LotR16 Happy Halloween

Arathorn

Catan player
Joined
Jan 10, 2002
Messages
3,778
Location
Illinois
So, it's not technically Halloween yet, where I live. Pretend I'm in Germany. It's the 31st somewhere!

Roll the dice. No Raging Barbs as that’s a custom choice and I did a quick start. Oh well. One less issue to deal with. We’re America, so we have the Navy SEAL as our UU. We start with fishing and agriculture, so we have some good worker actions already. We’re the FDR version of the Americans, so we are Industrious (+50% Wonder build rate and half-price forges) and Organized (less city maintenance costs and half-price lighthouses).



(0) 4000 - OK, I hate this choice. Moving the warrior is easy. We have Clams just off the coast. But we couldn’t take advantage of them with our city where it’s started. Getting both the cows and the clams is possible, but not on the coast. [NOTE: What was I thinking when I wrote this? One north of where we started would have been ideal. OY!] Lots of fresh water around, but…. I wish I had a bit more experience.

The suggestion is to settle in place…which probably means we’d get some extra resources by settling in place. But we’d waste a flood plain. I don’t know WHAT to do. I like the food of flood plains, both for faster growth here earlier and to potentially support specialists later. I eventually move SE to the plains and then re-evaluate. Not a terrible choice -- reveals some horses nearby, a lot more flood plains, gold, and probably some wasted tiles to the NE. <Shrug> I’ll settle the plains, though. We’re gonna have to make sure we don’t overgrow our happiness, though, with Washington, though our health will be bad very soon.

There’s actually a TON of gold in the area, but we’re not well positioned to take advantage. Hmmmpph. I order up a warrior.

Animal Husbandry, with cows and horses nearby, is the natural first research choice. We’re going to do something a bit different, eschew religion for a while, and work on developing a strong, powerful civ based on population and cities.



(5) 3800 - What hut did we pop? Anyway, we get mining. We’re going to have some sophisticated workers very early.

(10) 3600 - Just exploring. Small stretch of land to the NW ends early. I seem to explore the wrong way consistently. Washington is size 2 and VERY unhealthy -- we’re at our limit already. Darn flood plain disease. We’ll hit size 3 about the time the warrior pops and then I’ll do a worker. There’s plenty he can do.

(11) 3560 - Animal Husbandry comes in. And the exploring warrior just found Stone, so I take it as a sign we need to be able to quarry stone and order up Masonry next. What do I know?

(13) 3480 - Warrior finally completes. He’s gonna be in Washington for a bit, but then the old explorer will take over and he’ll go east, as I think I’ve found everything to our west.

(14) 3440 - Put one turn into warrior but switch to worker. We’re unhealthy already, but we can crank out a worker fairly quickly, actually. Then it’ll probably be a settler.

(15) 3400 - Buddhism founded somewhere. We’re … ummm … NOT going the religion route in this opening game. Workers. And settlers once I can get to them.

(19) 3240 - Masonry in. Wheel started. We’ll need the roads to help with health from the cows.

(21) 3160 - Enter a village. Get a warrior. I’m actually extremely happy about that. We’re shield/unit poor at this point. I’ll use him as another explorer briefly, but he might be best used as a guard for our second city.

Ruh-roh!


(24) 3040 - Let’s hear it for the defensive bonus of forests! (Higher than hills this game -- be warned!) Our warrior in a forest defends against the attacking lions. Barely, but we survived. He’ll heal. We look stuck on a small island here. This is looking very tough.

(25) 3000 - Wheel and worker come in. Sailing started, as it looks like we’ll need boats sooner rather than later. And the worker is going to go to the cow instead of the closer horse, as it gives more food/shield benefit, which is what we need for more workers/settlers to fill our small island. Not to mention the health bonus, which is like another extra food, since Washington is already unhealthy.

And I screw up and leave the queued warrior from before for a turn before going to the settler we so desperately need. Only one turn, but….

(30) 2800 - Well, I was able to confirm we are on a relatively small island all by ourselves. Just us and the barbs/animals. If we settle reasonably quickly, we might not need too many military units. My fog of war is VERY DARK, so it’s hard for me to plan much in terms of cities, but we have room for enough for a reasonable start.



So, founding order doesn’t matter and I’m not the happiest with the dotmap. It’s a little tighter than I’ve been building before, but I want to not waste squares. And we ARE Organized (10 cities is actually quite a few). If exploration after Sailing shows us good stuff, we can modify. Note: Yellow dot is the NW-most tip of land and might not show clearly. I tried to put up signs, but I don’t know how to do that in Civ4. It’s said to be possible, but…. Any help on that would be appreciated.

In the meantime, I think our worker should road the cows to Washington, then pasture the horses, and then maybe irrigate some floodplains (others will need cottages). I would keep Washington on settlers/workers at size 3 until we get another health resource (clams, rice, fish, sheep) on board to help it grow. Yes, an irrigated flood plains WILL produce enough food for an unhealthy citizen and to grow, but it can take a while. I might be wrong, but that’d be my general approach. City #2, wherever it ends up, should do a bit of military and some exploring ships. Let Washington produce the settlers/workers for now, I think.

Research-wise, I think Writing is a high priority, as that opens up Libraries, which are our only/best source of culture at the moment.

Roster:
Arathorn -- just played
Speaker -- UP NOW -- 20 turns
Arizona_Steve -- on deck -- 10 turns
Reagan
Jaffa Tamarin

And we’ll all play 10 after Speaker, for all time.

Arathorn
 
I put together another dotmap that hopefully make better use of the terrain. The key to my map is city specialization. I'm not saying that my map is better than Arathorn's, or that his map is bad, as it definitely makes use of all (or as many as possible) of our tiles. But hey, let's try out city specialization, which the game developers were going for! Our main problem on this island is that, with the exception of Washington, we are food poor. None of the proposed coastal cities will grow very far for a while. I'd like to have one more powerhouse city to join Washington. Another city that can be the center for industry and production. A good ol' northern city. So this is what my dotmap for the southeastern part of our "continent" looks like:



Blue dot in the center is our powerhouse. NOt only that, but it will easily hook up rice to help out with health. Blue dot could supply much of our military, or can be (nearly) strictly for wonder-building, leaving military production to...

Black dot will have decent production with the two hills and the grassland forests. How good it is will depend on how many of Blue dot's tiles we let it have.

Red dot will supply a good deal of our commerce. It will get three gold tiles for (aptly-named) gold and production. Two floodplains for growth. And a whole lot of coastal tiles for gold and enough food to grow (with a lighthouse). This dot could actually be moved to Red Dot 2, the smaller dot, to avoid losing some of the gold bonus by settling on it. But is that too close to Washington?

Purple dot will also have some production potential, with two hills and a grassland forest. I see it as production/commerce mix, since it has a lot of coast too.

White dot and Orange dot are mostly fishing villages. creating both may not be worth our while.

Well anyways, that's my reasoning for the dotmap.

2800BC (IT): Workers road the cows, warriors start to move in a way to cover as much of the island as possible. You know, I would really like to be at least one size bigger. An irrigated flood plain produces 4 food, which is a net gain after health is accounted for. But we do need another settler ASAP, so I will finish this one, and then do my best to improve our size (while keeping health manageable) for the rest of the turn.

2680BC (3): Road completes, move to flood plain and build road (to connect horses to Washington). I love these 2-move workers. They take away much of the tedium. Lions appear next to my southern warrior. But he's in the forest, so no worries.

IT- He in fact defeats the lion with nary a scratch.

2560BC (6): Sailing completes. Start writing. We'll need libraries to satisfactarily keep up in technology without any trading. Cow connects and Washington is healthy again. The next city will pull in a heath resource to help me grow Washington heathily.

IT- Hinduish founded in a foreign land.

2520BC (7): Workers start building a pasture for the horses.

2400BC (10): Settler finishes, queue up a chariot until we grow, with an emphasis on growth (all three-food tiles). I considered another worker because we'll need to get the second city up to speed as quickly as possible, but I think I can irrigate 1 flood plains tile and get a road to the sheep quickly enough that we won't be in worse shape than we were healthwise when my turn started. Did I mention I hate flood plains starts? Err I mean, more strategic options...interestingly enough, irrigating a flood plain is the same as hooking up a health resource. Also, I start a chariot, which will deal with any barbs that pop up on this island.

2360BC (11): Pasture completes. No burning need to road the horses, as they are already connected (is this because it's on the river?). However I think the most efficient roadway will look like this:



It will connect black dot as well, and leave us one road short of connecting red dot.

2320BC (12): Lions pop up next to the settler, but I have a warrior in the area and I'll be alright. Don't send your settlers out unaccompanied kids. It's a scary world!

IT- Warrior defends successfully against the Lion and promotes, losing 0.5 strength. I love the new combat system by the by. I give him 10% strength. Normally I'd go for the Woodsman upgrade, with the goal of getting another upgrade to Woodsman II, but we won't be doing any more exploring on land in this game. So I take the 10% upgrade.

2280BC (13): Found New York on blue dot, and start work on a barracks. Lions are right next to the city (which is now defended by a warrior). In retrospect, I should have started the farm before the road, as Washington will grow and suffer a few turns of unhealthiness while the farm completes. Next time...

2240BC (15): Protect the worker, roading to New York, with a warrior.
2200BC (16): Washington grows, and is now unhealthy again. The Chariot will be finished next turn.
2160BC (17): Chariot finishes, start settler, due in 9.
2080BC (19): Writing finishes. Start work on Pottery, to allow us to build a granary in Washington.
2040BC (20): Another barb pops up (I had had the Chariot on the other side of NY), but he shouldn't pose a problem for the Chariot next turn.

Conclusion- Washington's borders will expand next turn and will hopefully pull in the sheep for New York. If not, perhaps a library in New York?

LotR16 - 2040BC
 
City specialization? Huh? I am already confused.

I guess I should, like, read the manual, or something :)
 
It's good to be back. Like most of us, I have little experience with this game, having spent no more than 6 hours on my solo efforts so far. I'm sure the beta testers are watching this, so here's my turns for their amusement...

(0) Inherited Turn
Our chariot successfully defends against a barbarian warrior attack, but is dropped to 3.0/4.

(1) 2000BC
Chariot heals in forest. Check the city screen for Washington, but see no way to speed up the settler.

IT:
We are fifth in the list of most advanced civilizations. LotR16 the puny (!). Barbarians are sighted from New York, but it'll be a few turns before they are an issue.

(2) 1960BC
Worker continues to road towards New York.

IT:
Barbarian disappears into the fog.

(3) 1920BC
Nada.

IT:
Forest grows by Washington. Chariot has healed.

(4) 1880BC
I send the chariot towards the position where the barbarian warrior was sighted.

IT:
Nada

(5) 1840BC
Another section of road completed, so the worker is moved to the hill for the next section. Warrior follows.

IT:
Some excitement at last. Pottery comes in, and the settler build in Washington is completed.

(6) 1800BC
Washington is set to build a warrior. The existing warrior there moves out to escort the settler to black dot.
Our chariot finds the barbarians, ending it's turn on an adjacent hill for extra defence.
Select Alphabet as our next research target. Black dot will start a galley once settled, and I think the opportunity to trade technology would be an advantage if we can find someone else.

IT:
Our chariot defends successully against the barbarian warrior.
Warrior completes at Washington.

(7) 1760BC
Our chariot has earned a promotion, so I give him +10% strength (other choice was +10% withdrawal chance). He is instructed to heal.
Warrior fortifies at Washington. A second worker is ordered up there.

IT:
Nada

(8) 1720BC
Steveville is founded on black dot, thus becoming the first city in a Civ 4 succession game to be named after a player. It starts work on a galley. Might as well see if anyone else is within striking distance.
Chariot heals, and is moved around to patrol the lands to the East.

IT:
Steveville is connected to Washington by a road.

(9) 1680BC
Worker and warrior moved to begin final road segment to connect New York to the other two cities.
Warrior fortifies in Steveville.

IT:
Nada

(10) 1640BC
Move chariot. Fortify warrior on worker.



LotR16 Save File - 1640BC
 
I jumped right in and played my ten. I'm a poet and didn't know it. I'm still very low on a steep learning curve for this new game, so feel free to comment on anything I did/should have done. My uneventful turns:

(0) 1640 &#8211; hit <enter>

(1) 1600 &#8211; Move worker to NY&#8217;s rice patch and order construction on a farm. Move our warrior to within two squares of Washington.

(2) 1560 &#8211; Washington&#8217;s worker completes and moves due south to start a farm. Washington begins training a settler.

(3) 1520 &#8211; nada

(4) 1480 &#8211; ditto

(5) 1440 &#8211; napped

(6) 1400 &#8211; Started a road on NY&#8217;s completed rice patch.

(7) 1360 &#8211; NY&#8217;s barracks completes and begins training a chariot.

(8) 1320 &#8211; Moved worker from NY towards red dot

(9) 1280 &#8211; Moved two workers to the connection spot for red dot and order a road.

(10) 1240 &#8211; Road completes and allows Washington&#8217;s new settler to reach red dot in one turn. Washington begins training a worker. Farm production begins adjacent to red dot.

The save: lotr161240bc.JPG

View attachment LotR16 BC-1240.zip
 
Roster:
Arathorn -- on deck
Speaker
Arizona_Steve
Reagan
Jaffa Tamarin -- UP NOW

Strategy decisions/questions/notes (from my pespective):

- Do we try for the Religion that comes with Code of Laws (Taoism, I think)? A religion is nice for happiness and since we won't be getting one from our neighbors anytime soon, it might be nice to form our own.
- Optics is the tech that allows for caravels, which are the first ships to be able to even enter oceans. That's a ways away, but we might want to keep it in mind.
- Libraries? I thought that was one of the reasons we went to Writing, was to get a bit of culture going and to improve our research. I'd start building them ASAP. Remember, buildings are free in Civ4. We're probably going to be alone for a while, so we need to be able to research relatively quickly.
- With a bit of health now and more coming soon, I'd let Washington grow to size 5 relatively soon. Bigger cities ARE better.
- Do we want a wonder? (I think yes, several) We have both stone and marble, two things that help speed a lot of early wonders. We have the tech to quarry them, so I'd make getting those going a fairly high worker priority. After a bit more military, I'd probably stick NY on a wonder. Which wonder to build is a good question.
- Note: If Steveville produces a work boat, we can put nets on those clams and get the health benefit, even though no city can work them yet. It's probably worth doing shortly after the galley (maybe a library first).
- Monarchy is another worthwhile tech target. It allows us to build wine presses to get happiness from our wine and would allow the "Hereditary Rule" civic, which we can use to help with happiness, too, with military units.

Arathorn
 
0) 1240BC - deep breath, close eyes, hit <enter> ..

We are go!

1) 1200BC - settler founds San Francisco at red dot, San Francisco starts to build .. hmmm .. game suggests Work Boat or Lighthouse. Nothing useful for a Work Boat to do round this side of the island. I consider a Warrior, but probably better to build military in New York with the barracks. With decent food and not much production probably best to let it grow and bit and then build settlers/workers, but meanwhile I have to put shields into something, and a Lighthouse will certainly be useful here. So Lighthouse it is. (Also, being Organized, we get Lighthouse at half cost. I considered a Granary, but that would take, like, forever.)

I note that we're getting the happiness bonus from the gold under San Francisco, even without a mine though. Is a mine not required for the happiness bonus? Or does the city count as a mine?

IT: Chariot finishes in New York, starts, hmm, Granary. I don't think there's any urgent need to build up military on our little island, so going for growth here.

2) 1160BC - new Chariot heads west to keep watch on that end of the island.

3) 1120BC - time passes.

IT: Washington finishes Settler (correction) Worker, starts on Granary. Yeah, I like Granaries. Blame Sirian :) (Though probably with the new worker/settler build rules it will turn out that Granaries are not nearly so important in Civ IV.)

4) 1080BC - workers are building farms in the floodplains, our Chariot out west spots a barbarian camp.

IT: barbarians attack the western Chariot, Chariot is victorious.

5) 1040BC - time passes.

6) 1000BC - time passes.

IT: San Francisco grows to size 2, New York to size 4.

7) 975BC - time passes.

IT: Washington to size 5.

8) 950BC - send workers east to build improvements around New York. (But when they get there, I find there's not really much they can do. Building a farm in a forest will destroy the forest. We can't chop the forests for real because we don't have the necessary tech. I wonder briefly if building the farm will give us the chopped forest production boost, but don't think this is quite the moment to experiment.)

IT: Steveville finishes Galley, starts on Work Boat (we need the health bonus from the clams).

9) 925BC - a worker crew heads west to build a road to the stone.

IT: we discover the Alphabet! :dance:

Washington finishes Granary, starts on Settler.

10) 900BC - looking at the in-game tech tree it looks like we ought to be able to go to Literature next (<ponder>Great Library</ponder>) but when I try to select it I find we have to go through Mysticism and Polytheism first. I've left it on Mysticism, but we haven't actually done any research yet, so can be freely changed.
 
Got it.

Is a mine not required for the happiness bonus? Or does the city count as a mine?

City counts as a mine -- or as working the tile, at least. I'm not sure if you need the tech to make it work (e.g., I don't know if settling on wine before you have Monarchy or silks before Calendar will give the boost or not), but it does connect the resource. If you're desperate for a resource (like copper or iron), this is the fastest way to hook it up.

Agreed on the growth focus. As long as we don't overgrow our happiness, we'll be fine.

As for techs...well, bronze working allows tree chopping, so I might look into that. I think granaries still require Pottery, so we have that? We need to start building some cottages, too. I agree that the Great Library would be useful, but there might be some higher priorities.

Anyway, got it and will hopefully play tonight.

Roster:
Arathorn -- UP NOW
Speaker -- on deck
Arizona_Steve
Reagan
Jaffa Tamarin

Arathorn
 
Um, you have half price forges and are spending 20 turns on Alphabet to trade with civs you may not meet until Optics? Note: granaries also increase health (doubling the effect of certain health resources) and forges give happiness with gold, silver, and gems. Your research on anything willl be painfully slow until you get the cottages growing or some lighthouses (half-price) manned. Roads, mines (but not gold mines!), and farms produce no commerce.

We're all just learning here, but some good things to keep in mind.
 
(0) 900 - A bit of MM. Washington can move from forest to irrigated flood plain. Makes 17 progress/turn towards settler instead of 16. And it gives us an extra commerce. Piddly and probably not worth it, but, hey, I’m learning here. YIKES! San Francisco is at its health limit already. 4. Well, that sucks. We don’t need a lighthouse now, we need health, so that means a granary for SF. I pop it into the queue, moving the lighthouse down.

(1) 875 - Send the galley south. We’ve already seen all ocean to the north and our galley can’t cross that. Our only hope is via the tundra island to the south or a bit of land just west of the capital where I didn’t scout all the way to the ocean. But our chariot can take care of viewing that.

Why are we working on tundra??? There’s a lot better choices around, like the grassland by the river. That makes no sense to me. One worker is sent to irrigate the grass by NY and the other to mine one of SF’s gold hills, so it has some hammer production potential, since it needs that badly at this point.

Wake the western chariot to do some fog-peering. Yep, definitely ocean that way. Only hope for contact before Optics is via the tundra island in the south. The rest is all ocean.

(I) NY granary -> library. We want the cultural expansion AND the added commerce..

(2) 850 - Where I thought I could irrigate, I couldn’t. Rivers don’t connect diagonally. So, I start a cottage. That’ll be commerce central, eventually. Mine the gold hill. Move the chariot back. Will promote it twice (+20% generic strength) and then re-fortify as a look-out.

(3) 825 - Nada.

(I) Mysticism in. Polytheism started. Code of Laws and Literature both require it. One of those should be our target.

(4) 800 - Nada. (5) 775 - Same

(I) Barb warrior appears in the east. Steveville completes WorkBoat. Starts Library.

(6) 750 - Wake our chariot and kill the barb while he’s still on poor defensive terrain (tundra). We win easily enough. Cottage completed. Start roading the square.

(I) Washington completes settler. Starts a library (anybody notice a theme here?)

(7) 725 - Send the settler to my blue dot location in the west to get the clams. I thought seriously about red for stone, but I am still more in the food/grow than wonders mode at this point.

(8) 700 - Worker actions. Another cottage by NY for now. A quarry on the marble is started, to help Steveville’s production. And a net put on the clams.

(I) Polytheism in. Tough call on the next tech. I want to push to Code of Laws for maybe a religion of our own. And courthouses, too, are an economic boon. Bronze working to cut down trees will be necessary at SOME point. But, I went with Literature. Great Library can hopefully help us keep up technologically. And it’s double production speed with Marble, which we’re getting close to having connected. (And I experience the Alt-Tab wrong-thing-on-top bug. How do I close this window?)

(9) 675 - Lost in trying to get out of the window. Eventually hit F6 and it came on top so I could exit. Very annoying. Most everybody was busy anyway, so no huge loss.

(10) 650 - Boston formed (maybe one turn late). Starts a very veto-able Granary.

Suggestions for next leader:
- After Washington’s library completes, re-arrange tiles back to the flood plains and crank out another settler or two. I told the governor to not allow growth, else he’d let the city grow to unhappiness. But we’ll need to uncheck that when we have some happiness for Washington. Settlers can use extra food, though, so re-arrange back to food and not hammers when you’re dong that.
- Start NY on Great Library after it’s library completes. Hopefully, the marble will be up and running at that point. I temporarily have NY on high food and commerce, so that the library build better matches our expected time to Literature. (Go to 100% science so they exactly match?) When GL starts, put it back on high shields.
- Watch happiness. Growing to bad health is OK. Growing to unhappy is very undesirable. We’ll be able to use scientists in our cities soon. That’s a reasonable way to slow growth. Hooking up happiness is also critical. Monarchy allows wineries, which we can use. Code of Laws would give us a religion, so we could build temples, if we get it first, which seems semi-unlikely.
- Keep exploring tundra island. It at least has some horses, so it might have some more valuable stuff.

No screenie. Very little has changed.

Arathorn
 
Lurker comment: Metal Casting gives you forges, which you can build at half-price, boost production 25%, and give you an extra happy face. Also allows Collossus, which works for water tiles in ALL cities. Just suggesting this since I've let that tree go too long in two of my games then regretted it.

If you are stuck on this island, Astronomy can be beelined to much earlier than you'd think - check it on the sci advisor screen.
 
Forges do NOT give a happy. They give an unhealthy face.

But metal-casting is still a ways out. We have some sharper needs. Heck, we don't even know Bronze Working yet, let alone Iron Working, which is a hard prerequisite.

Roster (forgot last night):
Arathorn
Speaker -- UP NOW
Arizona_Steve -- on deck
Reagan
Jaffa Tamarin

Arathorn
 
Very VERY little has changed since Reagan's screenshot. We have two more cities, a bit more land worked, and can see a tiny bit of an island to our south. Just hardly seems worth it...especially when the built-in screen capture just gives me an all-black jpg.

Arathorn
 
Um, someone needs to read their Civilopedia. Forges give +1 happy for gold, gems, and silver. Prereqs are Bronze Working and Pottery.
 
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