Master Kodama
Nitpicker
It struck me awhile back that the different unit combat types (Archery Units, Melee Units, Mounted Units, etc.) are not quite diverse enough to simulate realistic combat, particularly in the Ancient/Classical through the Medieval ages, and I've finally decided to post on the subject.
For instance, units that fight in a tight formation (Spearman, Pikeman) should be strong, particularly against a frontal charge, but should be susceptible to flanking. After all, the Roman Legion wasn't completely immune to this tactic even with their otherwise highly effective formations. However, this flanking/formation combat is not modeled in the game even by combat bonuses.
Proposal the First: Melee Units should be split into two categories. Axemen, Swordsmen, and Macemen would remain Melee Units, while Spearmen and Pikemen (and probably Praetorians, renamed to Legionary/Legionnaire) would be a part of the UNITCOMBAT_FORMATION grouping and be "Formation Units." The different categories would be something akin to light and heavy infantry respectively, but I think the names "Melee Units" and "Formation Units" better describes their functioning. What would this change do exactly? Well, while Formation Units would have increased strength from vanilla civ, certain units that are good at flanking would then get a bonus vs. Formation Units. Which brings me to the second part of my proposal.
Proposal the Second: Mounted Units should be divided into two groups, Light Mounted Units and Heavy Mounted Units. Light Mounted Units would be primarily those mounted units effective at flanking (Horse Archers), and would gain bonuses against formation units, while Heavy Mounted Units, charging "frontal assault" type cavalry (Knights), would be powerful but have a distinct disadvantage against Formation Units much like in the default game.
In order for the Spearman to have an era-appropriate opponent to pit it's cavarly-killing powers against (besides weakling Chariots), the unused Companion unit should probably be implemented as an Ancient/Classical age Heavy Mounted Unit. I was thinking that this "Horseman" could come with horseback riding, and the Horse Archer could come with a new Classical tech, Stirrup, but this set-up could be the opposite if people think it would be better and/or more historically sound.
Also, the IMHO now completely useless "Flanking" promotion could be changed to a +25% vs. Formation Units bonus promotion, and would be available to a wider range of units. A similar promotion that gave a bonus vs. Light Mounted Units would have to be implemented (but what to call it??).
This would be the relative break-down of the new unit combat types:
Melee Units: Axeman, Swordsman, Maceman
Formation Units: Spearman, Pikeman, Legion
Light Mounted Units (flanking): Horse Archer, Cavalry
Heavy Mounted Units (assault): Chariot, "Horseman," Knight
In theory, this is not a difficult mod. In fact, I plan to make this mod myself. The reason I'm posting is because there are still a lot of questions about how to handle certain things. Balancing the units properly is going to be a key issue. One example: Formation UUs which replace Melee Units, such as the Legion/Praetorian, could possibly cause balance problems.
A pretty massive re-tooling of the units, Ancient through Medieval and probably Renaissance, would be needed. Things would work out best if more units were added to the to the game, like a Line Infantry unit or "Lineman" (is this even an appropriate name?), and a Lancer unit (for Renaissance Heavy Mounted Unit, if it makes historical sense in that category).
One question is, should I make Musketmen (and Line Infantry if they're included) into Formation Units to give Cavalry more use as flanking units and better simulate combat? Or maybe make a new "Gunpowder Formation" group? I think the latter makes the most sense, but I feel like I'm splitting enough hairs as it is
.
To any unit-skinners interested in this potential project: I would greatly appreciate a re-skin of the Immortal that made it into a generic Lancer unit. If you want to get an idea of what I mean, d/l and take a look at Frontbrecher's "Lost Units Mod" in the Completed Mods subforum -- specifically the reskin of the Cossack to be a generic Cavalry unit. Something along those lines would be greatly appreciated by myself and no doubt the rest of the modding community. While I'm mentioning it, re-skin of the Immortal or Keshik to make it into a Sipahi (replaces Lancer) would be excellent too, for those who'd like to have the Turks in their game
.
Anyway, sorry this description is so bloody frickin' long
. Any suggestions?
For instance, units that fight in a tight formation (Spearman, Pikeman) should be strong, particularly against a frontal charge, but should be susceptible to flanking. After all, the Roman Legion wasn't completely immune to this tactic even with their otherwise highly effective formations. However, this flanking/formation combat is not modeled in the game even by combat bonuses.
Proposal the First: Melee Units should be split into two categories. Axemen, Swordsmen, and Macemen would remain Melee Units, while Spearmen and Pikemen (and probably Praetorians, renamed to Legionary/Legionnaire) would be a part of the UNITCOMBAT_FORMATION grouping and be "Formation Units." The different categories would be something akin to light and heavy infantry respectively, but I think the names "Melee Units" and "Formation Units" better describes their functioning. What would this change do exactly? Well, while Formation Units would have increased strength from vanilla civ, certain units that are good at flanking would then get a bonus vs. Formation Units. Which brings me to the second part of my proposal.
Proposal the Second: Mounted Units should be divided into two groups, Light Mounted Units and Heavy Mounted Units. Light Mounted Units would be primarily those mounted units effective at flanking (Horse Archers), and would gain bonuses against formation units, while Heavy Mounted Units, charging "frontal assault" type cavalry (Knights), would be powerful but have a distinct disadvantage against Formation Units much like in the default game.
In order for the Spearman to have an era-appropriate opponent to pit it's cavarly-killing powers against (besides weakling Chariots), the unused Companion unit should probably be implemented as an Ancient/Classical age Heavy Mounted Unit. I was thinking that this "Horseman" could come with horseback riding, and the Horse Archer could come with a new Classical tech, Stirrup, but this set-up could be the opposite if people think it would be better and/or more historically sound.
Also, the IMHO now completely useless "Flanking" promotion could be changed to a +25% vs. Formation Units bonus promotion, and would be available to a wider range of units. A similar promotion that gave a bonus vs. Light Mounted Units would have to be implemented (but what to call it??).
This would be the relative break-down of the new unit combat types:
Melee Units: Axeman, Swordsman, Maceman
Formation Units: Spearman, Pikeman, Legion
Light Mounted Units (flanking): Horse Archer, Cavalry
Heavy Mounted Units (assault): Chariot, "Horseman," Knight
In theory, this is not a difficult mod. In fact, I plan to make this mod myself. The reason I'm posting is because there are still a lot of questions about how to handle certain things. Balancing the units properly is going to be a key issue. One example: Formation UUs which replace Melee Units, such as the Legion/Praetorian, could possibly cause balance problems.
A pretty massive re-tooling of the units, Ancient through Medieval and probably Renaissance, would be needed. Things would work out best if more units were added to the to the game, like a Line Infantry unit or "Lineman" (is this even an appropriate name?), and a Lancer unit (for Renaissance Heavy Mounted Unit, if it makes historical sense in that category).
One question is, should I make Musketmen (and Line Infantry if they're included) into Formation Units to give Cavalry more use as flanking units and better simulate combat? Or maybe make a new "Gunpowder Formation" group? I think the latter makes the most sense, but I feel like I'm splitting enough hairs as it is
.To any unit-skinners interested in this potential project: I would greatly appreciate a re-skin of the Immortal that made it into a generic Lancer unit. If you want to get an idea of what I mean, d/l and take a look at Frontbrecher's "Lost Units Mod" in the Completed Mods subforum -- specifically the reskin of the Cossack to be a generic Cavalry unit. Something along those lines would be greatly appreciated by myself and no doubt the rest of the modding community. While I'm mentioning it, re-skin of the Immortal or Keshik to make it into a Sipahi (replaces Lancer) would be excellent too, for those who'd like to have the Turks in their game
.Anyway, sorry this description is so bloody frickin' long
. Any suggestions?
This is exactly what I thought when I first saw this. How stupid.
. This is an extreme example, but my point is that ALL combat bonuses are based on how a unit has been used historically and/or should be used in combat. This is, IMHO, the best way to model things like flanking until the SDK comes along and someone with a lot more creative and coding prowess than me decides to create some wholly different and new way.
), this problem could be solved by having distinctly different formations and/or number of sub-units for the regular and more advanced spearmen. All I would need is for someone to help explain how formations work in the xml files. 
