Helicopter lost battle vs. Rifleman. Blah!

brown_mudante · Nov 3, 2005

It happened today when I was playing. I think that helicopters are generally underestimated in the game, they sould be more stronger and powerful. How could some rifleman from 19 century shoot down Apache helicopter for example?
And that just one single rifleman unit? That's nonsense.

RoddyVR · Nov 3, 2005

havent gotten into the modern age much... what are the strength values for the hellicopters? (and the rifleman actualy... )
did the rifle man have any promotions or defence bonuses that make him better in this fight?

Efexeye · Nov 3, 2005

Civilization is a game that requires you to think in the abstract, especially in the area of military units. This problem has existed since Civ2, and there are already many, many threads about this very minor issue.

noosh · Nov 3, 2005

Maybe the helicopter pilot flew into a mountain, ala Americans in Kosovo.

Darth Gromit · Nov 3, 2005

RoddyVR said:
did the rifle man have any promotions or defence bonuses that make him better in this fight?

Yeah, this is what I was thinking. With the right promotions, that would be possible. Remember, it's a numbers battle. Even if the odds are low, sometimes the rifleman's gonna hit something that goes ouchie on a gunship. Maybe a fuel line, or the pilot, or something.

Muki · Nov 3, 2005

u can shoot down a helicopter with an old musket..just have to hit the pilot.
In civ u have to look how damaged ur gunship is..what are the defenders bonuses/promotions, and gunship recieve extra damage against armor- tanks and stuff not against infantry and its a rare occasion when gunship loses to an obsolete unit.

CitizenCain · Nov 3, 2005

brown_mudante said:
It happened today when I was playing. I think that helicopters are generally underestimated in the game, they sould be more stronger and powerful. How could some rifleman from 19 century shoot down Apache helicopter for example?
And that just one single rifleman unit? That's nonsense.

The same way a chunk of rubber "shot down" the concorde a while ago. Or the same way an unarmed bird can cause a jetliner to crash. If you put enough bullets into any flying object (aside from a Warthog tank buster, of course), it will fall out of the sky. Aerodynamics doesn't much care if the bullets are 7.62 NATO rounds from the 21st century or .60 calibre slugs from a 19th century breach loader.

Wildbore · Nov 3, 2005

Obviously its not hard for someone with a rifle to shoot destroy a helicopter, if he gets off the first shot and damages the engine, there goes your helicopter.

JiggleTheHandle · Nov 3, 2005

You know, they're not really helicopters and riflemen. They're game pieces.

brown_mudante · Nov 3, 2005

Darth Gromit said:
Yeah, this is what I was thinking. With the right promotions, that would be possible. Remember, it's a numbers battle. Even if the odds are low, sometimes the rifleman's gonna hit something that goes ouchie on a gunship. Maybe a fuel line, or the pilot, or something.

Hahahaha...yeah, maybe rifleman shot some bird in the sky and then dead bird somehow fell through the open window into pilot's eye and helicopter crashed.
Yeah, I think it was "don't try it at home" promotion.

MirvShag · Nov 3, 2005

Wait until you see a knight hit a chopper with his lance and kill it. good times

CitizenCain · Nov 3, 2005

brown_mudante said:
Hahahaha...yeah, maybe rifleman shot some bird in the sky and then dead bird somehow fell through the open window into pilot's eye and helicopter crashed.
Yeah, I think it was "don't try it at home" promotion.

Or all the smoke from the black power used by older rifles made the pilot crash into a tree on a strafing run.

brown_mudante · Nov 3, 2005

CitizenCain said:
If you put enough bullets into any flying object (aside from a Warthog tank buster, of course), it will fall out of the sky. Aerodynamics doesn't much care if the bullets are 7.62 NATO rounds from the 21st century or .60 calibre slugs from a 19th century breach loader.

And you really think that modern helicopter which carries enough rockets, bullets and guided missiles to destroy one city and with equipment like night-vison, infrared, automated targeting etc. could lose battle against some bunch of peasants peasant armed with hunting rifles? They weren't even infantry, they were riflemen!

Poor sucker ain't good against 19th century breach loaders

Darth Gromit · Nov 3, 2005

MirvShag said:
Wait until you see a knight hit a chopper with his lance and kill it. good times

SO TRUE!!

Have you ever seen a knight square off against a tank? It's so great! If the Knight scores hits, you actually see dents and holes in the tank to represent damage.

And also true about game pieces. You have to think about it in terms of abstractions. Like in Afghanistan, you might have what essentially is a group of people with some rifles or even on horseback like cossacks get lucky and take down a helicopter. When that happens, it was probably a shoulder mounted RPG or something. At least, in your head... In the game it's just stats, modifiers, and algorithms that resolve combat.

Dida · Nov 3, 2005

I have had my helicopter destroyed by a pikeman and even archors. This is insane.
Was that pike about 2 miles long? or was that archor shooting rockets out of his bow?

Undertaker798 · Nov 3, 2005

Has anyone ever been in the situation of Spearman beating a Tank, and the spearman belonged to them?

CitizenCain · Nov 3, 2005

Dida said:
I have had my helicopter destroyed by a pikeman and even archors. This is insane.
Was that pike about 2 miles long? or was that archor shooting rockets out of his bow?

I personally think it's insane that anyone would play Civ IV on a level where they have modern helicopter gunship technology and their opponents have probably yet to achieve the medivel era.

Consider it a "you're playing on way too easy a difficulty level" tax.

Kolyana · Nov 3, 2005

brown_mudante said:
It happened today when I was playing. I think that helicopters are generally underestimated in the game, they sould be more stronger and powerful. How could some rifleman from 19 century shoot down Apache helicopter for example?
And that just one single rifleman unit? That's nonsense.

That's nothing ... I had an Axeman take one of mine down the other day

Kolyana · Nov 3, 2005

CitizenCain said:
I personally think it's insane that anyone would play Civ IV on a level where they have modern helicopter gunship technology and their opponents have probably yet to achieve the medivel era.

Consider it a "you're playing on way too easy a difficulty level" tax.

Either that ... or it's a unit that simply hasn't been upgraded yet (happens all the time), or you're starting at an easier level and working your way up as you learn the game and find the level that best suits you.

Unfortunately, not all of us are as perfect as you and can find the optimal level straight away.

brown_mudante · Nov 3, 2005

Dida said:
I have had my helicopter destroyed by a pikeman and even archors. This is insane.
Was that pike about 2 miles long? or was that archor shooting rockets out of his bow?

I don't know why Firaxis keep these stupidities in the game. I think in Civ4 these kind of things are even more highlighted and I just get that dumb feeling of the game when such thing happens.

Helicopter lost battle vs. Rifleman. Blah!

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