Fishing the best Starting Technology!?

I know... every Leader demands its own strategy and is good at certain aspects of the game. So who and which race is best seems to depend on your play style.

But,

during the last days I tested most of the leaders and races and it appeared to me that fishing starts were alot easier than all the others for the following reasons:

-While other civilizations are "wasting" their first turns building scouts or warriors (assuming a harder difficulty where scouting doesn't give those huge bonuses from tribals) you can construct a fishing boat from turn 1 on, boosting your city growth. Once your city is bigger those warriors will be built in 3/4 turns.

-Most starting locations on normal maps seem to have some coast and fish (crab/clam) near.

-You might even have the time building a second work boat before your settler which is then not used in your city but scouts for the place to build the second one, waiting at another fish ressource assuring an exploding growth of your second city.

-You have enough time to research the technologies needed for the other ressources till your worker is built.


Maybe I am wrong, if so please feel free to show me...

Well, I am not sure if "most" maps have a fish/crab/clam tile nearby, but if you do start with one in your city radius then I agree that a fishing boat might be a good first build on easy difficulty levels. But on harder levels you still need to build military units right off the bat, because those animals/barbarins start breathing down your neck so damn early.

If you have the fish/crab/clam within your starting city's radius, then I think that fishing is the best, regardless of the difficulty. The big food boost gets you the quick population that lets you exploit the nearby tiles to get an early production boost that will let you crank out whatever you need and help offset the AI's bonuses at the higher levels.

If you don't have that nearby, it's pretty useless as a starting tech, though. Like most things in this game, it can be either good or bad depending on the situation and you have to adapt to what's around you. Much better than earlier games when you could pretty much stick to one strategy regardless of what's going on.

@Kolson Are the barbarians so big a problem in the early game turns on harder difficulty? I have to admit I mostly played on Noble Difficulty (only tried one warlord and one prince game so far). I had no problem leaving my city without a defending unit the first 15-30 turns scouting around with my warrior.

After playing one game on Noble to learn the game mechanics, I have played all of my games on Immortal. I know from experience that Diety is always so hard that it takes game exploits (like ICS in Civ III) to win, but I still want to make sure my strategies work on a very difficult level so I am ready for multiplayer against friends .

And yes, on the Immortal level barbarians are a HUGE problem. You will NEVER be able to send a settler/worker out without a military escort, and even just having 1 unit as that escort is risky. You will often have 2 archer/warrior units pop up out of nowhere, and by often I mean about once every 4-6 turns on normal speed setting. Most of the times it is only 1 barbarian unit, but having two or more pop up is not a rare event.

These barbarians will start to invade in about 30 turns, about the length of time it takes to build your first settler if you wait until you have 3 population. But even before then, you have to contend with frequent lion (strength 2) and bear (strength 3) attacks. I havent had a game yet where I havent lost at least 1 warrior/scout to an animal while scouting.

So again my answer is YES, barbarians are a huge problem on harder difficulty levels. But I really like that fact, because it makes you have to start thinking about your military in 4000BC. No humans in that time period should just send their woman and children out into the wilderness to found cities without protection.

This is why the fishing boat idea wont work on hard difficulty levels. It is probably going to take around 15 turns or so to build that fishing boat, which means you may be able to build a single warrior before having to build a settler. That means you are basically just rolling the dice, and the odds are very stacked against you. If you are the kind of player that just sits there are restarts until things go favorably then it might work eventually, but how fun is that? It will never work in multiplayer.

Interesting... I think I have to try an Immortal Setting with that tactic.

But I have to say that I usually dont build a Settler as soon as I reach size 3, but later depending on the tiles near my city (sometimes I wait till it reaches the happiness maximum) so I have plenty of time to build escort warriors. The growth penalty of my second town due to the missing turns I try to compensate with the early second fishing boat. I must admit finding the right ressources can be a risky lottery game but so far I always found something while cruising along the coastline.

If you are fortunate enough to start near a coast with fish, it's definitely the best way to go short of some extremely good land tiles. This is because of the fact that your city can grow while you construct a workboat. Nothing silly about saying that.

The only problem is that you are gambling on having seafood available. If you don't, you have a basically useless starting tech compared to something like Mysticism (for easy early religion) or Agriculture (which give a more reliable food increase than fishing). And, of course, you don't know if you'll have fish until you start the game.

Omens,

It's probably best not to set out to find fish from the start. That would be a very bad idea. If you're fortunate enough to get a good coastal location, though, it's a great deal.

Also, Colossus FTW... >=D

I think you are right Arkanin, I'll use my warrior/scout to walk his 1-2 and if there is no fish around I try to build my city at least by the coast so that I maybe discover fish by building it or that I can build a workboat for my second city if there is fish outside my homecityborders.
If there is no watertile anyway near my city I am completely screwed, of course.

One side-benefit of fishing can sometimes be early trading. Greeks start with fishing, and I have a game right now where I got sailing from a goodie hut before 2000 bc. There's another continent nearby (within galley-range) that has 2 nations on it. My Continent has 1 other nation on it. Due to the sailing tech, my religion spread like wildfire to all 3 of those nations, to the extent that I don't need missionaries, and they are all friendly with me.

But that's a very hit-and-miss advantage. So far, this is the only "continents" game I've had where the other continent was that close, and that no one else on that continent was spreading Buddhism before I got there.

I think Mysticism is probably the best starting tech to have. Only because it allows you to be one step closer to grabbing a religion before the others, which helps you in the long run.

All the other starting techs seems worthless right away, as you never have a Worker to take advantage of them anyways. Can't build roads, farms, mines, etc... until that first Worker is out. And like Kolson said, you really need to build at least one Warrior right away. Once my pop. hit's 2, then I start making my Worker. By the time he is done, I have the tech I'll need to work my city tiles, regardless of what I started with.

The fishing thing is nice, I agree. As it allows you to "farm" right away without halting population growth. But, unlike you, I think starting out with a settler next to a Fish is extremely rare. I think that's only happened to me once. And I never move my settler more than one tile. It's crucial to get settled on the first turn and get that tech tree moving.

As far as building a workboat for the fish special, or a worker for a land special, I'd go with the boat first. Your city is still growing while the boats being made, and your worker, when you make him, will take less time.

I agree that mysticism is very good.
Currently starting a new game with Isabella of Spain because of that.

Although Spiritual and Expansive aren't clearly the best starting traits (most ppl favor ind/fin) the technologies Fishing and Mysticism are the best technologies, in my opinion. And with half cost of Temple meaning happiness and health from Expansive I clearly have the advantage regarding city size.

Fishing is one of the most beneficial starting techs imo, especially if you're racing to found a religion, without Mysticism it's doubtful you'll have a shot at Buddhism but it's very likely you'll net Polytheism if you go all out coastal to pump your commerce into research. You're not going to find many resource tiles with 2C+ on turn 1. Is the tradeoff worth it, is really the only question...

Isabella can easily get 2 religions even 3 if willing to sacrifice in other areas. Elizabeth can easily get 2 as well via the Monotheism path, Being Financial with the starting Fishing Tech gets you 3C on turn 1...that's an impressive commerce boost in 4000BC to your research rate. If it's something you can benefit from in 4000BC it's worth maximizing it providing circumstances are right.

phoulishwan said:

Being Financial with the starting Fishing Tech gets you 3C on turn 1...that's an impressive commerce boost in 4000BC to your research rate. If it's something you can benefit from in 4000BC it's worth maximizing it providing circumstances are right.

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Reading that just made me love the game even more for how open-ended it is, because I never even thought of that. There are so many viable stratagies.

/sigh I want to go home.

Yes I already tried the fishing/financial Combo with Victoria of the English and it worked out great in terms of early research.
Caesar is also great he can build lighthouses, granarys courthouses and harbors for half which is great for expansion and hes got just the right unit to expand .

Mmmmmmmmm...... Praetorians

Victoria is my current favorite right now too. Nothing says "I love money" more than having the land covered in cottages and cities.


As for starting techs, fishing is hit or miss. You may or may not start near water. If you don't, the tech is wasted (in the very begining mind you). Even if you do start near water, you almost always have either grasslands or flood plains within range of your capital to get some early growth going.

Mystisism is the most powerful of the starting techs because the 3 early religions are the only really time-sensitive techs, and it gives you a head start on them.

If I had to pick a 2nd favorite starting tech, it would be hunting. It starts you with a scout, rather than a warrior, so you can get a better idea of your starting area and have a more productive hut-poping experiance (more huts, no barbs). It also leads to archery and animal husbandry, two very important early techs for tapping nearby lifestock and protecting early cities.

Pinstar said:

Victoria is my current favorite right now too. Nothing says "I love money" more than having the land covered in cottages and cities.


As for starting techs, fishing is hit or miss. You may or may not start near water. If you don't, the tech is wasted (in the very begining mind you). Even if you do start near water, you almost always have either grasslands or flood plains within range of your capital to get some early growth going.

Mystisism is the most powerful of the starting techs because the 3 early religions are the only really time-sensitive techs, and it gives you a head start on them.

If I had to pick a 2nd favorite starting tech, it would be hunting. It starts you with a scout, rather than a warrior, so you can get a better idea of your starting area and have a more productive hut-poping experiance (more huts, no barbs). It also leads to archery and animal husbandry, two very important early techs for tapping nearby lifestock and protecting early cities.

Click to expand...

Victoria, oh yeah and just you wait till you bring out the Redcoats