation is fine, but too slow. It looks much better if you increase the frame rate to 62 (from the default of 80).
I suggest that the victory be pared down to not have him doing the baton toss, but just raise his hands in victory.

I hope you found this helpful. With your steady improvement, I'm look forward to your next unit.
btw: you know Civ4 will not support unit creation with Poser, Bryce, POVRay, etc, right? It will exclude you, me, Aaglo, Wyrmshadow and 99% of the unit creators.

Not true. I have been doing some research into the matter. It will be posable to make units for Civ4 using all the programs we have now. Just wait and see.

Bjorn: If you have tested my unit in game, you will see it is flawless. Flicster doesn't play the animations the same speed as they go in game. But I agree on the death idea. You don't like the victory?

Your Unit:
My comments had allot more in suggestions other then unit speed. I did tested in Flicster & Civ3FLCEdit. I have found that units that look good in those two typically look good in game. There are the occasional exceptions, but it is good for a rule of thumb.
The biggest problem with the victory is the guy's motion has not relationship to the action the weapon takes. The Baton-twirl might work better if he bent his arm and wrist some. Suggestion: if you want to include such action, act them out a little ant take note of your joints and positions.
I don't dislike your attempt at a unique victory, etc... I do this myself. I think such exercises make great learning tools. I use them that way myself. I learn more from my failures then my successes. But, you have to be prepared to not use stuff when it doesn't quite work. I think the baton-twirl done allot lower (torso height) would make a for a very interesting fidget.


Civ4
Tell me I'm wrong, but offer no facts to support your position. The "is not, is too" method of debate is not my preferred method. So, we shall see on the unit creation; I hope you are right, but I followed the mod-threads fairly closely and there is nothing there to show we can make units the same way or using the same tools. In fact the in game units are quite nasty low-poly looking.
The word from the experts was 3ds max would be required. Later it was said they "might" come up with a way to import Civ3 stuff. But this is a unsubstantiated rumor and was never attributed. In other words someone seems to have made something in a rush of wishful thinking. The look of the units in game supports the original info. Low poly meshes made in 3ds Max with medium to high detailed textures. The result is mostly inferior to Civ3 units. Where the best of them are high-detail mesh & high detail textures.
Poser does not produce proper meshes. It can be used to make limited OBJ meshes, but it is a animator more then it is a modeler. This considerable limitations, this OBJ can be converted to a 3ds but you will lose the textures. POVRay is both a modeler and an animator, but it does not produce a 3ds compatible mesh at all. Bryce is a crummy modeler, but brilliant animator and is especially good at hard surface units. It can use a 3ds mesh, but it can not produce one. The list goes on and on.
Now consider the % of the human type models made with Poser, most of them. Consider the hard surface models made in Bryce, a VERY large percentage when you consider that Wyrmshadow alone has done 4-500 units. Add in Aaglo and Orthanc, both prolific POVRay users. UtahJazz = Poser, and others using other programs with either very limited or no 3d max compatibility. This completely ignores the fact (for simplicity sake) that almost none of us own or are willing to buy a 2-3000.00 software package to make Civ units.

I just got a copy of Civ4 Special Edition for 1/2 price from a co-worker that bought it and hated it. So, while I remain firmly in the Civ3 camp, I will investigate it more fully some time this weekend (time allowing).
It will be interesting to see what the SDK includes.

He isn't twirling a baton at all, he he throwing his weapon in the air and catching it...

There are going to be tools for adding units from Poser and other programs, just you wait and see. Remember that Civ3 didn't allow adding units at all orginally. Do not be a pessimist. Eventually all of us will be moving to Civ4, I know I will, once the tools are out.

I can't test the unit yet, I'm in California for a business trip and I don't have Civ on my laptop.

I'll test it as soon as I'm back (next week end)

Sword_Of_Geddon said:

He isn't twirling a baton at all, he he throwing his weapon in the air and catching it...

There are going to be tools for adding units from Poser and other programs, just you wait and see. Remember that Civ3 didn't allow adding units at all orginally. Do not be a pessimist. Eventually all of us will be moving to Civ4, I know I will, once the tools are out.

Click to expand...

re: the baton, I know he is tossing his spear up in the air. I was just pointing that his actions looked somewhat like a baton twirl.
Please take my comments (bad baton jokes and all) as just an attempt to offer some help.

re: Poser -> Civ4 units. I am certain you are wrong. I hope you are not.
Either give some basis for this arguement or stop making it. I have used both Poser and 3d Studio Max, and they are completely different sorts of tools. Since there is almost no commonality to them, please either share your knowledge or say more clearly that this is just wishful thinking.
Since I would not mind using POSER to make units, though I prefer BRYCE. I just don't want to use 3d Studio Max.

A Toltec unit is something I've looking for, so kudos for trying one!

However, it's got some issues; the victory and death anims don't make sense mechanically, and the guy freezes for to long at the end of the attack anim. I'd love to use this for the Toltec unit in the Maya scen, but I won't unless and until these issues are fixed.

Your skills are definitely improving, and I have any full confidence you can bring this unit up to top-notch standard.

Bjorn: Well, I know it is possible to use 3DS format files in Poser. It also is possable to export Poser files into other programs, including 3DS. Currently, what I am thinking, is that the two creators I know of who have 3DS, Dom Pedro II and Kinboat, could act as arbiters for the other creators. Also it may be possible, since I think I'm the only one with Poser 6, to export in Nif format.

LastConfortmist: You don't like the attack or Victory animations? I could speed up the attack for you in Civflicedit I think. As for the Victory, you really think I should redo it?

This is definitely a big improvement on the earlier ones. Well done!

I agree with some of the points made before, though. The problem with the Victory animation is that his arm doesn't move naturally in a "weapon-tossing" kind of way, so it looks odd. Similarly, in the Death animation, he seems to curl up before he hits the ground (in fact I don't think he hits it at all), which looks equally odd.

Remember that the Fortify animation has to be the first part of the Attack animation, as it were. I don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with having him jump back for this animation, but it does look odd how he then apparently slides forward again. What's going on?

Finally, the Attack animation doesn't cycle properly - that is, he lunges forward, then he's suddenly lunging forward again without moving back first, and so on. If this were a smooth, continuous movement, it would look a lot better.

I think these gripes should be fairly easy to fix, given that you've got a good model and you seem to be animating it well. It's just a matter of giving it more appropriate animations, I think, rather than anything more profound. So I reckon that if you address these issues you'll be doing very well indeed. I'm impressed at how quickly you seem to be getting the hang of this!

Good unit! I think that lightwave better than 3DSMAX... Maybe...

Cool! What's next?

next is another Mesoamerican unit, a Plumed Archer, then I will be doing a new japanese unit for Shiro, then back to Mesoamerica for one last unit, then Steph has some requests I'm going to honor.. I'm going to fix this one first though, new death, faster attack, better victory.