No war weariness...

Just noticed something.

Police State -50% in all cities
Jail -25% in the city built
Mt Rushmore -25% in all cities

Now if my math is correct, that means there is no war weariness right?

Also, are there other methods to combat war weariness?

I don't know if it works quite like that. I suspect it would be as follows;

Call the unadjusted quantity of war weariness in a city 100

100 - 50% = 50
50 - 25% = 37.5
37.5 - 25% = 28.143

So the actual final reduction is 71.857%, if my assumption is correct. Which is still a pretty significant chunk of war weariness to be taking away, and something a militarily-minded civ would hunger for.

I think that'll be 0.5x0.25x0.25 or police state with jail like 25% of that remaining 50% from PS. But htat's just a suggestion.

I'm pretty sure it's like the combat bonuses, where each % is added together before modifying the base value.

Interesting to note that all 3 together do form 100%, so yes I believe that's a way of getting no war weariness.

Here you go.

City start: 8 unhappy from war

With Jail or Rushmore: 6
With Police State or Jail + Rushmore: 4
With Police State + Jail or Rushmore: 3
With Police State + Rushmore + Jail: 1

Now a larger sized city: 20 unhappy from war

With Jail or Rushmore: 15
With Police State or Jail + Rushmore: 10
With Police State + Jail or Rushmore: 7
With Police State + Rushmore + Jail: 3

Well, that makes NO sense to me. Jail + Rushmore = 50%, obviously. If it did it by multiplying percentages, it would be 20*.75*.75 = 11.25 which is at least 11.

But, 50%+25% is not equaling 75%. Else it'd be 2 in the 8 unhappy case and 5 in the 20 unhappy case.

Hmmmm....

Bears closer investigation, methinks.

Arathorn

I've never had enough WW to justify that combination yet, but i suspect that is a zero WW solution.

edit: never mind. I've been proven wrong.

Arathorn said:

Hmmmm....

Bears closer investigation, methinks.

Click to expand...

Methinks you're right.

And you're going to hate me for this, that's what I get for taking shortcuts. The smaller figures from the size 8 masked some variances, so I didn't test every combination in the size 20.

Modified numbers for 20 unhappy:

With Jail or Rushmore: 15
With Jail + Rushmore: 11
With Police State: 10
With Police State + Jail: 7
With Police State + Rushmore: 5
With Police State + Rushmore + Jail: 3

snepp said:

Modified numbers for 20 unhappy:

With Jail or Rushmore: 15
With Jail + Rushmore: 11
With Police State: 10
With Police State + Jail: 7
With Police State + Rushmore: 5
With Police State + Rushmore + Jail: 3

Click to expand...

So Police State and Rushmore each subtract from the total number of unhappy's whereas Jail subtracts from the remainder (after PS & Rush have already been deducted). It also appears that the whole number of unhappy's is always rounded down.

Thanks for posting the #'s snepp.

Adding the % together is incorrect math, at least in the real world
Huxley Hobbes has the right idea i.e.

100 - 50% = 50
50 - 25% = 37.5
37.5 - 25% = 28.143

Siff

looks like its (police state + rushmore) * jail

unhappy * (1- (0.5 + 0.25)) * (1-0.25)
if you have all of them

Gyathaar said:

looks like its (police state + rushmore) * jail

unhappy * (1- (0.5 + 0.25)) * (1-0.25)
if you have all of them

Click to expand...

Yeah, this agrees with the data shown, so the least ratio you get is 1/4*3/4=3/16. This means the most efficient way is to use police state and build Rushmore, and almost never to build a jail. Police state is the greatest war time civic, for +25% military units production and -50% ww. Plus organized religion, you get +25% production for nearly everything!

War weariness still sucks whatever you have.

I am currently very far into a game (Monarchy) and too far behind India to hope to beat them to the space ship (I only ever play with Space Race & Conquer settings. The others prematurely end the the game IMO).

As a result, I have been in several wars and currently smashing Indian towns which has been difficlut because it is hard to maintain Open Borders with Germany who are between us.

Annnnnyway - I have Rushmore, a Jail in every one of my 14 cities, and am are running a Police State (other civics all military related) and I STILL have to keep stopping the wars after what I think is merely 10 turns or so each time because cities are starving and production time is already doubled and rising. I wouldn't bother with a real war without all of these things in place. Best you can hope for is a decisive assault to take one or two towns maximum and regroup and let your people calm down.

AU_Armageddon said:

War weariness still sucks whatever you have.

I am currently very far into a game (Monarchy) and too far behind India to hope to beat them to the space ship (I only ever play with Space Race & Conquer settings. The others prematurely end the the game IMO).

As a result, I have been in several wars and currently smashing Indian towns which has been difficlut because it is hard to maintain Open Borders with Germany who are between us.

Annnnnyway - I have Rushmore, a Jail in every one of my 14 cities, and am are running a Police State (other civics all military related) and I STILL have to keep stopping the wars after what I think is merely 10 turns or so each time because cities are starving and production time is already doubled and rising. I wouldn't bother with a real war without all of these things in place. Best you can hope for is a decisive assault to take one or two towns maximum and regroup and let your people calm down.

Click to expand...

Yet another to fight ww is raising culture slider, -- proving you know drama (an optional tech, so you could leave it alone for ever). But anyway I feel amazed why you get so much ww. What factors determine ww? If it's similar to civ 3, then:

1. Your city loss (usually none);

2. Your unit loss (much more in civ 4 than in 3);

3. Your unit being attacked even if you win;

4. Your terrain getting pillaged;

5. Your units outside your territory (also determines your "unit supply");

6. Their units inside your territory.

The basic reasons why ww is rocketing are probably slow adavance (waiting for artilleries) and big loss (many suicidal collateral runs).

hmmm... has anyone compiled a definitive list somewhere on this site?

It might well be some of those effects. India is way ahead of me in techs as well. I sent in over 50 tanks and 20 artillery and destroyed 2 of ghandi's cities and a swathe of terrain, but he wiped the entire lot out inside of 6 turns (I have no air while he strathes with fighters, bombers and gunships and has seeminly unlimited mechanised infantry and armour).

Germany also closed borders yet again just as my forces crossed over trapping them in enemy territory with no route home. No biggy as was a kamakaze force anyway - unless what you are saying is true for civ4 and so supply route was a factor.

I'd be very interested to find out what the facts are impacting war weariness as planning my tactics blindfolded like this is costing me a loss that should have been a win because I didn't expect devastating war weariness after taking every preventative measure listed from in game info.

Not incidentally, another 2 wars started and I did lose a city temporarily during that last war where I was the aggressor. They also did some pillaging. If these can add to it, and recovering a lost city doesn't help, that's all 6 effects you listed that might be compounding my ww.

AU_Armageddon said:

Not incidentally, another 2 wars started and I did lose a city temporarily during that last war where I was the aggressor. They also did some pillaging. If these can add to it, and recovering a lost city doesn't help, that's all 6 effects you listed that might be compounding my ww.

Click to expand...

Aha, all of them! No wonder ww is amazing ...
In my last game (noble), I didn't use police state, and constantly raised culture slide. Although the wars were cake walk (redcoat vs. rifle or even longbow), at some point culture slider becomes as high as 50% or so, looking not great.
In current game (monarch), the war is war elephant (nor iron for long time!) + mace + longbow + spear + cat vs. longbow + war elephant + mace + cat (well, exact tech parity in battlefield, just that I prepared much more units and make stack of doom), so I expect higher ww. Well, when 2 people become unhappy, I capture pyramids and change to police state. Wow, people are very happy again! The longer the war lasts and the more loss you suffer, the more useful police state is. Because 2 unhappiness becoming 1 is not a big deal, but 6 -> 3 makes a lot of difference!

Weariness modifier by map size, Civ4WorldInfo.xml, (starting at duel):
<iWarWearinessModifier>50</iWarWearinessModifier>
<iWarWearinessModifier>30</iWarWearinessModifier>
<iWarWearinessModifier>10</iWarWearinessModifier>
<iWarWearinessModifier>-10</iWarWearinessModifier>
<iWarWearinessModifier>-30</iWarWearinessModifier>
<iWarWearinessModifier>-50</iWarWearinessModifier>

AI weariness modifier by difficulty level, Civ4HandicapInfo.xml, (starting at settler)
<iAIWarWearinessPercent>100</iAIWarWearinessPercent>
<iAIWarWearinessPercent>90</iAIWarWearinessPercent>
<iAIWarWearinessPercent>80</iAIWarWearinessPercent>
<iAIWarWearinessPercent>70</iAIWarWearinessPercent>
<iAIWarWearinessPercent>60</iAIWarWearinessPercent>
<iAIWarWearinessPercent>50</iAIWarWearinessPercent>
<iAIWarWearinessPercent>40</iAIWarWearinessPercent>
<iAIWarWearinessPercent>30</iAIWarWearinessPercent>
<iAIWarWearinessPercent>20</iAIWarWearinessPercent>

Action specific modifiers, GlobalDefines.xml
<DefineName>WW_UNIT_KILLED_ATTACKING</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>3</iDefineIntVal>
<DefineName>WW_KILLED_UNIT_DEFENDING</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>1</iDefineIntVal>
<DefineName>WW_UNIT_KILLED_DEFENDING</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>2</iDefineIntVal>
<DefineName>WW_KILLED_UNIT_ATTACKING</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>2</iDefineIntVal>
<DefineName>WW_UNIT_CAPTURED</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>2</iDefineIntVal>
<DefineName>WW_CAPTURED_UNIT</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>1</iDefineIntVal>
<DefineName>WW_CAPTURED_CITY</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>6</iDefineIntVal>
<DefineName>WW_HIT_BY_NUKE</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>3</iDefineIntVal>
<DefineName>WW_ATTACKED_WITH_NUKE</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>12</iDefineIntVal>
<DefineName>WW_DECAY_RATE</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>-1</iDefineIntVal>
<DefineName>WW_DECAY_PEACE_PERCENT</DefineName>
<iDefineIntVal>99</iDefineIntVal>

Adding the % together is incorrect math, at least in the real world
Huxley Hobbes has the right idea i.e.

Click to expand...

Except that every other calculation in the game does add the %'s together. It's very odd that this one specific case doesn't work like that.

If anyone here has tried the WWII scenario that comes with the game, the WW on that is really a pain, especially since the civic "Mobilization" is supposed to eliminate war-weariness and doesn't, and the broadcast towers are supposed to supply one happy per 10% on the culture slider. But there is no culture slider.