Term 4 Elections: Defense Minister

Please vote for the persion who you think will do a good job, peter grimes or General_W.

This poll will last for 4 days.
This poll will be a private poll.

I can't believe General_W would stoop so low as to bring up that bit about Cindy. Frankly I'm impressed with the detective skills of his campaign - they must be quite sleuthy to dig up dirt about my dead brother's child! That's right - Cindy is the daughter of my brother, who served our nation valiantly in the Ligurian Reapers.

But they didn't get the whole dirt on Cindy:

Poor thing.... when she was 5 years old she loved playing monopoly. But she was terrible at cash-flow management, so she'd inevitably lose. Then she'd start crying, and nothing I did would get her to stop. Until I'd sing the lullaby her crippled grandmother (my mother) used to loll her to sleep. Then she'd be so peaceful, probably the only time she could squelch the memory of her babysitter chaining her up like a dog.... the only peace she get in between bouts of that debilitating phantom leg pain she has as a result of the horse-trampling... Really, though, she's quite a little trooper.

Too bad General_W's thugsquad didn't get the whole story. But they did choose to use the orphaned one-legged daughter of a veteran to try and advance their anti-MIA agenda.

So if you want to vote for a lying cheating traitor who'd sell his own dog to the horse-feed factory (I have pictures), then General_W's your man!

Does anyone else think we've been hearing from Peter Grimes an awful lot lately?

His messages are everywhere! His paranoid cries of "conspiracy" and elaborate tales and fabrications are showing up in practically every other thread!

Who's paying for all this?!?

That's right – Peter's dirty little secret it out. His campaign is being funded Lawyers, Arms Dealers, and Ivory Smugglers.

And before you shed one tear for Peter's poor sweet little crippled Cindy, ask yourself – do I want some cry-baby sob story in charge of the Military??? Or do I want someone that would give up his own dog to the meat factory when desperate times called for action?

Vote for General_W !!

<paid for by citizens who think "General_W" is a much cooler name than "peter grimes">


And on a more substantive (but way less fun) note:
If elected &#8211;
A) If we get the Spices: I will pursue a peaceful strategy looking to minimize military costs while still keeping a respectable defense and exploration force. (See my full platform above)

B) If KISS takes the Spices: I will campaign hard for a war against them at the end of the Ancient Age &#8211; or at the dawn of the Medieval era. While the war may or may not happen in my term, I would make sure there's an army ready for the next minister.

Way to bring the mood down, General!... Reminds me of the opening line of Fashion SWAT 7 when Paul shows up. [/obscure reference]

But in all seriousness, the spice issue is important. I take a different stance, however:

If KISS takes our spices, I would advocate a Peaceful resolution. I don't think we'll be able to wage an effective war so soon. However, if we are pushed into it, I would only try and take one city. I would do everything possible to avoid war in the first place, but if war broke out, I would seek a swift and successful end to it.

peter grimes said:

However, if we are pushed into it, I would only try and take one city. I would do everything possible to avoid war in the first place, but if war broke out, I would seek a swift and successful end to it.

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How do you propose ending the war after taking one KISS city?
Don't get me wrong &#8211; that'd be cool. But I can't imagine them being willing to have peace after that. Or even if they do &#8211; do you think we could stop them from planning a major counter attack after a few years of peace give them time to build up?

Canceling our treaty to go to war will have MAJOR negative consequences &#8211; even if we end the war quickly. (no more insider trading, no more unsecured borders, no more united front against the other continent). Seems to me, the only way to off-set the serious long term negatives is to capture enough cities to make it worth while!

A war would be very ugly &#8211; no doubt. But if we put it off too long &#8211; we just give whoever comes out on top in the TNT-Dnuts war the chance to invade us while we're at war. If we're going to have a war with KISS &#8211; it's better to have it while TNT and Dnuts are both too busy to care. (In my opinion)

Again &#8211; let me be clear: I don't want a war! But if we're stuck, let's have a real war and get in there and duke it out!

How did we move from mudslinging to a debate of the issues? (and why can't our politicians seem to do that?)

Good points about waging war while the other continent is busy with their own problems.

But I just don't see why, if they take the spices, we MUST go to war. Am I misunderstanding your position? I really don't see the spices as so vital a resource to our long-term success that we'd have to give up this most profitable alliance.

Honestly, and I'm sure General_W would agree, this is very much just speculation. Whomp seemed to be receptive to our concerns when Fe asked him about the settler. If they take the spices anyway, maybe we could work out a 'mutual trade pact': war through economics, rather than our beloved sons and daughters.

I still haven&#8217;t decided whether to vote for the power-crazed conspiracy-theorizing dictator-in-waiting with the stinky feet or the mud-slinging dog-selling election tamperer (and I&#8217;m even starting to have a hard time remembering which is which), but as long as we are talking issues, does either candidate envision circumstances where we might start an early war with KISS even if they let us have spices? For example, if they put a town or 2 on the southern portion of the jungle because they &#8220;were almost out of room in their territory&#8221; would we grit our teeth and wait until the other continent was under control before turning on them, or would we strike early despite the fact they let us have the spices?

Good question. That is precisely why I was rereading the Territorial Treaty thread yesterday.

We need to work out with KISS, in a written way, where it is okay to settle and where it isn't. If they violate the treaty, we'd need to exhaust every possible diplomatic action before taking the city to the sword. And if it came to that, I would advocate only taking those cities south of whatever border had been agreed upon.

My own views on the border - Jungle is up for grabs, but they cannot put a town on any tile within the southernmost two jungle or swamp tiles. In case that's not clear: A band two tiles wide running across the southern swamps and jungles is off limits to KISS; likewise that same band across the northern jungles and swamps would be off limits to us.

Basically, I think we should do everything we can to remain partners with KISS. If we can find a peaceful way to work through the settlement phase of the game MIA will be much stronger than if we wind up at war with KISS.

peter grimes said:

If we can find a peaceful way to work through the settlement phase of the game MIA will be much stronger than if we wind up at war with KISS.

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This is precisely why I become such a warmonger over the spice issue.
If KISS has 5 luxuries to our 3 &#8211; no amount of diplomacy genius will save us from losing to our "friends" the KISS idiots.

We all agree that the BEST thing is for diplomats over in the Foreign department to work out a deal where we get what we need and KISS doesn&#8217;t totally take advantage of us. I'd love to see us get the spices peacefully &#8211; AND a treaty keeping them from the southern edge of the jungle.

But these are issues for the Foreign ministry to handle.

The real question for the future Defense minister is: if the diplomacy breaks down, what will we do about it?

I'm saying that I would view losing the spices &#8211; (@chamnix or finding KISS settlements south of the jungle) as a "breakdown" in diplomacy.

War is not a good option &#8211; but it is BETTER than a peace where we lose out on luxuries and KISS controls over 3/4 of our continent.

Well put, General_W. I now understand why you have come across as a war monger: It is actually YOU who is receiving back-room campaign donations from the ironworkers in Meleagerville!

I also now understand that I have been missing the entire point of this discussion. By assuming that Foreign will do their utmost to curb KISS expansion, Defense must responsibly come up with alternative scenarios. That way, if things don't go well with diplomacy MIA still has options.

With this new perspective on the issue, it does change my stance a bit.

Foreign must be able to have a verifiable force to back up its threats. If the diplomat tells KISS: "We must have control over the spices. This actually is a pretty big deal for us, and we're not joking around." we need to be able to back that threat up. I would still only do what is necessary to control the spices, whether that means razing their city, occupying it, or sending four or five warriors to the spicecity as a sort of visible encouragement.

Likewise, if we sense that they will control 3/4 of our continent, we should try and focus our efforts on romoving their access to strategic or luxury resources. If they don't have dyes, or spices, or incense, maybe they will be more likely to sue for peace. Of course, they may just become more determined to win them back. That's where our Hoplites will help gain us an advantage.

With this mudslinging, I am sliding to vote for abstain. I cant see a canidate stoop so low .

I have to vote for for Se&#241;or W. Nothing personal against Peter G; but General W is much more pat to be a minister as he can open the save.

I vote for the one that gives some guards for the RNG holy place.

@CivGeneral - When you read these mudslinging posts I really hope you are laughing as much as General_W and I are... I've honestly never laughed so much in this game yet, and no matter the outcome, I know I'm having a ball!

@Azzaman333 - I don't really know anything about General_W's stance on the Meleet vs. the RNG, but you can see quite clearly that I donate substantially to the treasury of the RNG Enlightenment Center.

CivGeneral said:

With this mudslinging, I am sliding to vote for abstain. I cant see a canidate stoop so low .

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Are you kidding? I'm getting out the popcorn!

Now for the candidates... If the Randiovatican was to, shall we say, randomly succeed, what would you do?

Is that question even Logical?......

Maybe you meant to ask "What woudl you do if the Randovatican were to randomly secede?"

I would wake up in the morning, like I do every day, and read the newspapers while eating breakfast. Then I would walk to work, just like I do everyday, and buy my coffee from the place I get my coffee from. Then I would leave little notes by the subway entrances letting people know how they could learn more about the beauty of the Random Number Generator, and how just a few simple mathematical rules can give rise to such seeming diversity and purpose.

Then I'd go back to my hobby of digging up dirt about General_W's extortion ring.

I vote for poor little Cindy ... and an ambutee mother with a phantom leg pain

It is scandalous that an ex-President would get caught substituting good horse meat with deliceous doggie treats ... the behaviour of a philistine (sorry another Foreign Department In-joke)

May the bestest win

At least Peter Grimes has taste ... we've shared puppy patties often

This poll is about to close - it'd be a shame if your forgot to vote after all the mudslinging!!

This one is coming down to the wire!

Technically, isn't it already over? I'm a little confused - the constitution says the poll must last at least 48 hours, but preferably for 72. It also says that the next term starts when turn x(20) ends. We are done with turn 60, so I think that automatically closes the polls.

Other readings?

Upto Team Captain ...

Never the less an interesting question ... I'd say to make things easier close in 6 hours ...

But technically if turn speeds around then it would close when we receive turn 61 ... and be opened by the new president.